.. Concept Of Kaal Purakh In Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji ..

[GPS]

Vijaydeep singh ji has given verses from Krishna avtar marked as ab devi ju ki ustat. This is praise of akal purakh and not any multi armed devi

of Hindu faith.The verses are clear when one reads those.

Krishna was avtar of vishnu. His sect are known as vaishnavs in Hindu faith. Durga followers and vasihnavs have different ideology.

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Das is no longer is discussion now, but will give few inputs.

There is no religion called "Hinduism". RSS claims that Hindu means Indian, living on banks of Indus. While good lot of people including Arya Samaj consider Hindu as derogatory term. But in either case term Hindu is not Indian but Farsi based.

Vaishnavites rever Durga as Yog Maya while Shaktas rever Vishnu as Kamal, male companion of KamalaOut of Das Mahavidya)

Demigoddess was main worshiped deity of native Indians so both Dalits and south Indian so called Hindus rever her.

In Indus vally civilisation idols of same were found. But in Shakta and Tantric text as well as Puranas related to Godess, same is beheld as formless, as being in all forms.

So is the case with Purana related to Vishnu Ji, where there is a concept of Gobind or that Vishnu, which manifests self in all and is formless, yet takes three forms of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva(refer to Padma Purana, Vishnu Purana among others(Das did some work on them to refute Bhag Singh Ambala and Dalbir Singh Faridabad).

In order to bring upper caste Aryans into true faith of Sikhism. Attribute of Akal Purakh are termed as Gobind, Ram etc in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.anyway Akal itself is an attribute so is Purakh.

To bring out caste Chandals, who were not allowed into temples so were not knowing the name like Gobind etc., name of their deity like Durga, Kali etc. were also termed as attributes of Akal in Shri Dasam Granth Sahib. so itis more a Dalit literature. Hatred of ex Arya Samaji S. Bhag Singh Ambala and upper caste Kala Afghana etc. may not like non Aryan terms so they opposed Shri Dasam Granth Sahib.

In past Churha(Supach), Doom(Chandal) etc. use to have their place of worship near cremation ground, and thier diety were like Mahakal/Kalka.

Lord Krishna being black in skin over here and his contemporary one worshipping demigoddess give signal that Krishna too was Dravidian hero. Just a few thoughts from the bookish knowledge only Akal knows the truth.

Das in past has tried to bring out meanings of Shri Dasam Granth Sahib, more like "missionary type" but found loosing his own faith. So for both Adi Guru Darbar and Dasam Guru Darbar, das thinks that meanings could be much more spritual then normal human mind can think.

Better is to go for Bhagti then wasting the time of rest of the Sangat in futile debate.Akal Bless.

[GPS]

Vijaydeep singh ji

In Hinduism sect Durga is supreme or absolute power or Goddess. They do not consider anyone above her.

Durga itself is akal purakh for them. She is revered in Northern and Eastern India. She is not revered in South India.

I have lived there and seen myself.

In sikhism she has new dimensions. She is shown as created by akal purakh who is supreme. She is under His command and is not an independent entity.

Guru sahib has written very clearly about this in chandi di vaar.

ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥

ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥

ਕਿਨੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥

Translation:

Lord! By creating Durga, you have caused destruction of demons.

Rama received power from you to kill Ravana with arrows.

Krishna received power from you to threw down Kansa by catching his hair.

The great sages and gods, even practising great austerities for several ages; do not know your limits

Chandi di vaar, Dasam Granth

There is a clear cut difference of opinion on status of Durga in two religions. Guru sahib's message is to

people at large that do not consider these deities as supreme. They are creation of akal purakh and it is

Akal purakh who is all in all.

Missionary have separate agenda.They do not consider Dasam Granth sahib as composition of dasam pita.

They are helped by others who project Durga as equivalent to God.Such people are equally at fault and add fuel

to fire and help missionaries in their propaganda.

Names such as Ram, Gopal, hari, kal , Gobind in sikh scriptures are functional names of God. If God is kind to

us he is called Dyal. If He is bringing us up he is called Gopal, when he brings death to us he is called Kal. In

reality he has no name.

In order to bring upper caste Aryans into true faith of Sikhism. Attribute of Akal Purakh are termed as Gobind, Ram etc in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Not really. Name Ram is used for akal purakh in SGGS ji. Name of Ram of ayodhaya is also used and one can make out which is which.

In the same way, shiv in SGGS ji always refer to Akal Purakh. But demigod shiv also appears in SGGS by this name. He is identified easily as

he normally appears in company of other two demigods.

Shiv used for akal purakh

isv isv krq sgl kr jorih srb mieAw Twkur qyrI dohI ]1]

Everyone calls upon You with their palms pressed together, saying, "Shiva, Shiva". O Merciful Lord and Master, everyone cries out for Your Help. ||1||

siv siv karat sagal kar joreh sarab ma-i-aa thaakur tayree dohee. ||1||

ang 207

Shiv used for demigod or devta shiv ji

isv ibrMic Asur sur jyqy kwl Agin mih jrqy ]

Shiva, Brahma, angels and demons, all burn in the fire of death.

siv biranch asur sur jaytay kaal agan meh jartay.

ang 1267

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

For the fear of leftist, possing as Sikhs in guise of missionaries, we may not have to go with Duja Bhav.

Anyway some links of demigoddess being in south.(Incidentaly eastern part of India is again hub of non Aryans,Vaishnavi Devi/Trikuta Devi/Vaishnu Devi is relativly newer then Dash Mahvidya concept and forms Dakshin MArgi Shakta with Vaishnavite influence.

So see the links below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durga

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariamman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammathiruvadi_Temple

[JPS]

.

[GPS]

Kal is no different than waheguru. God is called by many names in Gurbani. When he brings us up, he

is called Gopal.When he kind to us we call him dayal. When he brings death to us he is called kal.

That is what Guru sahib has cleared in the beginning of Jaap sahib.

ਤ੍ਵ ਸਰਬ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਰਣਤ ਸੁਮਤਿ ॥੧॥

त्व सरब नाम कथै कवन करम नाम बरणत सुमति ॥१॥

Who can express all of your names, that is why wise people have called you by functional names.

Jaap sahib.

[alias]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear GPS Jee!

Gurdev bows to Kaalee saying this.

ਨਮੋ ਦੁਸਟ ਦੋਖਾਰਦਨੀ ਰੂਪ ਕਾਲੀ ॥

नमो दुसट दोखारदनी रूप काली ॥

Thou art the destroyer of tyrants in the manifestation of Kali, I salute Thee.

Kaalee must be Waheguru. Or do you think that Gurdev bowed in front of someone else also than the primal Waheguru?

Balbir Singh

this dont mean that kali is God/waheguru. this means that god created kali to kill off the dusht. jus like taihee durga saaj kai, daintaaa da naas karaaya.

and guruji bows to God, who created kaali to naas the demons.

[alias]

Kal is no different than waheguru. God is called by many names in Gurbani. When he brings us up, he

is called Gopal.When he kind to us we call him dayal. When he brings death to us he is called kal.

That is what Guru sahib has cleared in the beginning of Jaap sahib.

ਤ੍ਵ ਸਰਬ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਰਣਤ ਸੁਮਤਿ ॥੧॥

त्व सरब नाम कथै कवन करम नाम बरणत सुमति ॥१॥

Who can express all of your names, that is why wise people have called you by functional names.

Jaap sahib.

jus to add to what veera above had said, in DG - bachittar naatak, there is a savayya that says >

>>

AOr sukwl sBY bs kwl ky eyk hI kwl Akwl sdw hY ] 84]

<<

meaning that kaal, and akaal are one of the same.

the duality of the world is there. there is this debate bout kaal and akaal, but we dont realise that they are both the same thing.

guru ji says, paap, pun doe ek samaana

paapa pun bhi saar na jaanai

kanchan loh samaan

ustat nindya naahin jai..

all these tuks show us the duality, the wandrous play, bachittak naatak of the universe.

it is for this reason guuru says, doe kar jor karo ardas / (slash) / mango ik daana etc..

also, we do not waa go to heaven nor hell. its not the aim for sikhs to go to heaven. we go through heaven nad mearge back into God himself.

guru ji says, anik tapsya karhe ahangkar, >>>narak surag fir fir avtaar<<<.

we will be forever in the tre bhavan chakar of sur nar asur. expanding this chakar of 'nar', we get the tre bhavan. and then further expansion, we get the maya type chakar within ourselves.

to mve away from dubidha, and bharam, is what we need to do. to do that ardaas that will finish the duality through suchi benti. then its all annand :feelingfree:

[JPS]

.

[GPS]

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I honestly suggest you as a Sikh brother, please learn basic Punjabi. If you study this Pankiti carefully, no where does it say Kal and Akal are the same. Kal means death. Let's look at it thoroughly:

ਔਰ ਸੁਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਬਸ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ || ੮੪|| What Guroo Saaheb is really saying is that everyone in this world faces death, but only Vaheguroo is exempt from Kaal (death), because Vaaheguroo ji is "Akaal" (free from death). Akaal is referring to Vaheguroo ji here alone. There are many names for Vaheguroo used extensively in Gurbani, but that does not mean we need to try to split Vaheguroo, all these names refer to the one Akaal Purakh ie Vaheguroo. The beliefs some people harbor are no different than the hindu beliefs of devi-devtay, according to me. Let's ponder upon this following Gurbani Pankiti:

ਪੂਜਹੁ ਰਾਮੁ ਏਕੁ ਹੀ ਦੇਵਾ ||

For Gursikhs, there is only one Deva (God), and that is Guru-Akaal Purakh Vaheguroo.

As for "Namo Kaal Kaaley" in Siri Jaap Sahib ji, this Tuk challenges Hindu belief of Shiv being the symbol of Death (Kaal). Hindus believe it is Shiv who is responsible for the death of all beings. But Guroo Gobind Singh jee Mahaaraaj has called Vaaheguroo "Kaal Kaaley", meaning He is even above and beyond Shiv, for Vaaheguroo ji is "Sarb Shaktee Shaalee". No where in Gurbani does the term "Kaal Purakh" appear. Sikhs have always called Vaaheguroo "Akaal Purakh"(the death free Supreme Being). The term "Kaal Purakh" would then mean one who is not exempt from death (kaal), therefore challenges Guroo Sahib, Gurmat.

bhulan chukan di khima bakhshni

daas;

Jaspreet Singh

I honestly suggest to you that please read the pankti carefully and in the below mentioned kal is referred to as waheguru .

ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ

Also to be deluded of your lingering doubt please read beginning of bachitra Natak

that starts with " Sri Kal ju ki ustat". It should leave no doubt in anyone's mind what

is kal. So there is no difference between kal and akal. One is specification of waheguru

the other is functional name of waheguru.

Read also invocation of chaubis avtar for more clarification.