What Is Katha

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

Bhai Sahib's views on Katha are very much misunderstood. In his book "Katha Kirtan" he has explained the term "Katha" as it appears in Gurbani. In Gurbani, the meaning of Katha is one of the 9 meanings listed and explained later in this article.

Secondly, what Bhai Sahib has written is that doing katha of Gurbani is not kalyankaari i.e. this karma in its capacity cannot lead one to salvation as chanting of Naam and recitation of Gurbani does. It helps one to solidify one's position on the spiritual path, provided it's done by a person who is well-versed in meanings of Gurbani but just by listening to Katha one cannot get Paramgat (salvation).

On the other hand, the Akath Katha (description of the unexplainable i.e. Gurbani) of Naam and Naami Vaheguru that our Guru Sahibaan have done is such that just by listening to it and by uttering it, one gets paramgat. Similarly the Har Har Katha i.e. Naam is such that just by listening to this Har Har Katha (Naam) and by chanting it, one gets Paramgat (salvation).

Bhai Sahib has not said that one should not do meanings of Gurbani for personal understanding. Bhai Sahib was not against katha of Sooraj Prakash and other historical granths but he was of the opinion that the katha of Gurbani was not done at Gurdwara Sahibaan. He himself witnessed that in olden days the katha of Gurbani was not done at Gurdwara Sahibaan. Only Kirtan was sung or Katha of history was done.

Some people use the pankit below and preach that Katha is greatest Karma of all but they fail to understand that in Gurbani the word "Katha" is never used in the meanings of doing lectures, translating Gurbani, or doing katha of history. In Gurbani the word Katha is used in one of the 9 meanings listed later in this article.

"Sabh te utam Har kee Katha|| Naam Sunat Dard Dukh Latha||"

The next pankiti proves that "Har kee Katha" is referred to Naam here and not katha by some gyani. Dard (pain), dukh (sorrow) will go away listening to Naam roopi Katha and not katha by some gyani. How can the katha of a certified gyani be "Sabh tey uttam" i.e. greatest of all. Greatest Katha is Gurbani itself. What is Gurbani? Guru Sahibaan have done katha of Vaheguru and his Naam and his bhagats, in form of Gurbani. Gurbani is the Akath Katha of Naami Vaheguru. Then Har Har Katha i.e. Naam japna is the katha of Vaheguru that Gurmukhs do with every swaas.

To equate the katha of a mortal being with Gurbani is nothing short of blasphemy.

Bhai Sahib's last book was Katha Kirtan and this book inspires one to do more paath and Naam abhyaas. This book explains the importance and greatness of Gurbani and Naam. It rejuvenates and kindles one's faith in Gurbani and Naam.This book is about the word "katha" as it appears in Gurbani. Bhai Sahib has written that the word "Katha" appears in Gurbani in many meanings but never in the following two meanings:

1) History Katha e.g. Suraj Parkash Granth Katha etc.

2) Gurbani katha i.e. translation of Gurbani.

Following are some of the meanings of the word "Katha" in Gurbani:

1) Akath Katha (of Naami Vaheguru) through Gurbani. Akath means that which cannot be explained or expressed. Akath means Vaheguru. Akath Katha means the explanation or description of the unexplainable and indescribable Vaheguru.

2) Gur-deekhiya roop Katha i.e. Gurmantr roop Katha that we get at the time of initiation or Amrit Sinchaar Samagam.

3) Har Har Katha i.e. Katha of Vaheguru through Naam Abhyaas. In other words to Japp Naam is doing Katha of Vaheguru.

4) Katha of Vaheguru through Ajappa Jaap. When the Jaap of Vaheguru goes on all by itself, and does not stop ever, it is referred to as Ajappa Jaap. Doing Ajappa Jaap is doing Katha of Vaheguru.

5) Amrit Katha - Again this is Katha of Vaheguru through Gurbani or Naam. When one sings Gurbani, one is doing Amrit Katha of Vaheguru and his qualities.

6) Sehaj Katha: This is a mystical state where katha of Vaheguru is done by the jeev aatma, through Naam or is listened by the jeev atma when it reaches the high spiritual states.

7) Guhaj Anand Binodi Katha.

8) Akath Katha through kirtan.

9) Sadh Jana kee Acharaj Katha (7 ashtpadi of Siri Sukhmani Sahib). It means praising Guru Sahibaan through Gurbani is referred to as Sadh Jana kee Acharaj Katha.

Following is an extract from Bhai Sahib's book Katha Kirtan. It's impossible to do correct and accurate translation of Bhai Sahib's writing. Guru Sahib baksh lain.

***************Translation begins*************

ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੁਣੀਐ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਨਿਤ ਸੁਣੀਐ ॥

ਮਿਲਿ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ ਜਗੁ ਭਉਜਲੁ ਦੁਤਰੁ ਤਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥1॥

In this gurvaak, reading Hargunn (qualities of Vaheguru, Gurbani) and singing Hargunn (gurbani) has been determined as Katha of Harnaam. To sing the qualities of God's Naam is doing Gurmat Katha of Har Naam. This Love Katha is sung in Satsangat while being absorbed in Naam.

Some stubborn people who are supporters of doing Katha of Gurbani claim that in the first pankiti "ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੁਣੀਐ ॥" , both doing paath of Gurbani and kirtan of Gurbani has been clearly mentioned. The second pankiti therefore clearly refers to doing Katha of Gurbani, just as traditionally the katha of Gurbani has been done at samagams after Gurbani kirtan.

In response to the above claim, we have mentioned this many times that this (the above paragraph) is a false statement and this maryada of doing katha after kirtan just got started out of imitation. What Katha can some Kathakaar do of Naam? The words "Har Har" appear two times before "Naam" which clearly means that saying Naam again and again is doing Tatt Katha and this is not something you are supposed to do only daily (once a day) but with every breath. The Kathakaars who do katha at Gurdwaras don't do katha of Naam but they do katha of Gurbani Shabad. (therefore they cannot use the second pankiti of the above shabad in their favour).

For some years now, the katha of amritvela hukamnama of Siri Darbar Sahib Siri Amritsar has been started at Gurdwara Manji Sahib but this maryada was not there in the past. Before, there used to be katha of only Suraj Parkash or some other historical scripture (not of Gurbani). And what Shabad Katha do they do there? They just express the false beliefs of their mind there. Many times this katha is done in form of a lecture. Famous scholars of Chief Khalsa Diwan do the katha of Gurbani standing and in lecture form. We ourselves have heard them doing so. To call this lecture, a katha, is a wrong thing to say. It is purely an entertainment of mind and nothing spiritual. No one does katha of Naam Shabad rather the real essence of Gurbani Shabad is lost during these katha samagams. They tell tales with the cleverness of their mind. Just because they call it Gurshabad Katha does not mean that it becomes Gurshabad Katha.

*************Translation Ends******************

Kulbir Singh

[MokhamSingh]

WAHEGURUJIKAKHALSAWAHEGURUJIKEFATEH.

ਕਥਾ ਸੁਣਤ ਮਲੁ ਸਗਲੀ ਖੋਵੈ ॥

कथा सुणत मलु सगली खोवै ॥

Kathā suṇaṯ mal saglī kẖovai.

Hearing Your Sermon, all filth is removed.

There are hundreds of references to katha in SGGS. The above is just one example. My personal interpretation of "katha" is the preaching of the qualities of Waheguru ,and as such , what one can attain by naam simram.

I spent many years listening to katha from many different preachers and reading steeks etc. Now I feel that I have reached a stage where I can decipher Gurbani and Gur Ithihas for myself.

I get distraught at times when I have to sit through katha where the preacher is not promoting the power of naam but rather is using Gurbani to promote his own agenda.

I feel I have got there in the end but only after years of searching and interpreting.

I still feel that katha of SGGS is important aswell as the katha of Sri Gur pratap suraj granth. I appreciate that some historical events recorded in SGPSG do not conform to the Gurmat of SGGS but that is something we learn to balance after debating the issues with scholars and prominent Gursiks etc.

All preachers and other Gurbani readers will interpret it in their own way and , as such , will attempt to portray it in that way.

I would say that people in general fall into the three categories of "rajjo gunn ,tammo gunn ,and satto gunn" but the true katha of waheguru ji would be performed by someone who does not fit into this category i.e. someone who is in "chauttha padh".

Regards.

[chatanga]

Secondly, what Bhai Sahib has written is that doing katha of Gurbani is not kalyankaari i.e. this karma in its capacity cannot lead one to salvation as chanting of Naam and recitation of Gurbani does. It helps one to solidify one's position on the spiritual path, provided it's done by a person who is well-versed in meanings of Gurbani but just by listening to Katha one cannot get Paramgat (salvation).

Kulbir Singh

Katha is kalyankaari. It is proven by the leaving of bodies at Damadama Sahib when Guru Ji finished katha of Aad Guru Darbar, the 48 Sikhs left their bodies to go to sachkhand. Katha on its own may not be kalyaankaari, but then neither is kirtan or naam simran or sewa on its own. They are all parts of one big picture.

this is nothing personal is it?

[kam1825]

"Har kee Katha" is referred to Naam here and not katha by some gyani

Thats quite funny i have never heard this line referred to Gyanis! The greatest of all is the expounding of the narratives of the Lord. Whether that be Nirgun Hari through Gurbani or Sargun Hari through Ithaas.

The above two posts have added some very good points also.

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

"Har kee Katha" is referred to Naam here and not katha by some gyani

Thats quite funny i have never heard this line referred to Gyanis! The greatest of all is the expounding of the narratives of the Lord. Whether that be Nirgun Hari through Gurbani or Sargun Hari through Ithaas.

The above two posts have added some very good points also.

Bhai Sahib are you trying to compare History to Gurbani? We cant compare anything to Har Katha in Gurbani. Guru Jis Katha is full of Amrit, does the sayings in history have the same affect.

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

"Har kee Katha" is referred to Naam here and not katha by some gyani

Thats quite funny i have never heard this line referred to Gyanis! The greatest of all is the expounding of the narratives of the Lord. Whether that be Nirgun Hari through Gurbani or Sargun Hari through Ithaas.

The above two posts have added some very good points also.

Bhai Sahib is not saying the pangti is referring to a Giani. You have purposely misquoted or misunderstood the statement. The original statement was "The next pankiti proves that "Har kee Katha" is referred to Naam here and not katha by some gyani. Dard (pain), dukh (sorrow) will go away listening to Naam roopi Katha and not katha by some gyani. How can the katha of a certified gyani be "Sabh tey uttam" i.e. greatest of all. Greatest Katha is Gurbani itself."

How can we refer to this pangti is referring to some certified Giani who makes money off Gurbani. THe next pangti clearly states that by listening to the Katha of Naam all pains are destroyed. If we say this pangti is referring to the Katha of a "Giani" then we are saying he is speaking Naam and his words destroy all pains. That would be blasphemous to compare the words of a motal the Bachan of SatGuru Ji.

[K. SINGH DEEP]

Teri Akatth Kathha Kathhan na Jae.

[kam1825]

Har kee Katha

Sargun and Nirgun Katha has its differences as we are all aware. Nirgun Katha of Gurbani is the greatest but many people initially gain Vairaag and Vivek hrough listening to Katha of Sooraj Prakash and also sections such as the 5th ruth of the Sooraj Prakash hold all the brahmgian vidya required to understand the deep mystical compositions and Gurbani and the atma.

To totally ignore katha of Sargun Upashna is dangerous. If that is done then when Katha of Gurbani is done and uthanikas have to be given or details explained of who the guru is giving updesh to where and why, how can it be done without knowing the historical perspective of the shabad. Most of this can be found in the Sri Sooraj Prakash.

The ideal example is the Dohras from Salok Mahalla 9 where one one of the saloks are by Guru Gobind Singh Ji and from the numerous puratan saroops i have seen of Guru Sahib one will find it under the title of Mahalla 10. The saloks are direct questions and answers and the ithaas of the saloks and dohra can be found in Raas 12 Ansoo 60 - 62 in the Sri Sooraj Prakash. Another example is that there are 3 So Dars in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but were all uttered at different places to different audiances thus the difference in the wording and language differ from one another. If the historical perspective is not know then to and Tom, Jo and Harry it looks like Guru Sahib put the same shabad it 3 times for no reason. Again all three of these are explained in the Sri Nanak Parkash when they appear as updesh at different places to different audiences.

Doing katha on the lives and teachings of the Gurus are as imporatant to us as Gurbani. All is Har Ki Katha regardless of Sargun or Nirgun Hari.

We should not implore such a Christiann (semitic) ideal in the way that they should only preach the new testiment and give up all historical psalms, apostiles and doctrines. By doing this you can ask the christians about many parts of the bible and they will not have a clue as to where, when or why the psalms or prayers were written.

[chatanga]

good post kam. maybe bhai sahib didn't reach the state/level of spiritality to understand this. But katha is something that only people with bhaag get to listen to. The teachings of Aad Guru and Dasam Guru are amazing when they are told in context, and not just a simple word for word translation. Not to mention that there can be different meanings for each line.

etc

Har Har Naam = The words "Har Har" appear two times before "Naam" meaning...(Sukdeep SIngh)

Har Har Naam = Har and his Name..., in the context of Har Har Jan...

Gurbani is more complex and subtle than Sukhdeep Singh thinks it is.

[Matheen]

Sukhdeep Singh, look into the roots of the word 'Katha' and what it means. All of the question you ask here and on other forums have been comprehensively answered in Kathas.