The Truth About Sikhs And Caste In India (video)

[HSD*^]

Exactly. Joint gurudwara committees, refusing to give surnames if you think someone wants to know your caste, intermarriage, refusing to help or encourage discriminatory acts etc is the way to start. i also think that each village in the punjab should be looked at and local solutions found to overcome caste issues.

at the same time, we need to be aware and watchful of any attempts by outsiders to instigate divides in the panth.

[BiggChan]

Where is the location of the Gurudwara in the village?

[dalsingh101]

Of course you are right - racism/casteism will take different forms in different environments depending on demographics.

But with the Sikh community comprising mainly of people from Punjab, we need to look in our own backyard first (and this of course goes beyond just Jatts, but for all 'castes'/groups which comprise the Sikh community).

Moreover, if you really want to go back to the root of it all, blame Rishi Manu, author of the Manu Smitri! (and yes, he would most likely be a Brahmin)

Try the link now:

http://www.india-seminar.com/2001/508/508%...s.%20jodhka.htm

Is this just scape goating Bahmans for crappy Sikh practices today? Does a Bahman put a gun to a Jatts head and say - think of yourself better than the rest of the Sikhs - or else!

[HSD*^]

do musis put guns to sikh girls heads when they convert? making people do things does not involve guns, knives and force. i'm also not saying that there are a bunch of brahmins behind the scenes, plotting the caste problems in punjab. but those in power over there dont want to see the status quo upset.

its not about blame. but this isnt a one-dimensional problem, with a single cause and a single solution. forcing one bunch of people to shoulder all the blame will only alienate them and entrench any stupid beliefs they have.

[dalsingh101]

True HSD.

But being in denial about the kind of people who are the bulk of the problem doesn't help in any way either.

Plainly we can't blame Bahamns. Culturally they have no influence on Panjabi culture now (and haven't for quite a while).

It is Jatt supremacism that is tearing the panth apart right now. We have to face that. And you are right in that is boils down to preserving status quo back home and a reluctance to promote equality as a result.

[HSD*^]

i see what you mean, but blaming people wont get them to change. i get a lot of looks when i'm out from white people, and one old lady once blamed me for all the problems britain faces. now they can go on all they want, and even if i was responsible for all the problems in this country, then i doubt being whined at will change things.

if we want to stop casteism, we need to sideline or engage the jatt sikhs who encourage this behaviour. also with the points i made in #31, we need to get other castes to stop doing similar things. yes, jatts are the biggest group, and they have the furthest to go, but they wont be alone.

[dalsingh101]

I see what you mean HSD but I think the numbers of the others is relatively insignificant. Once we get the bulk to do it, the others will fall in line. Plus the fact that the entrenched majority are changing will have a pervasive effect on the WHOLE panth.

Truth is, I've only met one caste who I would describe as obsessed with their caste and have an ingrained negative mentality towards others. Some other castes do it but it is not a central plank of their identity and often the reult of the majorities actions.

Make sense?

[HSD*^]

but my point is that blaming doesnt change anyone. either sideline their actions by reducing the power and influence they have and replace it with fairer practices/people, or engage with them and convince them that what they are doing is wrong and they would be better off doing the right thing. blaming them wont work apart from give them little incentive to change what they grew up with. lets be reasonable with real world solutions rather than fighting over the moral high ground.

[dalsingh101]

but my point is that blaming doesnt change anyone. either sideline their actions by reducing the power and influence they have and replace it with fairer practices/people, or engage with them and convince them that what they are doing is wrong and they would be better off doing the right thing. blaming them wont work apart from give them little incentive to change what they grew up with. lets be reasonable with real world solutions rather than fighting over the moral high ground.

Thing is, change must be intrinsic. No one is saying not to engage. Thing is, financially they may not be better off with change. How do you sell this to the money/status obsessed?

All I know is that if things continue as they are, we will be in even more serious trouble than we are now.

What do you suggest?

[HSD*^]

How do you sell this to the money/status obsessed?

well if persuasion doesnt work, these people can be replaced. gurudwaras change hands. the old get older and a new generation replaces them (who hopefully were raised better and not influenced by their parents - which is unlikely).

heavier action may be needed. but i doubt that the lawmakers over there have real social equality as an ideal to strive for. with khalistan we could hand out prison sentences for caste-discrimination. that would stop the ones who think caste is so important.

i'm sure those who have suffered caste discrimination could come up with even more relevant counter measures.