Serious Question : Virtual Naked Jhoora's On Kids

[Singh 'n ting]

This is a serious question. I sincerely hope none of you take it as muck raking or trouble making. The issue is about bhatra sikhs and the way they don't put a white (or any other colour) rumahal over their kids joohra....but instead put a thin black see-thru one on so to the naked eye it looks like their is no hair covering.

My sister lives in Southampton so we visit there often. When we do, mum who is amritdhari, gets very irate and vexed when she sees the bhatra sikhs. My mum sometimes walks my nephew to school, and in the same class are many bhatra sikh children. Practically all the bhatra boys, like my nephew has a joohra.It makes my mums blood boil however, the way that the bhatra parents never ever put a white rumahal over their kids joohra. They only put a thin black net over the joohra that is only visible to the naked eye when observed close up. The bhatre feel the white rumahal is sooo pendu.

In my mums eyes, this is making a mockery of the joohra. If you wanna go to the lengths of hiding the covering of the hair then whats the point of keeping the joohra in the first place. My mum feels that what they are saying is ' yes we know the hair should be covered but we think it looks silly and backward so we're gonna go through the effort of giving it the illusion of being uncovered'.

Theres hardly any bhatre in places around here in west London but in places like Southampton, Portsmouth, Bristol etc they make up at least half the sikh population and frankly even I do find it a bit upsetting, if not confrontational.

What do you guys think?

Is my mum right to get angry whenever she sees this?

[DSH]

What a pointless topic!!!

[Mahakal]

Not pointless at all, if bhaji wanted to talk about it then let him. I understand your mums anger, but maybe she should let slide and do ardas that they get wisdom to sort it. If they were to visit any Gurdwara in India they would be asked to cover their heads with a patka, as even a joora with even a white ramal is not really allowed as the sevadars do not see it as a covered head.

[Singh 'n ting]

The topic is not quite as pointless as DSH, but then again very little is.

It could be because many of you are kids yourselves so have not given any thought to what your children and your childrens peers might or might not do.

I married a year and a half ago and we are expecting our first baby in August (its gonna be a boy)...and so obviously it is important to me that my child doesn't copy the bhatra way and go to school with a 'virtual' nanga sirh.

And thats simply the point I was making here. Its obviously gone over most of your heads but I personally feel it is wrong that a large section of British Sikhs (the bhatras) are sending their kids to school etc with nanga sirh...virtually. My mother is absolutely right to find it insulting.

Also........and this is only connected loosely.....but whenever she has got talking to the grandmothers of the bhatra sikh kids in my nephews school, she has found that many of the grandmothers have names such as 'Kamla Devi' or Sunita Rani'. She found that it is common for many of the male bhatra folks from Britain to go back to Delhi to marry, and when there, they inter marry with suitable hindus. They have told her this themselves, while covered in gypsy ghold regalia and rings through their noses. I know people here love jatt bashing....but I think its worth noting how the chamars classify themselves as hindus....the bhatras regularly marry Kamla Devi's...and the khatri and Arora sikhs here in west London via Afghanistan marry their first cousins.

[Gurbar Akaal]

Its all about the white ramal with flower embroidery :cool:

[singh763173]

The topic is not quite as pointless as DSH, but then again very little is.

It could be because many of you are kids yourselves so have not given any thought to what your children and your childrens peers might or might not do.

I married a year and a half ago and we are expecting our first baby in August (its gonna be a boy)...and so obviously it is important to me that my child doesn't copy the bhatra way and go to school with a 'virtual' nanga sirh.

And thats simply the point I was making here. Its obviously gone over most of your heads but I personally feel it is wrong that a large section of British Sikhs (the bhatras) are sending their kids to school etc with nanga sirh...virtually. My mother is absolutely right to find it insulting.

Also........and this is only connected loosely.....but whenever she has got talking to the grandmothers of the bhatra sikh kids in my nephews school, she has found that many of the grandmothers have names such as 'Kamla Devi' or Sunita Rani'. She found that it is common for many of the male bhatra folks from Britain to go back to Delhi to marry, and when there, they inter marry with suitable hindus. They have told her this themselves, while covered in gypsy ghold regalia and rings through their noses. I know people here love jatt bashing....but I think its worth noting how the chamars classify themselves as hindus....the bhatras regularly marry Kamla Devi's...and the khatri and Arora sikhs here in west London via Afghanistan marry their first cousins.

Firstly, you state your asking whether its right or not for your mum to be angry, and then you answer your own question "My Mother is absolutely right to find it insulting"

Bhatre dont openly get married to "suitable hindus", no matter what these select few say, its an incorrect stereotype. And yes i do know.

All this could easily be resolved if we all looked past caste. Theres no ekta within the panth and its all because of caste. Your mum could easily go to the parents of these kids and explain to them this issue... that way she wouldnt need to have her "blood boil".

[saint-soldier]

that little rumaal on the jhora looks bloody stupid, even if a 7 year old has it. i have never seen the net thing which you are talking about but it sounds just as stupid as covering your jhoora with rumaal. and as akal sehna said, no matter how old the kid is, if he has that little rumaal on the jhoora then sevadaars will tell the parents to cover the head with a patka in a gurudwara sahib, so using rumaal isnt really covering the head. if some people think white rumaal is pendu then its about time, but that net thing sounds even more pendu lol.

tying a malaysian style patka is the best. thats the only style that dosnt look stupid to me when it comes to patke.

[Singh 'n ting]

Right, its sorted then.

Nanga sirh is OK and we should put patke on 3 year olds in pre-school (coz thats how old my nephew and his bhatra peers are)

Happy days. I no longer need to fret about my soon to be born munda. No need to spend money on rumahals either. We'll follow all ths advice given here and leave his head bare whenever we go out.....we'll marry him off to some Kamla Devi, who I'll make sure covers her face when I'm around.....We'll pull our grandaughter out of school at the age of 15 and marry her off so she can weigh herself down with gold jewellery....and if my son can't find a job we'll send him off to Hong Kong where he can happily embarrass sikhs by harrassing tourists for money by reading their palms / telling their fortune.

Thanks for your help guys. I'm gonna save a small fortune in rumahals now and in these troubled credit crunch times thats no mean feat.

[singh763173]

Right, its sorted then.

Nanga sirh is OK and we should put patke on 3 year olds in pre-school (coz thats how old my nephew and his bhatra peers are)

Happy days. I no longer need to fret about my soon to be born munda. No need to spend money on rumahals either. We'll follow all ths advice given here and leave his head bare whenever we go out.....we'll marry him off to some Kamla Devi, who I'll make sure covers her face when I'm around.....We'll pull our grandaughter out of school at the age of 15 and marry her off so she can weigh herself down with gold jewellery....and if my son can't find a job we'll send him off to Hong Kong where he can happily embarrass sikhs by harrassing tourists for money by reading their palms / telling their fortune.

Thanks for your help guys. I'm gonna save a small fortune in rumahals now and in these troubled credit crunch times thats no mean feat.

I dont know about you, but i didnt see anyone saying this in this thread.

[saint-soldier]

huh? serious case of reading too much into things there singh n ting. malaysian style patka arent hard to tie, all you have to do is tie a knot at the back and its done...... and it looks good too plus it covers the head, which both the rumaal on joora and that net thing fails to do.

btw if you are worried about nanga sirh then how come you are so keen on that rumaal on joora? it isnt really covering the head.