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Beautiful Old Manscript Of Dasam Granth


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does the passage eulogise Khanda then?

No, this passage does not eulogize naam khanda. It is a translation from a hindu purana according to which, the devi is the driving force of the world. In Krishan Avataar there are 3 kinds of passages :

1. Translations

2. Modifications (Editing)

3. New passages ( for example, the kharag singh prasang is a new creation and is not found in hindu puranas).

This passage of devi ustatt is a translation and does not represent Sikh Philosophy.

Basically, in Sri Dasam Granth stories ( Chaubis Avatar stories, charitropakhyan stories, chandi charitar stories) are REWRITTEN to impart moral, martial and bir rass lessons to Sikhs. Whenever an existing story is rewritten, some parts are translated, some parts modified and some new text is added.

Can you tell me when then in Krishnavatar, in the Kharag Singh section, which Maharaj himself created, is there updesh about doing simran on Chandi so She will help to destroy the enemies.

I am referring to when Krishna speaks to his army saying:

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਹੂੰ ਚੰਡ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ਕਰਹੁ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਜੀਤਨ ਕੋ ਬਰੁ ਦੇਇਗੀ ਅਰਿ ਤਬ ਲੀਜਹੁ ਘਾਇ ॥੧੩੨੫॥

Therefore you should also serve Chandi single-mindedly, which she will bestow the boon of victory and then you will be able to kill the enemy.1325.

ਜਾਗਤ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਗ ਜਲ ਥਲ ਰਹੀ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਹਰਿ ਰੂਪ ਮੈ ਤ੍ਰਿਗੁਨਿ ਰਹੀ ਠਹਰਾਇ ॥੧੩੨੬॥

He, whose gleaming light pervades in water, on plain and the whole world, the same is preset in Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva in the form of three modes.1326.

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥

SWAYYA

ਜਾ ਕੀ ਕਲਾ ਬਰਤੈ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਅਰੁ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਕਲਾ ਸਭ ਰੂਪਨ ਮੈ ॥ ਅਰੁ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਕਲਾ ਬਿਮਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਕਮਲਾਪਤਿ ਕੇ ਕਮਲਾ ਤਨ ਮੈ ॥

He, whose power is present in the whole world and in all forms, whose power is present in Parvati, Vishnu and Lakshsmi,

ਪੁਨਿ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਕਲਾ ਗਿਰ ਰੂਖਨ ਮੈ ਸਸਿ ਪੂਖਨ ਮੈ ਮਘਵਾ ਘਨ ਮੈ ॥ ਤੁਮਹੂੰ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨੀ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਕਲਾ ਜਗ ਮਾਨੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਮਨ ਮੈ ॥੧੩੨੭॥

And whose power is present in the mountain, tree, sun, moon, Indra and clouds also; you have not adored that Bhavani, therefore now meditate on her.1327.

In traditional Sikh Schools of thought this is considered Updesh for the Sikh Soormas. Please read Khalsa Dharam Shaastar for more information about it. It is also taught when learning about Dasam Sri Guru Granth Granth Sahib by Guru ordained Sampradyas, not modern day missionary schools which are influenced by Western concepts of God [who cannot understand the concept of Nirgun and Sargun or Shakta and Shakti].

No where does any Sikh Sampradya translate Khanda as Naam, look at Pandit Narayan Singh Ji's tika of Dasam Guru Granth Sahib, Khanda in Chandi Di vaar, which you quoted, is translated as Maya.

Why in Sarbloh does it say, Sri Maya Ji Sahai, or Sri Maya Ji Ki Ustat. Do you not believe in Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib ?

If you do not have faith in Gurbani then why bother with Sikhi.

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I dont doubt your intentions Bhai Jvala Singh Ji, but you have to realise that readers will surely get confused unless you explicitly make it clear to the reader what exactly Sri Guruji is referring t

"praise of Devi" seem to be an illogical way of seeing it. In gurmat Devi devtas dont hold any importance. Guru Sahib has refered the term 'Devi' here to His GuruDev Mata.(Nirankar) also, drawing

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Veerjeo, We have got Ram, Allah, Hari, Murari, etc. used for the same one God, but obviously Hindus and Muslims use it in different contexts. Muslims belie

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wow

never came across these things before

and

Sri maya ji sahaye????

what abt countless lines about maya in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji where maya is called as naagni who eats the world without teeth.

eh maya jit har visrey moh upjey bhao dooja laya

so confused

but that picture is just wrong

it is just like what rss doing these days by putting devi 's picture in calaneders and guru sahib around devi. If rss would have done it then people here would be shouting but it is surprise that some here are just liking it a lot just because it is drawn in dasam granth.

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so confused

but that picture is just wrong

it is just like what rss doing these days by putting devi 's picture in calaneders and guru sahib around devi. If rss would have done it then people here would be shouting but it is surprise that some here are just liking it a lot just because it is drawn in dasam granth.

typical right? anything which some of you don't understand or which isnt inline with your views is RSS? nothing wrong with it.

I guess the countless Fresco's in old gurdwareh are wrong as they have paintings of Vishnu and chandi etc?

According to you then I bet this attachment is wrong ? I bet a RSS agent went back 100's of years to paint that? ignorant guy.

ਸੁੰਭ ਬਲੁ ਧਾਰ ਸੰਘਾਰ ਕਰਵਾਰ ਕਰਿ ਸਕਲ ਖਲੁ ਅਸੁਰ ਦਲੁ ਜੈਤ ਜੈ ਚੰਡਿਕਾ ॥੨੩੦॥

guru+nanak.jpg

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Sangat ji, it is my personal view that this Bani must be taken in context. the essence of Sri Dasam Guru ka Granth is to instil Bir-Rass energy into the khalsa. this is done through combat related inspirational stories and poems to instil a mindset that one must emulate these heroes on the battlefield in abilty, but also keep their saintly reserve and always remember Waheguru.

think of it this way, before Emperor Alexander of Macedonia sent his men into battle, he would regale them with stories from Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, not because he truly believed in the divinity of the great warrior Achilles, or that he truly believed Aphrodite was enticing man into conflict, but to instil an example of a hero and a warrior energy into his men.

before Mata Gujri gave her grandsons to be executed by the emperor of india, she told them inspirational stories of their Father Guru Gobind Singh, Grandfather Guru Tegh Bahadur and Great Grandfather Guru Arjun Dev. these instilled a feeling in them that they shpuld not surrender to the demands of the emperor and inspired them with the courage to give their lives, still singing the praises of the One True Nameless Eternal and Formless Lord Waheguru.

Bhul Chuk Marf

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so confused

but that picture is just wrong

it is just like what rss doing these days by putting devi 's picture in calaneders and guru sahib around devi. If rss would have done it then people here would be shouting but it is surprise that some here are just liking it a lot just because it is drawn in dasam granth.

typical right? anything which some of you don't understand or which isnt inline with your views is RSS? nothing wrong with it.

I guess the countless Fresco's in old gurdwareh are wrong as they have paintings of Vishnu and chandi etc?

According to you then I bet this attachment is wrong ? I bet a RSS agent went back 100's of years to paint that? ignorant guy.

ਸੁੰਭ ਬਲੁ ਧਾਰ ਸੰਘਾਰ ਕਰਵਾਰ ਕਰਿ ਸਕਲ ਖਲੁ ਅਸੁਰ ਦਲੁ ਜੈਤ ਜੈ ਚੰਡਿਕਾ ॥੨੩੦॥

सु्मभ बलु धार संघार करवार करि सकल खलु असुर दलु जैत जै चंडिका ॥२३०॥

guru+nanak.jpg

I did not say that RSS did it. I am saying it is just like RSS do things these days and when RSS do these things our reaction is different but why not now?

i hope you ll like this too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Icqcdto0M

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Is it not said by Guru Gobind Singh Ji that

kwl pwie bRhmw bpu Drw ] kwl pwie isvjU Avqrw ]

kwl pwie kr ibsnupRkwsw ] skl kwl kw kIAw qmwsw ]7]

kal paehbrhma bup dhra. kal paeh siv joo avtra. kal paeh kr bisnu prkasa skl kal ka kiatmasa. (7)

Time came when Brahma appeared in physical form, thenShiva was incarnated and then Visnu. It is all the Play of the Temporal Lord.(7)

jvn kwl jogI isv kIE ] bydrwj bRhmw jU QIE ]

jvn kwl sB loksvwrw ] nmskwr hY qwih hmwrw ]8]

jvan kaljogi siv kio baid raj brahma joo thio jvn kal sabh lok svara nmskar hai taehhmara. (8)

The Temporal Lord created Shiva, the Yogi; Brahma, theUtterer of Vedas. The Temporal Lord, Who fashioned the entire Universe, Isalute to Him alone. (8)

jvn kwl sB jgq bnwXO ] dyv dYq j`Cn aupjwXo ]

Awid AMiq eykYAvqwrw ] soeI gurU smiJXhu hmwrw ]9]

jvn kalsabh jagat bnaio dev daint jchchan oopjaio adi aunti aikai avtara soei gurusmjhiayho hmara (9)

He, Who is the Creator of Time and the Universe, alsocreated the angels, demons and yakshas. He alone was in the beginningand willalso be at the end of the Time. He alone is my Guru. (9)

Sangat Ji, truly Guru sahib was aware of these existence of such spirits in the universe, but does not worship them. Instead he very clearly insists that the only one who is worthy of all worship is Akaal Purakh Waheguru!!

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Is it not said by Guru Gobind Singh Ji that

kwl pwie bRhmw bpu Drw ] kwl pwie isvjU Avqrw ]

kwl pwie kr ibsnupRkwsw ] skl kwl kw kIAw qmwsw ]7]

kal paehbrhma bup dhra. kal paeh siv joo avtra. kal paeh kr bisnu prkasa skl kal ka kiatmasa. (7)

Time came when Brahma appeared in physical form, thenShiva was incarnated and then Visnu. It is all the Play of the Temporal Lord.(7)

jvn kwl jogI isv kIE ] bydrwj bRhmw jU QIE ]

jvn kwl sB loksvwrw ] nmskwr hY qwih hmwrw ]8]

jvan kaljogi siv kio baid raj brahma joo thio jvn kal sabh lok svara nmskar hai taehhmara. (8)

The Temporal Lord created Shiva, the Yogi; Brahma, theUtterer of Vedas. The Temporal Lord, Who fashioned the entire Universe, Isalute to Him alone. (8)

jvn kwl sB jgq bnwXO ] dyv dYq j`Cn aupjwXo ]

Awid AMiq eykYAvqwrw ] soeI gurU smiJXhu hmwrw ]9]

jvn kalsabh jagat bnaio dev daint jchchan oopjaio adi aunti aikai avtara soei gurusmjhiayho hmara (9)

He, Who is the Creator of Time and the Universe, alsocreated the angels, demons and yakshas. He alone was in the beginningand willalso be at the end of the Time. He alone is my Guru. (9)

Sangat Ji, truly Guru sahib was aware of these existence of such spirits in the universe, but does not worship them. Instead he very clearly insists that the only one who is worthy of all worship is Akaal Purakh Waheguru!!

this is what i agree with

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Alot of this chandi, devteh, durga in dasam granth/ sarbloh granth etc.. leaves alot of people baffled in my opinion. Hence why we have people thinking that these granths are not of the gurus. On the flip side the other pro side blame the others for not understanding.

I think what needs to be done is explanations of such concepts.

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Basically, Maya is also a power but is INFERIOR to Naam Khanda(which is the driving force of the Creation). Maya is naganni but becomes servant of Gurmukhs. Gurmukhs DEFEAT maya by Naam and thus maya becomes a servant of Gurmukhs. Thats why we have Sri Maya jee Sahayee etc....

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guru+nanak.jpg

Dhan Dhan Satguru Maharaj Guru Nanak Devji was not like these fake devi devte. If this picture of Nirankar Saroop Guru Nanak was painted in a Gurdwara/e then the painter was not true Sikh, he was a brahmin in disguise of Sikh. It was malicious acts of individuals with malicious intent which prompted great Sikhs of Guru to come together and start Singh Sabha. I myself have not seen any such picture in any Gurdwara and rest assured if i did i will remove it immediatly whatever the consequence. Guru Nanak was not worshipper of Ik Onkaar, He gave the world the truth about Ik Onkaar, Ik Onkaar is in this world of Guru Nanak. Sikhs of Guru believe only in Guru and the unseen, unborn Nirankaar. These Devi Devte are for fateless wretched souls who will burn in hell forever while the Guru will guide and save his Sikh from jamdoots (including Devi or whatever). The Devi and other stuff is for lost souls who are not blessed by Guru, and Sikhs of Guru are not one of them.

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This passage of devi ustatt is a translation and does not represent Sikh Philosophy.

Have you read that passage in krishna avtar. If you had you would not have written the above.

This is ustat of akal purakh and not any eight armed devi of Hinduism.

Devi in Dasam Granth is parkirti. It is ignorance to interpret Dasam Granth with Hindu terminology.

Dasam granth is not that simple granth where literal meanings are applicable. It is full of metaphors.

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The original poster had given the below mentioned passage from chandi charitra. He calls it devi ji ki ustat.

. He needs to read it carefully and not pick at random some verses.Here devi is reference to power of akal purakh.It is important to know what type of devi is described in that ustat.

Below is given those verses.It is Eulogy of God and not any devi of Hinduism or Durga.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥

दोहरा ॥

DOHRA

ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਸਿੰਧ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜੋ ਕਛੁ ਮੋ ਪਰਿ ਹੋਇ ॥

क्रिपा सिंध तुमरी क्रिपा जो कछु मो परि होइ ॥

O Ocean of Mercy, if Thy Grace is bestowed upon me:

ਰਚੋ ਚੰਡਿਕਾ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸੁਭ ਸਭ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

रचो चंडिका की कथा बाणी सुभ सभ होइ ॥२॥

I may compose the story of Chandika and my poetry be all good.2.

ਜੋਤ ਜਗਮਗੈ ਜਗਤਿ ਮੈ ਚੰਡ ਚਮੁੰਡ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡ ॥

जोत जगमगै जगति मै चंड चमुंड प्रचंड ॥

Thy light is shining in the world, O Powerful Chand-Chamunda!

ਭੁਜ ਦੰਡਨ ਦੰਡਨਿ ਅਸੁਰ ਮੰਡਨ ਭੁਇ ਨਵ ਖੰਡ ॥੩॥

भुज दंडन दंडनि असुर मंडन भुइ नव खंड ॥३॥

Thou art the Punisher of the demons with Thy strong arms and art the Creator of the nine regions.3.

ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥

स्वैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਤਾਰਨ ਲੋਕ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਭੂਮਹਿ ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਨ ਚੰਡਿ ਤੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥

तारन लोक उधारन भूमहि दैत संघारन चंडि तुही है ॥

It is you who is creator of chandi, who ferries across the people; Thou art the redeemer of the earth and destroyer of the demons.

ਕਾਰਨ ਈਸ ਕਲਾ ਕਮਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਅਦ੍ਰਸੁਤਾ ਜਹ ਦੇਖੇ ਉਹੀ ਹੈ ॥

कारन ईस कला कमला हरि अद्रसुता जह देखे उही है ॥

Thou art the cause of the Shakti of Shiva, Lakshmi of Vishnu and Parvati, the daughter of Himavan, wherever we see, Thou art there.

ਤਾਮਸਤਾ ਮਮਤਾ ਨਮਤਾ ਕਵਿਤਾ ਕਵਿ ਕੇ ਮਨ ਮਧਿ ਗੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥

तामसता ममता नमता कविता कवि के मन मधि गुही है ॥

Thou art Tams, the quality of morbidity, mineness and modesty; Thou art poetry, latent in the mind of the poet.

ਕੀਨੋ ਹੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਲੋਹ ਜਗਤ੍ਰ ਮੈ ਪਾਰਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਜਾਇ ਛੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥੪॥

कीनो है कंचन लोह जगत्र मै पारस मूरति जाइ छुही है ॥४॥

Thou art the philosopher`s stone in the world, which transforms the iron into gold that it touches.4.

Chandi charitra ukti bilas

Let us analyse what is written in Dasam Granth sahib and not follow blindly what is written on someone's blog.

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The original poster had given the below mentioned passage from chandi charitra. He calls it devi ji ki ustat.

That is sheer ignorance. He needs to read it carefully and not pick at random some verses.

Below is given those verses.It is Eulogy of God and not any devi of Hinduism or Durga.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥

दोहरा ॥

DOHRA

ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਸਿੰਧ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜੋ ਕਛੁ ਮੋ ਪਰਿ ਹੋਇ ॥

क्रिपा सिंध तुमरी क्रिपा जो कछु मो परि होइ ॥

O Ocean of Mercy, if Thy Grace is bestowed upon me:

ਰਚੋ ਚੰਡਿਕਾ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸੁਭ ਸਭ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

रचो चंडिका की कथा बाणी सुभ सभ होइ ॥२॥

I may compose the story of Chandika and my poetry be all good.2.

ਜੋਤ ਜਗਮਗੈ ਜਗਤਿ ਮੈ ਚੰਡ ਚਮੁੰਡ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡ ॥

जोत जगमगै जगति मै चंड चमुंड प्रचंड ॥

Thy light is shining in the world, O Powerful Chand-Chamunda!

ਭੁਜ ਦੰਡਨ ਦੰਡਨਿ ਅਸੁਰ ਮੰਡਨ ਭੁਇ ਨਵ ਖੰਡ ॥੩॥

भुज दंडन दंडनि असुर मंडन भुइ नव खंड ॥३॥

Thou art the Punisher of the demons with Thy strong arms and art the Creator of the nine regions.3.

ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥

स्वैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਤਾਰਨ ਲੋਕ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਭੂਮਹਿ ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਨ ਚੰਡਿ ਤੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥

तारन लोक उधारन भूमहि दैत संघारन चंडि तुही है ॥

It is you who is creator of chandi, who ferries across the people; Thou art the redeemer of the earth and destroyer of the demons.

ਕਾਰਨ ਈਸ ਕਲਾ ਕਮਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਅਦ੍ਰਸੁਤਾ ਜਹ ਦੇਖੇ ਉਹੀ ਹੈ ॥

कारन ईस कला कमला हरि अद्रसुता जह देखे उही है ॥

Thou art the cause of the Shakti of Shiva, Lakshmi of Vishnu and Parvati, the daughter of Himavan, wherever we see, Thou art there.

ਤਾਮਸਤਾ ਮਮਤਾ ਨਮਤਾ ਕਵਿਤਾ ਕਵਿ ਕੇ ਮਨ ਮਧਿ ਗੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥

तामसता ममता नमता कविता कवि के मन मधि गुही है ॥

Thou art Tams, the quality of morbidity, mineness and modesty; Thou art poetry, latent in the mind of the poet.

ਕੀਨੋ ਹੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਲੋਹ ਜਗਤ੍ਰ ਮੈ ਪਾਰਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਜਾਇ ਛੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥੪॥

कीनो है कंचन लोह जगत्र मै पारस मूरति जाइ छुही है ॥४॥

Thou art the philosopher`s stone in the world, which transforms the iron into gold that it touches.4.

Chandi charitra ukti bilas

Let us analyse what is written in Dasam Granth sahib and not follow blindly what is written on someone's blog.

Excuse me, but I did not just put the title "Devi Ju Ki Ustat", but Maharaj himself wrote it.

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=645&english=t&id=89846

There is the link to the post that I put up, if you have an issue with Gurbani, talk to Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

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I dont doubt your intentions Bhai Jvala Singh Ji, but you have to realise that readers will surely get confused unless you explicitly make it clear to the reader what exactly Sri Guruji is referring to with the use of word 'devi'. A brief explanation along with the line by line translation would be helpful. just my advice.

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Veer jee, In Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, stories are REWRITTEN which means some parts of the story are just translated, some parts edited and some new parts added. This praise of devi is just the translation and these are not the views of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee.

We are still not able to comprehend inspite of analysis by PJS and then beautiful line given by gurvah.

PLease note devi meaning in dasam granth is not same as the meaning of Devi in hindu literature.

Devi of dasam granth is not eight armed deity of Hindu faith.So do not be misled by word devi in

Dasam Granth sahib. This is the mistake kala afghana sect also makes.

Devi of dasam granth is shakti of akal purakh which is ever present, has no beginning and has no end.

This shakti creates and subsumes these deities.

ਤਾਰਨ ਲੋਕ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਭੂਮਹਿ ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਨ ਚੰਡਿ ਤੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥

तारन लोक उधारन भूमहि दैत संघारन चंडि तुही है ॥

Thou art the chandi, the killer of demons; Thou art the redeemer of the earth.

ਕਾਰਨ ਈਸ ਕਲਾ ਕਮਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਅਦ੍ਰਸੁਤਾ ਜਹ ਦੇਖੇ ਉਹੀ ਹੈ ॥

कारन ईस कला कमला हरि अद्रसुता जह देखे उही है ॥

You are the primal power, you are the source of shiva's power, vishnu's, lakhshmi and parvati

Chandi charitra ukti bilas.

Obviously Guru sahib means akal purakh when he writes ab devi ji ki ustat.

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    • This is what I'm talking about. Can you imagine this happening in Europe and the USA let alone India? Apne are just as bad as respecting whites over others and this is seen in pretty much every other ethnic group. The main reasons are- the vast majority of white nations don't have abject poverty and they have invented and discovered so many things. People therefore think that whites are rich and that also gets them respect. Do you think a Korean or Japanese will get respect by the average Indian in India? They'll probably get mistaken for a poor Nepali or North East Indian and be called chinky.
    • True bro in 2011 when 1.7% of Indians were enumerated as Sikhs that translated as 20million Sikhs back in 2011. The problem is that with a vastly below replacement fertility rate since 2011 there is no guarantee that Sikhs will be much more than 20million by 2050 or the 2051 census when the Indian population is projected to 1,650-1,700 million with Muslims on track to be 350million among that figure. The Sikh population in India needs to be 100million plus strong by the planned census of 2051 if we diaspora Sikhs do our best to financially support education, healthcare and parchaar to the most economically weak communities in Punjab and throughout India.
    • Scomo is just doing what every politician does. Remeber when there were state elections a few years ago, had a few politicians come to the gurdwara on a few Sunday afternoons while all the aunties and uncles could not understand a thing.
    • Day 1 finally got up at 4am today without alarm clock, hoping to keep it going this summer
    • Not really but been to some south east asian countries like Thailand,Singapore and stuff but I'm talking about like korea and japan and the people from there that i have met. They seem just as materialistic. They also see the world in hierarchies and think whites at top and then them at 2nd and all of us below them. I had many east asians in my uni including international students. They will respect white people way more than they will respect other people of color. Maybe it was the past that the societies had an influence of confucion thought like in Punjab sikhi uplifted many people but look at the state of it today. Even Korea now is largely influenced  by Christianity since America helped them rebuild their society and anyone can tell its a largely materialistic society at this point. Also the spiritual Japanese culture is long gone now.
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