Concentration While Meditating

[Matheen]

IF you insist there was no breakage in the lineage then who took over the Jatha after Shaheed Baba Gurbax SIngh Ji and all the other Singhs of Jatha became Shaheed??

Baba Soorat Singh Ji, who at a young age received Amrit Di Daat from the hands of Guru Gobind Singh Ji themselves. They then became a student of Baba Deep Singh Ji and Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji Shaheed.

Baba Deep Singh Ji controlled the faujan before the split into 2 Dals. All were Nihang Singhs, and apart from a few small differences, Maryada of all original sampardas is very similar and backed up by Guru Ji's writings in Sri Dasam Granth and Sri Sarbloh Granth.

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

IF you insist there was no breakage in the lineage then who took over the Jatha after Shaheed Baba Gurbax SIngh Ji and all the other Singhs of Jatha became Shaheed??

Baba Soorat Singh Ji, who at a young age received Amrit Di Daat from the hands of Guru Gobind Singh Ji themselves. They then became a student of Baba Deep Singh Ji and Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji Shaheed.

Baba Deep Singh Ji controlled the faujan before the split into 2 Dals. All were Nihang Singhs, and apart from a few small differences, Maryada of all original sampardas is very similar and backed up by Guru Ji's writings in Sri Dasam Granth and Sri Sarbloh Granth.

Thats interesting. I have never heard much information about Bhai Soorat SIngh comapred to the hearings of Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Mani Singh, and Bhai Gurbax Singh. Exactly who is Bhai Soorat Singh? What year was he born?. WHen and were did he lead the Taksal?. Was this in a jungle. Did he eventually become Shaheed? What books has he written? Where was he at when Shaheed Bhai Gurbax Singh Ji became shaheed.

Are you saying all orignial Taksalis were Nihangs. I will agree with this statement. On the same note I will say that the modern Nihangs are not the same Nihangs of the past. I doubt Nihangs of the past drank liquoir, and stood around when injustice and disrespect of Gurdwra Sahibs were taking place.

[Matheen]

Are you saying all orignial Taksalis were Nihangs.....

No, I didn't say that, my previous post is a bit unclear. There was the Khalsa Fauj, and it just happened that the Jathedar of the fauj at that time was also the jathedar of the Taksal. You can still be part of the taksal and be a soldier as well.

Even after the formation of the Buddha and Taruna Dals, Singhs were sent to Taksals to study, or the Taksal would come to them. This still goes on - there is a video on Youtube where the head of the Boparai Taksal explains these links.

Anyway, this is a bit off-topic and was just to counter your post. The crux of the matter is that none of the Sampardas with unbroken links to Guru Ji's era have anything resembling the modern method of 'naam dhrirr' that the AKJ use, or change the kakkars.

Do the AKJ recommend that people who have received Amrit from other places go pesh before an AKJ panj?

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

Are you saying all orignial Taksalis were Nihangs.....

No, I didn't say that, my previous post is a bit unclear. There was the Khalsa Fauj, and it just happened that the Jathedar of the fauj at that time was also the jathedar of the Taksal. You can still be part of the taksal and be a soldier as well.

Even after the formation of the Buddha and Taruna Dals, Singhs were sent to Taksals to study, or the Taksal would come to them. This still goes on - there is a video on Youtube where the head of the Boparai Taksal explains these links.

Anyway, this is a bit off-topic and was just to counter your post. The crux of the matter is that none of the Sampardas with unbroken links to Guru Ji's era have anything resembling the modern method of 'naam dhrirr' that the AKJ use, or change the kakkars.

Do the AKJ recommend that people who have received Amrit from other places go pesh before an AKJ panj?

Please forgive me if I sound rude when I say this but I could care less about which people think they belong to a group who have linkage to GUru Sahib. Lol Khalsa is the only group Guru Ji recognizes and that is the end of the story. There is no reason for you to counter anything I say. Im not writing for the sake of argument. Im just stating that no one group has authoirty to say what is True Sikhi. All groups have reformed because its a plain fact that Hinduism has crept into SIkhi in the past. Again Im not into this desiIsm which people are bonded to their groups. I am only into sprituality and these matters are very small. I only commetted for those who insist that AKJ is a modern Jatha and therefore have no understandings of Gurmat. People who are making these claims do not know Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji and his relationship with GUru Sahib.

"Do the AKJ recommend that people who have received Amrit from other places go pesh before an AKJ panj?"

I dont understand what you are trying to state or do. Amrit is Amrit which is given by Panj Pyaarey. There is no such things as speical AKJ Amrit. If people want Naam Drir they dont need to take Amrit again they just go for Naam Drir. Again I dont want to waste my time with this Jatha politics, I just want to state the clear facts that no one group has an authority to claim they are the custodians of Tat Gurmat it doesnt matter how old the group is if anything the older groups have more influence by hinduism.

[satpunga singh]

just go to buddha dal of tarna dal. then no one argues.

[SunSingh]

In regards to Sant Baba Nihal Singh Ji I highly doubt that Baba Ji said Naam Dhrir is not required. Could you provide Katha recording in which he says this.

I've heard baba ji say this myself. No, I don't have a katha recording.

I myself have seen Baba Ji doing Swas Swas Naam Simran the same way the Jatha does.

It's very un-Sikh like of you to use these cheap argument tactics ji. You yourself said Naam dhrir is different from the jugti (technique) of swas swas simran. Now you're trying to pretend the two are the same to confuse people into thinking that a sampradic sant beleives in AKJ naam dhrir. You may be able to trick some with these underhanded tactics, but I think most are too smart to fall for that. Swas swas simran is a common technique, many use it. It is not only AKJ that promote it.

At the end of the day we shouldnt be attached to any group. If we have sangat of other Singhs this is a great blessing which we should be thankful for. We should enjoy moment with the sangat but there should no attachments/affiliations with certain groups. At the end of the day nobody can go with us. Those Gurmukhs we meet along the way will help along but not everyone belonging to a jatha isa Gurmukh. I have no doubts that reformers like Baba Nand Singh Ji , Baba Sunder SIngh Ji, and Bhai SaHIB BhaI Randhir Singh had great understaning of Gurmat. At the same time I have no doubts that a majority of the people who belong to their jathas could care less about Gurmat. They like to join this group or that group for the sake of joining groups and bashing other groups. Its more about territory and less about truth. They are engrossed in wordliness and modernism/maya and can careless about the Panth and Gurmat.The Goal should be to worship Guru Granth and serve Guru Panth we shouldnt let affilations to certain groups make us so ignorant that we talk down on other groups and say they are not puratan or have no understanding of Gurmat traditions.

If you truly believed this, then you would not use underhanded argument tactics to try to promote your jatha's beliefs. Instead, you would be honest and straightforward in discussions in an attempt to discover the truth.

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

In regards to Sant Baba Nihal Singh Ji I highly doubt that Baba Ji said Naam Dhrir is not required. Could you provide Katha recording in which he says this.

I've heard baba ji say this myself. No, I don't have a katha recording.

I myself have seen Baba Ji doing Swas Swas Naam Simran the same way the Jatha does.

It's very un-Sikh like of you to use these cheap argument tactics ji. You yourself said Naam dhrir is different from the jugti (technique) of swas swas simran. Now you're trying to pretend the two are the same to confuse people into thinking that a sampradic sant beleives in AKJ naam dhrir. You may be able to trick some with these underhanded tactics, but I think most are too smart to fall for that. Swas swas simran is a common technique, many use it. It is not only AKJ that promote it.

At the end of the day we shouldnt be attached to any group. If we have sangat of other Singhs this is a great blessing which we should be thankful for. We should enjoy moment with the sangat but there should no attachments/affiliations with certain groups. At the end of the day nobody can go with us. Those Gurmukhs we meet along the way will help along but not everyone belonging to a jatha isa Gurmukh. I have no doubts that reformers like Baba Nand Singh Ji , Baba Sunder SIngh Ji, and Bhai SaHIB BhaI Randhir Singh had great understaning of Gurmat. At the same time I have no doubts that a majority of the people who belong to their jathas could care less about Gurmat. They like to join this group or that group for the sake of joining groups and bashing other groups. Its more about territory and less about truth. They are engrossed in wordliness and modernism/maya and can careless about the Panth and Gurmat.The Goal should be to worship Guru Granth and serve Guru Panth we shouldnt let affilations to certain groups make us so ignorant that we talk down on other groups and say they are not puratan or have no understanding of Gurmat traditions.

If you truly believed this, then you would not use underhanded argument tactics to try to promote your jatha's beliefs. Instead, you would be honest and straightforward in discussions in an attempt to discover the truth.

In regards to Swas Swas Naam SImran and Naam Drir I have already explainned in a previous post that Naam Drir is an aide to Swas Swas Naam Simran therefore why would BaBa Ji talk down on it. He has sangat of AKJ Singhs and im sure he knows the advantages of it. If he personally told you Naam Drir is not important then please tell me your name so we can ask him next time he comes. Please do not make things up about a Saint just to win an arguement.

Im not the one using Jatha-like tactics. I have cleary stated im not into Jathas nor do I want to keep talking about them. You yourself keep mentioning all these different people and Jathas to denounce Naam Drir and talk down on the AKJ. I have given you numeous pangtis supporting the USe of Naam Drir given by Guru Ji yet you have not addressed any of them. I am more concerned about doing GUrbani Veechar, Im not into this Desi mentality about my Baba said this or my Jatha said this. This thread is about concentration while meditating so Lets do Gurbani Veechar.

Could you please do arth of this pangti please.

rI klvwir gvwir mUF miq aulto pvnu iPrwvau ]

ree kalavaar gavaar moodt math oulatto pavan firaavo ||

You barbaric brute, with your primitive intellect - reverse your breath and turn it inward.

mnu mqvwr myr sr BwTI AMimRq Dwr cuAwvau ]1]

man mathavaar maer sar bhaat(h)ee a(n)mrith dhhaar chuaavo ||1||

Let your mind be intoxicated with the stream of Ambrosial Nectar which trickles down from the furnace of the Tenth Gate. ||1||

Explain to us how is the breath reversed, who does this.

ALso whom or what is a brute/fool?

Is Guru Ji giving instructions? If yes to whom?

How does the intellect become foolish?

Thanks

If you and Matheen can address these questions then I will happy to respond back. But if you want to keep talking about Sampradas and other non- related things Im not going to waste my time. I have already stated that sampradas or old groups claining linkage to GUru Ji have been corrupt. Take the Nihangs of Hazoor Sahib for examlple. They claim they follow Puratan Maryada because there Jatha has been in existent since Guru Sahibs time. yet they do Aarti and all kinds of hindu customs?? that explains what im talking about. Again I Dont want to keep talking about these things over and over. I have no attachments to any Jatha or Baba. I only like to follow Gurmat according to Gurmat. SO if you want to do Gurbani Veechar then we can do that otherwise dont waste my time by mentioning what other people or groups say. ALso dont make up things about Baba Nihal Singh Ji.

thanks

[Akal Ustat]

I think it would be good to sort out the difference of what is meant by naam dridh and what is meant by swas swas simran. Some people use the terms interchangeably which causes confusion.

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

I think it would be good to sort out the difference of what is meant by naam dridh and what is meant by swas swas simran. Some people use the terms interchangeably which causes confusion.

Swas swas naam simran is the method on how to Jaap Naam by Panj Pyaarey. Naam Dhrir is when the blessed hands ( Guru Jis hands) of Panj Pyaarey gives Naam Dhrir to the Abhilakhi. This method cannot be denyed. It is mentioned in Gurmat.

siqgurU DMnu nwnku msqik qum DirE ijin hQo ]

sathiguroo dhha(n)n naanak masathak thum dhhariou jin hathho ||

Blessed is the True Guru Nanak, who placed His hand upon Your forehead.

q DirE msqik hQu shij Aimau vuTau Cij suir nr gx muin boihX Agwij ]

th dhhariou masathak hathh sehaj amio vut(h)o shhaj sur nar gan mun bohiy agaaj ||

When He placed His hand upon Your forehead, then the celestial nectar began to rain down in torrents; the gods and human beings, heavenly heralds and sages were drenched in its fragrance.

so hir jpY ijsu gur msqik hwQu ]

so har japai jis gur masathak haathh ||

He alone meditates on the Lord, upon whose forehead the Guru places His hand.

Atl bcnu nwnk gur qyrw sPl kru msqik DwirAw ]2]21]49]

attal bachan naanak gur thaeraa safal kar masathak dhhaariaa ||2||21||49||

Your Word is eternal, O Guru Nanak; You placed Your Hand of blessing upon my forehead. ||2||21||49||

It is apparent that Naam Drir has been in vogue since Pehli Paatshah. Guru Ji would place his hands on the devotee head and automatically swas swas Naam Simran would happen. This ability can only happen by Satguru Ji know other person has the ability to do so. So it is clear that GUru Ji instills Naam and the devootee is taught how to recite naam.

[Matheen]

Baba Nihal Singh Ji does NOT believe Naam Dhrir to be necessary, or the Taruna Dal Amrit Sanchars would incorporate it. They will hold Amrit Sanchars in Canada this year, so you can ask them yourself.

You claim not to be aa jatha follower yet you blindly follow Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji's views even when they contradict Dasam Bani - i.e. Kesh as Kakkar or historical texts stating the importance of Raag Mala.

Do you know what the word "Dhrir" means? None of those Panktis support your views, they have nothing to do with the akj concept, even if you're going by the translations.

Regarding the Pankti by Bhagat Kabir Ji, from Ang 1123, a few lines down he states:

nagaree eaekai no dharavaajae dhhaavath baraj rehaaee ||

There is one body with 9 doors, keep the mind within them.

thrikuttee shhoottai dhasavaa dhar khoolhai thaa man kheevaa bhaaee ||3||

When the trikuti is left behind, and the Tenth Gate opens up, then the mind experiences true bliss, my brothers. ||3||

The brute is the mind, in preceeding panktis, Bhagat Ji talks about the futility of maya etc, and in your quoted line, they instruct us to turn inward rather than outward - i.e. to seek God within ourselves. The lines after that one cement that view by explaining that the 9 gates to the body must be closed before the Dasam Duar will open - i.e. all our attention must be inside - mouth closed, eyes shut, ignore all external sounds and smells etc.

Veera, I'm not looking for an argument, contrary to what you may think. Just that when AKJers go around to other Amritdharis and start telling then they have to retake Amrit in the akj style (happens a lot around here), it makes a mockery of Guru Ji's teachings. At the end of the day, Guru Sahib states "Jin Prem Kiyo, Thin Hee Prabh Paayo".