Jathedar Swarnjit Singh Supports Babbu Maan Album

[singh987]

You have asked me why I believe Sant Dhadrianwale are a true Sant, my answer is that I see in them bana and bani at such a level hard to see in any other kathakar, kirtani and parcharak.

That's a fair point, However, you've dodged my question. I asked whether Bhai Sahib's bachan's are indicative of their high awastha, most of Bhai Sahib's deewan's centre around sikh ithiaas, dharna's and some simran. You question my respect for Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa - well they're awastha was shown by their understanding of bani - ability to do viyakhya of chaldi bani - and their nitnemi jeevan. Furthermore - my dad spent some (not a lot) of time with Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale at darbar sahib, he tells me of thier 'noor', aura, persona and presence! All these were indications of thier high awastha. Furthermore thier bachans also indicated thier awastha - comments like "Physical death I do not fear, but death of the conscience is a sure death" do not get uttered by your average joe.

Secondly you say there is no aura in them, I will question you is this not an aura: how many 20/25 year olds have YOU seen with the amount of knowledge on gurbani that Sant Ji lectures in their diwans, or how many do you know that have the power to make sangat sit down for hours on end as Sant Ji do in their diwans, most sangat doesn't listen to parcharaks for 10minutes.

Bhaaji, this statement doesn't hold up. Sangat doesn't disrespect learned pracharaks! People in the UK have regular rehansabahi's and you talk about not listening to bani for 10 minutes! LOL!

How man 25 year old do I know with Gurmat knowledge? Quite a few actually - You'll find people abroad are not as manmukh as people in india/punjab. Whilst Bhai Ranjit Singh has been on "tour" in the UK, I had the privilege to spend some time with him. I have seen Bhai Sahib's preparations for deewan's take place in thier car - last minute catching up of the day's topics. Again nothing wrong with this. But Bhai Sahib's knowledge is gained through research and literature, just like any other pracharak.

You say about poor and that Sant Dhadrianwale should help them. I don't think people like me and you would have ever carried out the wedding of even 2 poor people and at Parmeshardwar Sant Ji do thousands on end as well as help others. If we did this we'd probably only help our friends and relatives and make sure the whole world knows about it.

I'm sorry I made no such comments - you have me confused with someone else. Please don't fabricate nonsense!

I would like to question you, have you ever stayed one whole day/night at Parmeshardwar and seen what time they get up and when they go sleep, how their life is structured??? If the answer to this is no, you do not have the right to talk negatively about them.

Personally no - I haven't spent a night at thier dera. I am however close (family friend) to a few members of thier jatha who HAVE and STILL do spend time with them, going on tours to america / england. Trust me, their (members of the jatha - not Bhai Ranjit Singh) antics are not worth discussing - that WOULD be nindeya and I'm not going to elaborate on that. I fail to see how they can be in the sharan and sangat of a learned "mahapurakh" and be so childish themselves! I am not talking negatively about Bhai Ranjit Singh - He is truly doing brilliant prachaar!! Please re-read my posts, I've always apologised if I've come across negatively and have stated my views are my own.

Dharnas have been used from many years to explain Gurbani just like kathavchaks use their own words to explain without singing. I would like to question you what do dhadi's sing? kachi bani? no they sing their own poems to explain the meanings of gurbani to the sangat, dhadhi vaars are not kachi baani.

Again - why are you comparing apples to oranges? Dhadhi's also don't have 100's of 1000's of "followers" who address them as "sant"... but this is besides the point. How many dhadhi's can you remember who attained "sant" "mahapurakh" "bramhgyani" awastha? - Poems and Kachi bani will only take you so far - je paar langhna hai ta naam da hi sahara laina paina.

Also, Gurbani says 'ghat ghat meah har joo buseah' bhugat naam dev Ji saw God in a dog, you can find this out by reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, bhagat bani. (If you believe that Bhughuts (sants) exist). Bhugat Nam Dev Ji saw God out of a dog, we are not even able to see Sant through our own parcharak.

Re-read my post I said something along these lines when I explained what "sant" "bramhgiyani" "mahapurrakh" is. These awastha's mean one see's god in god's creation! So what's your point? A high awastha is required to see saintliness in god's creation... Which is why Bhagat Naam Dev Ji saw god. Did the dog see god in Bhagat Naam Dev Ji? Moreover, Are you saying that the majority of the common folks or lets say general public's awastha is high enough that they see mahapurakh/sant in Bhai Ranjit Singh? - I hope you can see the point I'm raising. Personally I couldn't care less - Like I said before - today it's one person in 5 years time it'll be someone else!

And Gurus are not sants, Gurus make sants. There have been many people before us so why do we call Guru Ji Guru, why not call them Sant Gobind Singh Ji??? Why don’t you call them Sant.

Akaalpurakh is the ONLY entity we are to worship - we all strive to enter akaalpurakh's domain! Our guru's, bhagats, all enlightened beings have access to this domain! What is the word Guru? It means teacher. Who can teach? Someone who has knowledge. Our guru's had access akaalpurakh - They proved this by scribing his word in the form of Gurbani. THATs Why we call them guru's, They PROVED their status! - But What's your point?!

I would like to ask you, where, when, what time/date did you meet Sant Dhadrianwale and what was your conversation. Please answer this question.

What does this have to do with anything? - I have met him in 2006/2007/2008.

I do not have time to explain to people like you who pick out stuff to make it a big issue. Maharaj says 'moorakh gant pavai muhi maar' (The fool establishes his bonds only when he is slapped in the face). You will not understand in the way I am explaining to you. I cannot explain to the person who does not understand from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Bani says, 'moorakhai naal n lujheeai' (Don't argue with fools)

Theek hai veer ji, I'm a moorakh. Which is why I said, If I am wrong - please do help lead me on the right path. I would however request that you re-read my previous post and actually resolve my queries rather than raising baseless points which provide no gurmat gyaan at all! Although I didn't appreciate your cunning tactics where you question my respect for Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa - Keep to the topic we're discussing, don't bring in other issues such as Dasam Granth and so on! By your method we might as well as bring in discussions about Quantum Computing too!

Gurfateh!

[bsgill]

You have asked me why I believe Sant Dhadrianwale are a true Sant, my answer is that I see in them bana and bani at such a level hard to see in any other kathakar, kirtani and parcharak.

That's a fair point, However, you've dodged my question. I asked whether Bhai Sahib's bachan's are indicative of their high awastha, most of Bhai Sahib's deewan's centre around sikh ithiaas, dharna's and some simran. You question my respect for Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa - well they're awastha was shown by their understanding of bani - ability to do viyakhya of chaldi bani - and their nitnemi jeevan. Furthermore - my dad spent some (not a lot) of time with Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale at darbar sahib, he tells me of thier 'noor', aura, persona and presence! All these were indications of thier high awastha. Furthermore thier bachans also indicated thier awastha - comments like "Physical death I do not fear, but death of the conscience is a sure death" do not get uttered by your average joe.

Secondly you say there is no aura in them, I will question you is this not an aura: how many 20/25 year olds have YOU seen with the amount of knowledge on gurbani that Sant Ji lectures in their diwans, or how many do you know that have the power to make sangat sit down for hours on end as Sant Ji do in their diwans, most sangat doesn't listen to parcharaks for 10minutes.

Bhaaji, this statement doesn't hold up. Sangat doesn't disrespect learned pracharaks! People in the UK have regular rehansabahi's and you talk about not listening to bani for 10 minutes! LOL!

How man 25 year old do I know with Gurmat knowledge? Quite a few actually - You'll find people abroad are not as manmukh as people in india/punjab. Whilst Bhai Ranjit Singh has been on "tour" in the UK, I had the privilege to spend some time with him. I have seen Bhai Sahib's preparations for deewan's take place in thier car - last minute catching up of the day's topics. Again nothing wrong with this. But Bhai Sahib's knowledge is gained through research and literature, just like any other pracharak.

You say about poor and that Sant Dhadrianwale should help them. I don't think people like me and you would have ever carried out the wedding of even 2 poor people and at Parmeshardwar Sant Ji do thousands on end as well as help others. If we did this we'd probably only help our friends and relatives and make sure the whole world knows about it.

I'm sorry I made no such comments - you have me confused with someone else. Please don't fabricate nonsense!

I would like to question you, have you ever stayed one whole day/night at Parmeshardwar and seen what time they get up and when they go sleep, how their life is structured??? If the answer to this is no, you do not have the right to talk negatively about them.

Personally no - I haven't spent a night at thier dera. I am however close (family friend) to a few members of thier jatha who HAVE and STILL do spend time with them, going on tours to america / england. Trust me, their (members of the jatha - not Bhai Ranjit Singh) antics are not worth discussing - that WOULD be nindeya and I'm not going to elaborate on that. I fail to see how they can be in the sharan and sangat of a learned "mahapurakh" and be so childish themselves! I am not talking negatively about Bhai Ranjit Singh - He is truly doing brilliant prachaar!! Please re-read my posts, I've always apologised if I've come across negatively and have stated my views are my own.

Dharnas have been used from many years to explain Gurbani just like kathavchaks use their own words to explain without singing. I would like to question you what do dhadi's sing? kachi bani? no they sing their own poems to explain the meanings of gurbani to the sangat, dhadhi vaars are not kachi baani.

Again - why are you comparing apples to oranges? Dhadhi's also don't have 100's of 1000's of "followers" who address them as "sant"... but this is besides the point. How many dhadhi's can you remember who attained "sant" "mahapurakh" "bramhgyani" awastha? - Poems and Kachi bani will only take you so far - je paar langhna hai ta naam da hi sahara laina paina.

Also, Gurbani says 'ghat ghat meah har joo buseah' bhugat naam dev Ji saw God in a dog, you can find this out by reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, bhagat bani. (If you believe that Bhughuts (sants) exist). Bhugat Nam Dev Ji saw God out of a dog, we are not even able to see Sant through our own parcharak.

Re-read my post I said something along these lines when I explained what "sant" "bramhgiyani" "mahapurrakh" is. These awastha's mean one see's god in god's creation! So what's your point? A high awastha is required to see saintliness in god's creation... Which is why Bhagat Naam Dev Ji saw god. Did the dog see god in Bhagat Naam Dev Ji? Moreover, Are you saying that the majority of the common folks or lets say general public's awastha is high enough that they see mahapurakh/sant in Bhai Ranjit Singh? - I hope you can see the point I'm raising. Personally I couldn't care less - Like I said before - today it's one person in 5 years time it'll be someone else!

And Gurus are not sants, Gurus make sants. There have been many people before us so why do we call Guru Ji Guru, why not call them Sant Gobind Singh Ji??? Why don’t you call them Sant.

Akaalpurakh is the ONLY entity we are to worship - we all strive to enter akaalpurakh's domain! Our guru's, bhagats, all enlightened beings have access to this domain! What is the word Guru? It means teacher. Who can teach? Someone who has knowledge. Our guru's had access akaalpurakh - They proved this by scribing his word in the form of Gurbani. THATs Why we call them guru's, They PROVED their status! - But What's your point?!

I would like to ask you, where, when, what time/date did you meet Sant Dhadrianwale and what was your conversation. Please answer this question.

What does this have to do with anything? - I have met him in 2006/2007/2008.

I do not have time to explain to people like you who pick out stuff to make it a big issue. Maharaj says 'moorakh gant pavai muhi maar' (The fool establishes his bonds only when he is slapped in the face). You will not understand in the way I am explaining to you. I cannot explain to the person who does not understand from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Bani says, 'moorakhai naal n lujheeai' (Don't argue with fools)

Theek hai veer ji, I'm a moorakh. Which is why I said, If I am wrong - please do help lead me on the right path. I would however request that you re-read my previous post and actually resolve my queries rather than raising baseless points which provide no gurmat gyaan at all! Although I didn't appreciate your cunning tactics where you question my respect for Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa - Keep to the topic we're discussing, don't bring in other issues such as Dasam Granth and so on! By your method we might as well as bring in discussions about Quantum Computing too!

Gurfateh!

Firstly, I would ask you to read all my posts again as you keep asking the same questions just by rewording them, when they have already been answered.

You say that I have dogded your question, but this is what you asked me:

why you believe or what evidence is there that Bhai Sahib is already at mahapurakh or bhramgyan awastha?

I will repeat myself again. The word Sant is made up of three different words put together: S for simran, N for nimurta and T for Tiyaag. I see all three in Sant Dhadrianwale along with bani and bana which is my reason for calling them by the title Sant. About evidence, I have already told you that a real gursikh does not show off with his kuramats as this is against sikhi and our Gurus have told us not to do so. What kind of evidence do you want, supernatural powers shown in the middle of one of their diwans?? What part of this do you not get??

they're awastha was shown by their understanding of bani - ability to do viyakhya of chaldi bani - and their nitnemi jeevan. Furthermore - my dad spent some (not a lot) of time with Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale at darbar sahib, he tells me of their 'noor', aura, persona and presence! All these were indications of their high awastha.

I have met thousands of people who have spent one or two days with Sant Ji. My father lived with them, along with Sant Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale, Shaheed Bhai Amrik Singh Ji, Baba Thakur Singh Ji, Shaheed Bhai Swarn Singh Ji and the rest of the shaheeds of 84, my father and Sant Kartar Singh Ji also used to go and meet Bhai Randhir Singh Ji at their pind. As you say you will call Bhindranwale by the name Sant as your father told you of their noor, aura and personal presence and he only 'spent some (not alot) of time with them, I would like to question you, wouldn't the person who has lived with both Bhindranwale and Dhadrianwale (from the very beginning) know more about the jiwanies and their avastha?? Maharaj says' brahamgiani ki ghat brahamgiani janeah' People like us cannot understand easily as we lack sharda. Also, you say that Sant Bhindranwale did viakhiya of gurbani, listen to their speeches they also tell ithiaas. And, I think you need to listen to Dhadrianwale’s diwans more carefully as they explain both gurbani and ithiaas. Ithiaas and gurbani are put together to make it easeir for us people to understand.<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

You do not agree with me that Sant Dhadrianwale are able to control sangat. You say that Raensabhais show this. I would like to tell you that when we go to reansabhai’s MOST of us comes in coaches and therefore leave together when the coach goes back. What I am saying is that Sant Dhadrianwale’s have up to 2-3 diwans everyday and the gathering is still the same, at raensabhais, we organise them and arrange for coaches, but we have to organise for that, sangat at diwans comes without any transport preparations. I have used this example to explain to you that Sant Dhadrianwale’s satkar is different to that of other parcharaks. At Sant Dhadrianwale’s diwans sangat comes hours early so that they can get a desent place to sit, again reflecting the difference between them and others. Agree with me or not but we all know the truth.

Bhaaji, this statement doesn't hold up. Sangat doesn't disrespect learned pracharaks! People in the UK have regular rehansabahi's and you talk about not listening to bani for 10 minutes! LOL!

I did not say that sangat disrespects parcharaks. I said that the satkar that Sant Dhadrianwale get is different to other parcharaks and the sangat knows this. I did not say that 20/25 year olds don't have gurmat knowledge; I said that it is not to the level that the sangat sees in Sant Dhadrianwale. Again, this is shown through the satkar that they get wherever they go. Please do not try to ignore what I am saying and cover it up by saying that I am “dodging” your question to why I believe Sant Dhadrianwale are a true Sant.

I have seen Bhai Sahib's preparations for deewan's take place in thier car - last minute catching up of the day's topics. Again nothing wrong with this. But Bhai Sahib's knowledge is gained through research and literature, just like any other pracharak.

Please do not make up your own stories. They do not plan diwans, they are done on the stage and this I have seen with my own eyes whilst travelling to and from diwans, and singhs of their jatha know this. And their giaan comes to them from Akaal Purakh, not research and literature as they have not been taught how to do parchaar.

Personally no - I haven't spent a night at their dera.

You do not know Sant Ji personally, so how can you say what they do in their own time (gain knowledge through literature??)

Again - why are you comparing apples to oranges? Dhadhi's also don't have 100's of 1000's of "followers" who address them as "sant".

<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

You said they sing 'kachi' bani. How does the amount of following somebody has, make their words bani?? Bani is what has come from the mouth of Gurus. If a dhadhi was to get "100's of 1000's of followers", this would not change their kavta into 'kachi bani'. And what is wrong with having 100’s and 1000’s of followers who address them as Sant?? People don’t do this WITHOUT reason.

You quoted me on the following:

Gurbani says 'ghat ghat meah har joo buseah' bhugat naam dev Ji saw God in a dog, you can find this out by reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, bhagat bani. (If you believe that Bhughuts (sants) exist). Bhugat Nam Dev Ji saw God out of a dog, we are not even able to see Sant through our own parcharak.

I used this to explain to you why sangat calls Dhadrianwale by the title Sant. Read it again and it will make sense.

Akaalpurakh is the ONLY entity we are to worship - we all strive to enter akaalpurakh's domain! Our guru's, bhagats, all enlightened beings have access to this domain! What is the word Guru? It means teacher. Who can teach? Someone who has knowledge. Our guru's had access akaalpurakh - They proved this by scribing his word in the form of Gurbani. THATs Why we call them guru's, They PROVED their status!

Do you need Sants to show their avastha by 'scribing' their own bani?? This would be against what sikhi teaches us so please do not make such manmukh comments. I think you might be a follower of people like ‘paniara wale’ who create their own stuff and call it ‘bani’. Sikhi tells us not to create our own granths, we have been told to see Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our Guru.

You did not answer my question. I asked you where, when, what time/date did you meet Sant Dhadrianwale. You do not want to answer this question and I will not make you, but then anyone can say that they have met them and start making up similar stories as you.

After looking at the kind of stuff you are writing, I have noticed that your stories are made up and lack truth and I ask you to not do such as lieing is against sikhi (especially if it is being done against such high mahapurakhs).

I would like to ask you where in gurbani does it say that you should not touch the feet of a gursikh?

Where does it say that a mahapurash should show his aura before the sangat can call him ‘Sant’?

Where does it say that a gursikh cannot sing the meanings of gurbani (Dharna), so that it is explained to the sangat?

My argument is backed up by gurbani, therefore reflecting the truth it has in it.

Again, you will not understand in the way I am explaining to you. I cannot explain to the person who does not understand from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Bani says, 'moorakhai naal n lujheeai' (Don't argue with fools)

If you have any more questions, read back through my posts as I feel it is wasting time to explain to people who do not understand from Dhan Dhan Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Don’t reword questions and tell me that I havent answered what you are asking, just re-read my posts carefully with sharda and piar for sikhi and our parcharaks as this will help you through the situation you are in.

[qwerty]

'bsgill' what you are saying is 100% true and we all know that. Its just that SOME people like to point fingers at our parcharaks.

Some do this straight and others come from slightly twisted views.

[singh987]

I would like to question you, wouldn't the person who has lived with both Bhindranwale and Dhadrianwale (from the very beginning) know more about the jiwanies and their avastha?? Maharaj says' brahamgiani ki ghat brahamgiani janeah'

Not necessarily, those who are absorbed by their own ego's can never change. Look at Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Son's, there are countless examples. Again stop trying to present me as someone who hates "sants" or the word sant - I assure you, I am an amrit dhari gursikh and have no such hatred! You're a cunning person.

You do not agree with me that Sant Dhadrianwale are able to control sangat. You say that Raensabhais show this. I would like to tell you that when we go to reansabhai’s MOST of us comes in coaches and therefore leave together when the coach goes back. What I am saying is that Sant Dhadrianwale’s have up to 2-3 diwans everyday and the gathering is still the same, at raensabhais, we organise them and arrange for coaches, but we have to organise for that, sangat at diwans comes without any transport preparations. I have used this example to explain to you that Sant Dhadrianwale’s satkar is different to that of other parcharaks. At Sant Dhadrianwale’s diwans sangat comes hours early so that they can get a desent place to sit, again reflecting the difference between them and others.

Eh? Again most allegations you've fabricated. I never mentioned about "controling" the sangat or anything. What's your point with all these baseless comments? There are large gatherings at pop concerts - they control crowds too. what's your point?

And their giaan comes to them from Akaal Purakh, not research and literature as they have not been taught how to do parchaar.

lol. Call me a lair, call me a fool, call me blind. Bhai Ranjit Singh reads literature, books and articles. I have seen it myself - if you don't believe this then so help you god!

How does the amount of following somebody has, make their words bani?? Bani is what has come from the mouth of Gurus. If a dhadhi was to get "100's of 1000's of followers", this would not change their kavta into 'kachi bani'. And what is wrong with having 100’s and 1000’s of followers who address them as Sant?? People don’t do this WITHOUT reason.

Fair point - I will not refer to dharna's / dhadhi vaaran as kachi bani in the future - Thank you.

Your second point however is utter rubbish. People follow Ram Rahim, Bhainearey waala, Ashutosh - they must also do this for some reason too. More of the same baseless rubbish coming from you.

Do you need Sants to show their avastha by 'scribing' their own bani?? This would be against what sikhi teaches us so please do not make such manmukh comments. I think you might be a follower of people like ‘paniara wale’ who create their own stuff and call it ‘bani’. Sikhi tells us not to create our own granths, we have been told to see Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our Guru.

Of course not!! I never suggested there should be karaamaat's or iteration of "bani"!! What a preposterous and ridiculous interpretation of my comments! - Did Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Khalsa write his own bani or show karaamaatan to show his awastha!

Do not call me a panearey waala follower. This head bows only to our 11 Guru's and the almighty. If you need to spew hatred against me, odan gaalan kad la - but do not accuse me of following some pakhandi!

You did not answer my question. I asked you where, when, what time/date did you meet Sant Dhadrianwale.

How is the place or time going to change anything? I edited my previous post and answered this there.

would like to ask you where in gurbani does it say that you should not touch the feet of a gursikh?

Where does it say that a mahapurash should show his aura before the sangat can call him ‘Sant’?

Where does it say that a gursikh cannot sing the meanings of gurbani (Dharna), so that it is explained to the sangat?

Where did I say one shouldn't sing dharna? Where did I say show me chamatkaars? where does gurbani says I shouldn't see a sant in a teapot? What's your point?

My argument is backed up by gurbani, therefore reflecting the truth it has in it.

You think my argument/viewpoint/statements are baseless and weak because I refuse to quote Gurbani at every instance to help me to make a stand? You referenced Bhagat Naam Dev Ji in the previous post, I showed you how that shabad can be used in both sides of our debate. -Go read my last post again.

Another example - you quoted "Bramhgiyani ki gath Bramhgiyani jaanae" - well by this logic - you nor I know anything about Bhai Sahib's Awastha, unless you also claim to be a Bhramhgiyani. Secondly since the general sikh public has bestowed titles like "sant" "mahapurakh" "bramhgiyani" onto many person, surely they must all also be bramhgiyani's for knowing said person's awastha. - See my point?

Again, you will not understand in the way I am explaining to you. I cannot explain to the person who does not understand from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Bani says, 'moorakhai naal n lujheeai' (Don't argue with fools)

If you have any more questions, read back through my posts as I feel it is wasting time to explain to people who do not understand from Dhan Dhan Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

For starters we're not arguing, I think of this more as a discussion - lets say aimed at helping me see your outlook. You're not wasting your time - if my outlook on a sacha mahapurakh is incorrect, then you are a wadbhaaga gursikh who can help a fool like me.

Look - We're not arguing, you're trying to make defensive statements on things that I DON'T doubt!! I DO believe there are sant's and mahapurakhs! I DON'T want to do anyone's nindeya - and I have tried my best to no do nindeya - you can see through all my posts. Your comments like "you will not understand" show that you know your arguments are baseless so you try to cover yourself by trying to say that I don't believe in Sahib Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji. What a lowly way to carry out a debate and how cunning of you!! I hope it's clear to you that you have your viewpoint and I have mine - this is not a competition to say "I am right and you're not". Stop being cunning and trying to accuse me of being a pakhandi/nindak or whatever comes into your mind. I am an amrit dhari gursikh and proud of it!

A final comment - you clearly don't posses the knowledge to even understand my query let alone provide an adequate answer. I will wait for a gursikh who does. Thanks for the good discussion anyway!

Gurfateh.

[noorsingh]

I would like to question you, wouldn't the person who has lived with both Bhindranwale and Dhadrianwale (from the very beginning) know more about the jiwanies and their avastha?? Maharaj says' brahamgiani ki ghat brahamgiani janeah'

Not necessarily, those who are absorbed by their own ego's can never change. Look at Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Son's, there are countless examples. Again stop trying to present me as someone who hates "sants" or the word sant - I assure you, I am an amrit dhari gursikh and have no such hatred! You're a cunning person.

You do not agree with me that Sant Dhadrianwale are able to control sangat. You say that Raensabhais show this. I would like to tell you that when we go to reansabhai's MOST of us comes in coaches and therefore leave together when the coach goes back. What I am saying is that Sant Dhadrianwale's have up to 2-3 diwans everyday and the gathering is still the same, at raensabhais, we organise them and arrange for coaches, but we have to organise for that, sangat at diwans comes without any transport preparations. I have used this example to explain to you that Sant Dhadrianwale's satkar is different to that of other parcharaks. At Sant Dhadrianwale's diwans sangat comes hours early so that they can get a desent place to sit, again reflecting the difference between them and others.

Eh? Again most allegations you've fabricated. I never mentioned about "controling" the sangat or anything. What's your point with all these baseless comments? There are large gatherings at pop concerts - they control crowds too. what's your point?

And their giaan comes to them from Akaal Purakh, not research and literature as they have not been taught how to do parchaar.

lol. Call me a lair, call me a fool, call me blind. Bhai Ranjit Singh reads literature, books and articles. I have seen it myself - if you don't believe this then so help you god!

How does the amount of following somebody has, make their words bani?? Bani is what has come from the mouth of Gurus. If a dhadhi was to get "100's of 1000's of followers", this would not change their kavta into 'kachi bani'. And what is wrong with having 100's and 1000's of followers who address them as Sant?? People don't do this WITHOUT reason.

Fair point - I will not refer to dharna's / dhadhi vaaran as kachi bani in the future - Thank you.

Your second point however is utter rubbish. People follow Ram Rahim, Bhainearey waala, Ashutosh - they must also do this for some reason too. More of the same baseless rubbish coming from you.

Do you need Sants to show their avastha by 'scribing' their own bani?? This would be against what sikhi teaches us so please do not make such manmukh comments. I think you might be a follower of people like 'paniara wale' who create their own stuff and call it 'bani'. Sikhi tells us not to create our own granths, we have been told to see Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our Guru.

Of course not!! I never suggested there should be karaamaat's or iteration of "bani"!! What a preposterous and ridiculous interpretation of my comments! - Did Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Khalsa write his own bani or show karaamaatan to show his awastha!

Do not call me a panearey waala follower. This head bows only to our 11 Guru's and the almighty. If you need to spew hatred against me, odan gaalan kad la - but do not accuse me of following some pakhandi!

You did not answer my question. I asked you where, when, what time/date did you meet Sant Dhadrianwale.

How is the place or time going to change anything? I edited my previous post and answered this there.

would like to ask you where in gurbani does it say that you should not touch the feet of a gursikh?

Where does it say that a mahapurash should show his aura before the sangat can call him 'Sant'?

Where does it say that a gursikh cannot sing the meanings of gurbani (Dharna), so that it is explained to the sangat?

Where did I say one shouldn't singh dharna? Where Did I say show me chamatkaars? where does gurbani says I shouldn't see a sant in a teapot? What's your point?

My argument is backed up by gurbani, therefore reflecting the truth it has in it.

You think my argument/viewpoint/statements are baseless and weak because I refuse to quote Gurbani at every instance to help me to make a stand? You referenced Bhagat Naam Dev Ji in the previous post, I showed you how that shabad can be used in both sides of our debate. -Go read my last post again.

Again, you will not understand in the way I am explaining to you. I cannot explain to the person who does not understand from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Bani says, 'moorakhai naal n lujheeai' (Don't argue with fools)

If you have any more questions, read back through my posts as I feel it is wasting time to explain to people who do not understand from Dhan Dhan Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

For starters we're not arguing, I think of this more as a discussion - lets say aimed at helping me see your outlook. You're not wasting your time - if my outlook on a sacha mahapurakh is incorrect, then you are a wadbhaaga gursikh who can help a fool like me.

Look - We're not arguing, you're trying to make defensive statements on things that I DON'T doubt!! I DO believe there are sant's and mahapurakhs! I DON'T want to do anyone's nindeya - and I have tried my best to no do nindeya - you can see through all my posts. I hope it's clear to you that you have your viewpoint and I have mine - this is not a competition to say "I am right and you're not". Stop being cunning and trying to accuse me of being a pakhandi/nindak or whatever comes into your mind. I am an amrit dhari gursikh and proud of it!

A final comment - you clearly don't posses the knowledge to even understand my query let alone provide an adequate answer. I will wait for a gursikh who does. Thanks for the good discussion anyway!

Gurfateh.

All i'm going to say is that it looks like SOME of us are finding it difficult to look at the parchar done by Sant Baba Ranjeet Singh Ji Dahadrianwale. What will happen to our panth! We don't even want our own parcharaks to be in chardikala! Why can't we just stick together and stop putting our MAIN parcharaks down! This ain't gonna get us anywhere!

('singh987' I think your flicking through the posts without reading them properly, 'BSGill' outlined the answers in sooo much detail! we all understand. And besides, you keep twisting everything around.)

[qwerty]

Your right though noorsingh, some people find it stressfull to look at others spirituality. It funny though, these nindaks try so hard to prove their point and put Dhadrianwale down but it just doesn't work out, they just end up going in circles and squares and triangles haha!

[singh987]

Your right though noorsingh, some people find it stressfull to look at others spirituality. It funny though, these nindaks try so hard to prove their point and put Dhadrianwale down but it just doesn't work out, they just end up going in circles and squares and triangles haha!

I'm sorry qwerty, can you please be a dear and highlight where i've tried to do nindeya of Bhai Ranjit Singh? My initial comment was that babbu mann topic was blown way out of proportion and self imposed by the sant samaaj, following this and reading bsgill's reply the essense of my subsequent posts was that I don't agree with how the awastha's and title's of "sant" "bramhgiyani" "mahapurakh" have been bought right down..

But do tell me exactly what nindeya I've done. Look forward to your response!

Gurfateh.

[Puraatan]

singh987 - ANOTHER NINDAK trying to pretend he does not go against Sants or Dhadrian Wale but in reality is spitting venom like a snake and false propaganda. Seen Dhadrian wale preparing in the car!!!! LOL!!! What a joker.

Many of you haters have come and gone under different disguises, we would be grateful if you do not share your twisted views as well!

Everyone else - no point in trying to knock sense into venom spitters like singh987 trying to comment on the avasta of those like DHADRIAN WALE SANT, what a joker trying to say who is a real Sant or not! Leave the dogs to bark, the more you speak back to them, the more rubbish they will bark back.

Leave this pointless topic here. Full stop.

[singh987]

When you have nothing constructive or of value to add to the discussion, people like you brand others as "Nindaks" and call an end to the discussion. Typical!

Doesn't bother me though - all this "internet" courage and bhagtee - You people know your reality! :lol: People like you make me laugh. :D

I don't see qwerty replying to my post and actually SHOWING ME where I have done nindeya! I have sneaky suspicion that bsgill and qwerty are actually the same person.

[sevadar kom da]

waheguru je ka khalsa waheguru je ke fateh,

khalsa ji, i have personally met sant ranjit singh jee khalsa dhadrianwale once and from what i saw they do not prepare for diwans... and i would like to say "singh987" veerji i think from what you saw... they were prlly talking about to making society points but... as for as gurbani gyaan i think it comes from inside.. khalsaji bhul chuk maaf karna and i personally do believe he is a mahapurkh... waheguru je ka khalsa waheguru je ke fateh