Sacrilege At Rochester Gurdwara

[CharlesKnuckles]

Is the kirpan now allowed?

The last time I talked with the GOR's Trustees, yes Kirpans, not long swords, are allowed.

The only reason that the Kirpan was even brought into this issue was because the 4 banned insurgents were photographed brandishing swords inside of the Gurdwara in an attempt to intimidate the Trustees and the Sangat. Had these fundementalists acted appropriately, then there would have never been an issue.

[GPS]

There is a sikh code of conduct that governs sikhs in regards to their religious observations.

Sikhism is a religion of miri and piri.

Apart from Guru Granth sahib there is temporal aspect that invests authrotiy as a Guru in

five beloved ones.Thta regulates sikh's worldly life. Five beloved ones were those who were

first baptized by Guru Gobind singh ji.

Yes they wear kirpan as ordained by Guru sahib.

Take some education in sikh history before preaching home made theories to us.

[CharlesKnuckles]

There is a sikh code of conduct that governs sikhs in regards to their religious observations.

Sikhism is a religion of miri and piri.

Apart from Guru Granth sahib there is temporal aspect that invests authrotiy as a Guru in

five beloved ones.Thta regulates sikh's worldly life. Five beloved ones were those who were

first baptized by Guru Gobind singh ji.

Yes they wear kirpan as ordained by Guru sahib.

Take some education in sikh history before preaching home made theories to us.

Your interpretations of Sikh teachings does not make you an expert or give you any heavenly insight above and beyond any other Sikh. Repeating things that are written on the Internet does not make you a Sikh scholar nor are you in any position to question another Sikh’s knowledge of history or interpretation of the Guru’s teachings.

Having said that, you made a very valid point in your post: There is a code of conduct for Sikhs.

The four people and their families that have been banned from the Gurdwara of Rochester have certainly violated this code:

- Brandishing weapons inside of a Gurdwara

- Vulgarity in the Gurdwara

- Lying and distorting the truth

- Selling meat and alcohol for profit and then claiming to be devout Sikhs

- Slander and intimidation of Sangat members

After many attempts to appease this group of people, their behavior became more and more disruptive. These disruptive people were told to leave and not return to the Gurdwara.

Those are the facts…As I have said, people can believe whatever they choose to.

[GPS]

To ban anyone form entering Gurudwara is an unsikh practice.

Moreover persons managing this so called Gurudwara are apostates.

They do not look like sikhs.They have made this gurudwara as their private

enterprise.

[CharlesKnuckles]

To ban anyone form entering Gurudwara is an unsikh practice.

Moreover persons managing this so called Gurudwara are apostates.

They do not look like sikhs.They have made this gurudwara as their private

enterprise.

Unfortunately when there is no reasoning with people who are trying to start trouble, you have to resort to legal action.

Additionally, it speaks volumes when a Sikh is judged by the length of their beard and not by the content of their character. Just because someone wears a turban, has a beard, and carries a Kirpan it does not make them a good Sikh.

[JasSinghKhalsa]

The last time I talked with the GOR's Trustees, yes Kirpans, not long swords, are allowed.

The only reason that the Kirpan was even brought into this issue was because the 4 banned insurgents were photographed brandishing swords inside of the Gurdwara in an attempt to intimidate the Trustees and the Sangat. Had these fundementalists acted appropriately, then there would have never been an issue.

Charles - it is really good to hear both sides of the story. So, would this be possible to scan and upload these photographs OR any other evidences mentioned by you?

[CharlesKnuckles]

Charles - it is really good to hear both sides of the story. So, would this be possible to scan and upload these photographs OR any other evidences mentioned by you?

This case, although it is coming to closure, is still active in the NYC Court System. However, I believe you should be able to request the evidence from the State of New York, under FIA, for court case 10/3672.

[JasSinghKhalsa]

Charles - Sangat does not has go to NYC to ask for evidences .

On a similar aspect, you don't have to advocate GOR over here, as if you think judgement from NYC is any way the most important for you OR GOR Trustees, then advocating on Sikh Forums for what purpose ???

However, it is you who have brought forward the GOR point of view to Sangat, and you are putting the argument that all videos shown etc. by Amritdharis to Sangat and on Youtube are fabricated and edited and then for evidences for GOR side of the story - go to NYC?

Also, you are putting the statement that you don't care whether one believes in the story you are putting down OR not.

Sorry, but I am unable to digest the point of view of GOR you are trying to prove - I know there are issues in Gurudwara Managements; but this one not looking the same.

But I am finding difficult to understand - If you / GOR trustees don't care about what Sangat On Forums such as SikhSangat Or how Sikh Sangat throughout the world looks about it (You have earlier made the statement - It does not matters how any body views / interprets this?) , and then you don't even have any evidences to put forward - Then, why bother wasting your time over here? Just bother getting a +ve judgement from NYC OR appropriate court?

[CharlesKnuckles]

Charles - Sangat does not has go to NYC to ask for evidences .

On a similar aspect, you don't have to advocate GOR over here, as if you think judgement from NYC is any way the most important for you OR GOR Trustees, then advocating on Sikh Forums for what purpose ???

However, it is you who have brought forward the GOR point of view to Sangat, and you are putting the argument that all videos shown etc. by Amritdharis to Sangat and on Youtube are fabricated and edited and then for evidences for GOR side of the story - go to NYC?

Also, you are putting the statement that you don't care whether one believes in the story you are putting down OR not.

Sorry, but I am unable to digest the point of view of GOR you are trying to prove - I know there are issues in Gurudwara Managements; but this one not looking the same.

But I am finding difficult to understand - If you / GOR trustees don't care about what Sangat On Forums such as SikhSangat Or how Sikh Sangat throughout the world looks about it (You have earlier made the statement - It does not matters how any body views / interprets this?) , and then you don't even have any evidences to put forward - Then, why bother wasting your time over here? Just bother getting a +ve judgement from NYC OR appropriate court?

Quite Frankly, the internet is loaded with distorted video and blog posts that have not represented the actual events at the GOR. As a lifetime member of the GOR, I have asked the GOR to respond, with the facts of this case, to Sikh organizations that are being overloaded with distorted facts. However, the GOR Management Group does not with to comment because they realize that this issue with a small group of insurgents is not going to be solved in the court of public opinion but in the court of law.

I agree with the logic of the GOR Management. However, I think that some communication needs to be put out to help balance what is being posted everywhere.

Ultimately it is up to each Sikh to decide on their own but they should know both sides of the story.

[GPS]

Quite Frankly, the internet is loaded with distorted video and blog posts that have not represented the actual events at the GOR. As a lifetime member of the GOR, I have asked the GOR to respond, with the facts of this case, to Sikh organizations that are being overloaded with distorted facts. However, the GOR Management Group does not with to comment because they realize that this issue with a small group of insurgents is not going to be solved in the court of public opinion but in the court of law.

I agree with the logic of the GOR Management. However, I think that some communication needs to be put out to help balance what is being posted everywhere.

Ultimately it is up to each Sikh to decide on their own but they should know both sides of the story.

What is your role in this? Are you hired by GOR? Are you a sikh?

While agree that there may be factional issues between two parties but

i am not able to understand why they ban the kirpan worn by singhs.

You wrote

Additionally, it speaks volumes when a Sikh is judged by the length of their beard and not by the content of their character. Just because someone wears a turban, has a beard, and carries a Kirpan it does not make them a good Sikh.

One of the basic reuirement of ikhism is tom have hair. Are you telling us that people managing GOR have formulated new

guidelines for sikhism?

How do you know that managment of POR are good sikhs?

They have abandoned basics of sikhism and hence are apostates.In simple language

they do not qualify to be sikhs.