Outrage!

[jassa]

Not that I really feel urge to contribute to this topic. But I just usually wonder that we say its ok to kill other animals and eat them, why it won't be ok to just kill other humans and eat them. Just a thought. It shouldn't be a sin to kill another human. But then we spend lives in jails for doing that. Then we are considered violent/murderer etc. etc. But no labels when we kill animals. how come? Don't animals have souls. Don't we create a sin by killing another soul. Don't we create karma by doing that to be paid off in this life or next.

As much as i know about this topic (not that I am internet sant, papi jee), God created the life on the universe. He had to create the methods of survival as well. and at the same time, had to create ways of keeping it running and population under control. he gave us certain amount of life and created lots of diseases as well. he created lot of fire, toofan, bhoochal, and some other kinds of disasters as well. its all under that vaheguru's hukam.

Now coming to Lions and goats and humans, and grass etc.

if we start from lion and go upto ant, the bigger one eats the little one and keeps going until the population stays under control and everybody helps each other survive too. And then he made some creatures only capable of consuming grass related stuff and some only flesh/blood related stuff. And we, humans are like goats, horses, who eat farm grown stuff. But there are animals like lions, cats who eat flesh of others.

As simple as that. But if we wanna fight for ages, this is one of the topic which will never end. It has been going on for ages and would go on.

The only difference, I ever see that people who don't consume, are actually close to vaheguru (waheguru is close to everyone, but only non-meat eaters are the ones who feel the connection, realize the presense of God). The meat eaters do collect lot of knowledge, so called gianies, pandits, but do they actually have a connection, that I have to see yet. Have they risen themselves above the panj dhoot, have they realized the drama of life. I have to see a sant mahapursh, brahmgiyani whom we can call that he has reached the GOD and is non-vegetarian.

in my lifetime, which is not much, I have not seen/heard about such a person, if you do know for sure, please bring to my attention. Until I know someone like that, I am assuming these people are talking in the air only, writing big books, giving long lectures etc. etc but are hollow inside.

Just my thoughts. And btw I ate meat for good part of my life, but not since taken amrit. And never justified me eating meat before. It was wrong I knew from start, but kept doing it, as I didn't have the leash of Guru Gobind Singh around my neck and I was a street dog, ate whatever saw on the street. Now, since I got leash and am pet of my Guru, I don't go for food which my Guru didn't make for me to eat. he has provided me with good amount of fruits, veggies, grains, diary products that I don't really need to indulge in other things which have been created by killing some soul. Now, people can jump on me by saying that grasss, fruits,veggies have soul in them too, May be. I don't know, but my Guru says, its made for you to survive. So I will continue to do so.

Bhenji that so true havn't heard of one brahmgiyani that ate meat or tells other's it's alright to eat meat.

the only sant who was given sant upadhi by sikh sangat at sri akal takth sahib sant baba nand singh ji ... he cook his jahtka himself and even sometimes for sangat .... and their kamai is known to word ... ki nihang ki taksal ki sant samaj ... baba nand singh ji di kammai agge sarre fikke pay jande ....

[AmarjitKaur]

Bhenji that so true havn't heard of one brahmgiyani that ate meat or tells other's it's alright to eat meat.

l

So shouldn't we then think whom should we follow.

[Only five]

Jassa ji, I can present you a case where your way of thinking will be thrown out in a second. Matter of fact, i'm do it. Take a Gursikh, there are many and take in what way these pure souls were brutually murdered. Sawed in half, cut limb from limb. We do Ardas you know. Now do we look at this and say if these GurSikhs were cut like this and they followed Guru Sahib is the same going to happen to us. So should we not follow Guru Sahib.

there is something known as shaheedi ... what are u trying to say that were victems not shaheedis ??? if they are murdered we feel sorry for them i dont know what to say ... but i m proud of bhai taru singh bhai mani singh not pity .... ur moving in very wrong direction ... and murdered is no way a word for a shahhed ... ohna ne band band kattayea sanu sikh rakhan layi ... na ke ohna da joor nahi see ... kehdech himmat see sahibjada ajit singh nu jungch maar sakda oh ess layi nahi shahhed hoye ke ohna di shaster videyach koi kami see yaa oh lad nahi sakde see ... oh taan chutkich dunia khatam kar sakde see ... u used a very bad example here very bad ....

NO man LOL, I am not saying they were murdered. You completely missed the point. The point was in the way they were martyred. In the way there body was burtually cut. Obviously there souls were pure. But the body in the eyes of a human is seen as horriblely tortured. Now just because the body was burtually tortured do we say they must have done wrong to deserve such punishment. No!

And in the context of the vaar by Bhai Gurdas ji is completely different in the way it is intrepreted as in the way you describe it. The example was to show what you were leading to. Stay in context.

[Jag_Singh]

My only concern is that if you have a problem with someone doing something, go up to them and confront them. If you don't have the guts to do that, then it's better not to say anything to others. I see a lot of people have issues with what happens at hazoor sahib, so really you need to go down there and speak against it. Making a thread on a forum, which likely no one from hazoor sahib will see is pointless and waste of time.

Agreed. This Thread is getting full of 'chugli' and 'nindiya'.....

Go and talk to the sangat who actually do it.......

[Only five]

My only concern is that if you have a problem with someone doing something, go up to them and confront them. If you don't have the guts to do that, then it's better not to say anything to others. I see a lot of people have issues with what happens at hazoor sahib, so really you need to go down there and speak against it. Making a thread on a forum, which likely no one from hazoor sahib will see is pointless and waste of time.

Am I speaking against it. Really that's what you guys got from it. i am clarifying it and what it actually is and what it destroys.

Like I said people say the Jhatka tradition is done to abolish Muslim halal ways, but I showed it didn't even touch that because....well that piece is there for everyone to read. I don't want to keep repeating it over and over.

Jhatka tradition is being used in the wrong way to justify everyday desire of the tongue.

Jhatka is permitted as a last option when every plant and leaves have been aten and nothing else is left. For survival needs. Not for the desire of the tongue. Also the knew thing, it's being done so the person gets tough by seeing blood and won't run away from war on sight of it. These foolish ways is what I'm against. Gurbani is what makes you tough and fills that body with shakti to destroy your enemy with one blow.

A Gursikh if you look at his daily meal consist of daal, salt, roti, and water. Eating simple. And leave the body building part out.

Are the Nihangs Singh running out of daal, sabzi, and roti. NO! For the tongue they perform this useless tradition. Think in context. Jhatka is useful for survival needs. And the blood being applied to the sword is just a whole topic on it's own.

Bhenji that so true havn't heard of one brahmgiyani that ate meat or tells other's it's alright to eat meat.

l

So shouldn't we then think whom should we follow.

very much

[Jag_Singh]

So you hate jhatka and Nihangs who are 'buzzing' on drugs?

i am clarifying it and what it actually is and what it destroys.

Ok. Then if you think you have found an ideal solution, why not present it to the current jathedar of Hazoor Sahib?

It's like whenever someone mentions to tell the truth openly, you back off. Do you lack money? do you want a jatha to go with you? cus clearly if you want this issue (btw the are many many many many more issues in the panth) resolved then book a ticket. Try contacting them in person. Unless both you and the sangat in hazoor sahib have skype.......then maybe.

[Only five]

So you hate jhatka and Nihangs who are 'buzzing' on drugs?

i am clarifying it and what it actually is and what it destroys.

Ok. Then if you think you have found an ideal solution, why not present it to the current jathedar of Hazoor Sahib?

It's like whenever someone mentions to tell the truth openly, you back off. Do you lack money? do you want a jatha to go with you? cus clearly if you want this issue (btw the are many many many many more issues in the panth) resolved then book a ticket. Try contacting them in person. Unless both you and the sangat in hazoor sahib have skype.......then maybe.

Hahaha

Hate Nihangs. Come on. Why would I hate Nihangs

The ones that sit there tuned on drugs all day are not Nihangs, there nangs

You don't hate the sinner, hate the sin.

This solution is know to the Nihang Singh. It has been presented, but how can you get through to a brick wall.

I have even heard one of the Jathedar's current or previous one has said what they do is wrong and in due time this practice will be put back into the right context it was prescribed.

[Jag_Singh]

Hahaha

Hate Nihangs. Come on. Why would I hate Nihangs

The ones that sit there tuned on drugs all day are not Nihangs, there nangs

You don't hate the sinner, hate the sin.

This solution is know to the Nihang Singh. It has been presented, but how can you get through to a brick wall.

I have even heard one of the Jathedar's current or previous one has said what they do is wrong and in due time this practice will be put back into the right context it was prescribed.

Interesting. You are still denying to make any approach about jhatka.....if you actually believe you are true, then go for it. Protest outside hazoor sahib, if you have a jatha, then get some wooden signs 'Animal Proctection!' 'I demand goats not to be jhatkaed, four times a year'. Unless your willing to go on your own, then I wish you the best of wishes you some back untouched.......

[TheSuperbell]

yh seen this before, but mate they been carrying this maryada on for a very long time. Changing nihangs ideology in this sense is close to impossible.

[Only five]

Hahaha

Hate Nihangs. Come on. Why would I hate Nihangs

The ones that sit there tuned on drugs all day are not Nihangs, there nangs

You don't hate the sinner, hate the sin.

This solution is know to the Nihang Singh. It has been presented, but how can you get through to a brick wall.

I have even heard one of the Jathedar's current or previous one has said what they do is wrong and in due time this practice will be put back into the right context it was prescribed.

Interesting. You are still denying to make any approach about jhatka.....if you actually believe you are true, then go for it. Protest outside hazoor sahib, if you have a jatha, then get some wooden signs 'Animal Proctection!' 'I demand goats not to be jhatkaed, four times a year'. Unless your willing to go on your own, then I wish you the best of wishes you some back untouched.......

There are ways to confront practices and stubborn people that won't let go of their ways. Storming someone is what fools do.