Sacrilege At Rochester Gurdwara

[nanosecond]

[Singh559]

This is horrible, i'm utterly speechless.

Waheguru, thanks for the post, the jatha is great.

I like how they do kirtan in protest, very nice.

[nanosecond]

I think the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takth should summon these Masands and excommunicate them.And the sikhs should go together and peacefully take out the Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Saroop, and the name plate of 'Gurdwara' and Nishan Sahib from the place.

[Singh559]

I think the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takth should summon these Masands and excommunicate them.And the sikhs should go together and peacefully take out the Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Saroop, and the name plate of 'Gurdwara' and Nishan Sahib from the place.

100% Agreed.

Is it just me, or does this remind me of something similar to The Last Samurai. How the advisers to the emperor said that the katana was no longer needed in the building as it was now a nation of laws. The samurai's reply was this was the sword that protected the emperor...

[CharlesKnuckles]

To the Sikh Community:

There has been much untruth told regarding this case against a small group of insurgent/fundamentalist Sikhs that have been banned from the Gurdwara of Rochester.

Each person can believe what they want to believe. However, evidence and affidavits have been presented to the New York State Supreme Court and an impartial judge made a judgment based on this evidence and based what the judge considered a public safety hazard.

The GOR committee brought a court case against 4 Sikhs, and their families, because they were openly vulgar, openly abusive, and acted to undermine the Elected Trustees and associated Committees of the GOR. These insurgents were disrupting services openly and in a vulgar manner in front of the Guru Garnth Sahib. These people were not bringing Kirpans, but were bringing (and brandishing) long swords in an attempt to intimidate Committee members, their families, and other members of the GOR Sangat. The insurgents resorted to these methods because they lost open elections in the Gurdwara by a 2:1 margin and could not accept that their fundamentalist views were in the minority within the Sangat.

Evidence of the violent nature of these insurgents was presented in open court. Evidence included but was not limited to:

1) Video surveillance of one of the defendants openly, and violently, challenging the New York Supreme Court judge in front of the Guru Garnth Sahib.

2) Pictures of one of the defendant, from his Facebook page, posing with a brandished Kirpan in a violent and non-defensive manner.

3) Pictures of one defendant brandishing a 2 ½ foot sword inside of the Gurdwara.

This evidence was available for the defendants to challenge but they could not defend their own actions that were caught on film and tape. Additionally, one of the defendants was already a convicted felon and criminal at the time of these proceedings.

In court documents presented by the GOR, it was suggested that long swords were not needed in the Gurdwara and that many Sikhs, in the United States, wear small symbolic kirpans. The General Secretary of the GOR specifically requested to the Judge, that Kirpans, up to 6 inches, should be allowed in the GOR.

The judge acted to ban all Kirpans, based on the actions of a few disruptive people, and did not understand the cultural impact of doing so. Since then, the GOR has acted to have the judge revise the ruling to allow 6 inch Kirpans. This was not done out of community pressure, but was done to correct something in the original ruling that the Judge did not understand.

The GOR has been under siege for many years by fundamentalist groups from Buffalo and Syracuse trying to take over this Gurdwara. The GOR decided that they are no longer going to tolerate the hostile activities of Fundamental Sikhs and moved to have this Gurdwara placed under Article 9. This makes the GOR private property and allows the GOR to remove disruptive or violent people in order to protect the vast majority of the Sangat.

The insurgents and their supporters are resorting to using skewed facts to bring public pressure on the GOR. These tactics have included highly edited video, distributed via Youtube, articles claiming the Armritdhai Sikhs have been banned from the Gurdwara of Rochester, and holding orchestrated protests of people who do not even live in the Rocheter area.

However, the GOR knows that this case is going to be settled in the New York Supreme Court and not in the court of public opinion. As much as I have requested that the GOR release some statements to the Sikh community, the GOR has insisted on being silent because there are still open items that need to be resolved in court. In short, they will not make any official statements until all litigation proceedings are concluded.

Everyone: Sikh, Indian, Hindu, White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic are welcome at the Gurdwara of Rochester. They have been welcomed from the first gatherings of the GOR at the Ashram in the yearly 70’s. However, if people choose to be disruptive, violent, or indecent at the GOR, especially in the presence of the Guru Garnth Sahib, they will be asked to leave and worship someplace else.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

[JasSinghKhalsa]

Charles - Don't think what you are trying to defend is correct.

These YouTube videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3XaH2pYTDM&feature=related expose it all.

This is not about any US/India court, the ruling of Akal Takht is the final - Manmat Maryada of some Mahants can't be honoured.

[CharlesKnuckles]

Charles - Don't think what you are trying to defend is correct.

These YouTube videos http://www.youtube.c...feature=related expose it all.

This is not about any US/India court, the ruling of Akal Takht is the final - Manmat Maryada of some Mahants can't be honoured.

----

Jas Singh Khalsa,

The video that you have linked is actually seven to eight different videos, all taken at several different occasions, and spliced together to distort actual events and facts. Please look a little closer at the editing, fade in and out, camera angles, who is in the Gurdwara, what they are wearing, etc...

I have asked the poster of this video (AkalPurakh1) to post the original, unedited videos, in their entirety. He has ignored these requests and erased my comments on Youtube because it proves that the insurgent group are distorting actual facts.

Again, you can believe what you want. However, the facts are the facts.

[GPS]

The facts are that sikh Temples are not private property of any individuals.They belong to Sangat.

The fact is that Sikh temples are open to whole humanity and no restriction is put on entry of anyone.

The fact is that sikh Gurudwaras are managed by Amritdhari sikhs.

The fact is that All Amritdhari sikhs wear kirpan as ordained by tenth sikh master.

The fact is that wordly courts do not issue order on protocols sikh temples.They fall under akal

takhat and they obey akal takhat.

[CharlesKnuckles]

The facts are that sikh Temples are not private property of any individuals.They belong to Sangat.

The fact is that Sikh temples are open to whole humanity and no restriction is put on entry of anyone.

The fact is that sikh Gurudwaras are managed by Amritdhari sikhs.

The fact is that All Amritdhari sikhs wear kirpan as ordained by tenth sikh master.

The fact is that wordly courts do not issue order on protocols sikh temples.They fall under akal

takhat and they obey akal takhat.

I think facts and opinions are two different things:

1) "The facts are that Sikh Temples are not private property of any individuals. They belong to Sangat." - In the United States, Property is owned by a group or individuals. The GOR is a group that owns the property and the structure that is on it. Since there is no hierarchy with the Sikh Religion (like the Catholic Church), that oversaw the assembly of the Sangat, paid for the property, or paid for the structure, this Gurdwara (and any other in the United States) are independent Gurdwaras belonging to no higher Sikh Organization.

2) "The fact is that Sikh temples are open to whole humanity and no restriction is put on entry of anyone." - The GOR has been open to anyone, Sikh or non-Sikh, since the beginning of the GOR. However, if there are people that enter this building with the sole intent on intimidating the Sangat and causing unruly behavior, they will be asked to leave and not return. That is the case of the 4 people (and their immediate families) that have been banned from the GOR.

3) "The fact is that Sikh Gurudwaras are managed by Amritdhari Sikhs." - Again, since Sikhism does not have an official hierarchy like the Catholic Church, then your interpretation of the management of Gurdwaras, in the United States, is strictly opinion. Additionally, there is nothing, that I know of, in the Guru Granth Sahib that states only Amritdhari Sikhs can run Gurdwaras. The GOR was formed by both Unshaven and Clean Shaven Sikhs that welcomed everyone. To state that only a certain 'class' of Sikhs may run a Gurdwara seems to contradict everything that the Gurus have taught.

4) "The fact is that All Amritdhari Sikhs wear kirpan as ordained by tenth Sikh master." - Guru Gobind Singh did want baptized Sikhs to wear a Kirpan. However, there is nothing in the Guru Granth Sahib that states what EXACTLY a Kirpan is, how big it needs to be, or what can constitute what wearing a Kirpan was. However, the Guru did teach that there is a specific time and place to draw a Kirpan. The 4 people that were banned from the GOR brandished their swords, in an intimidating and outwardly offensive manner, inside the GOR. When the New York State judge saw photographic evidence of this, he banned all Kirpans as a safety concern. The judge, who is not a Sikh, did not realize the cultural impact of his decision and the GOR has had the judge reverse his decision on banning Kirpans.

5) "The fact is that wordly courts do not issue order on protocols Sikh temples.They fall under akal takhat and they obey akal takhat." - The Fact of the matter is that in the United States, the courts, and the government, do issue protocols and judgment when public safety is at risk.

As I have mentioned, there is a lot of propaganda regarding this issue being distributed by the 4 banned insurgents and their sympathizers. However, they can only blame their banishment on their own disgraceful actions inside the Gurdwara of Rochester.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

[Singh559]

Is the kirpan now allowed?