Uprising In Egypt, Tunisia & Rest Of The Arab World

[HSD1]

Its funny but when unrest like this starts to occur, you begin to realise how many "puppet", U.S.-friendly Muslim prime ministers and presidents are installed in various Islamic countries in Africa, etc. The corrupt leadership of Tunisia (who fled to Disneyland, lol), and now the almost dictator-like leadership of Egypt (he hasn't lost an election in 30 years) - its all set-up by the U.S. to protect their interests.

It's true. A more democratic middle east would be less willing to take crap from the outside, whether its the west and israel or iran, so no wonder the west tries to keep them down and pretend that the world is 'free' apart from the places the west decides to start wars with.

One thing I have noticed that the Police and armed forces have not killing their own people on mass during the demos. In India thousands were killed by the forces. The Police do not hesitate to use live ammunition in India.

Could we see the people uprising in India the 80 % who have been left out of economic progress? The recent reports of 35% of Indias wealth having dissapeared offshore taken by its leaders since 1947 has got people angry.

Any uprising in india would have to be nationwide and involve everyone. The army and police would have to be convinced to change sides as well. I dont think there is the organisation or willpower for that to happen.

[VanHelsingh]

Any uprising in india would have to be nationwide and involve everyone. The army and police would have to be convinced to change sides as well. I dont think there is the organisation or willpower for that to happen.

The problem (if you can call it that) is the Hindu middle to upper classes in India are - relatively - content and satisfied. Some run businesses and most have professional jobs in which they are plodding along in life. They have no reason to rise-up against the government.

Now, if we're talking about the lower, poverty-stricken classes of India (the street people or the immensely poor villagers) they simply haven't got the heart to fight. They'd lose too much and gain very little.

[lsingh]

The problem (if you can call it that) is the Hindu middle to upper classes in India are - relatively - content and satisfied. Some run businesses and most have professional jobs in which they are plodding along in life. They have no reason to rise-up against the government.

Now, if we're talking about the lower, poverty-stricken classes of India (the street people or the immensely poor villagers) they simply haven't got the heart to fight. They'd lose too much and gain very little.

Money being siphoned off by corrupt Indians

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/2011/01/indias_black_money_hoodwinking_the_people.html

Hereditary Monarchy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/2011/01/is_india_sliding_into_a.html

Is India sliding into a hereditary monarchy?

Soutik Biswas | 09:18 UK time, Tuesday, 18 January 2011

Is India sliding into a pseudo monarchy of sorts? In his splendid new book, India: A Portrait, historian Patrick French dredges up some startling data on the stranglehold of family and lineage on Indian politics.

The research finds that though less than a third of India's parliamentarians had a hereditary connection, things get worse with the younger MPs. Consider this:

•Every MP in the Lok Sabha or the lower house of the Indian parliament under the age of 30 had inherited a seat.

•More than two thirds of the 66 MPs aged 40 or under are hereditary MPs.

•Every Congress MP under the age of 35 was a hereditary MP.

•Nearly 40% of the 66 ministers who are members of the Lok Sabha were hereditary members.

•Nearly 70% of the women MPs have family connections.

Interestingly, for MPs over 50, the proportion with a father or relative in politics was a rather modest 17.9%. But when you looked at those aged 50 or under, this increased by more than two and a half times to nearly half, or 47.2%.

Also most of the younger hereditary MPs - and ministers - have not made a mark and sometimes have been shockingly conservative in their actions. A young MP from feudal Haryana, for example, was seen to be cosying up to extra-constitutional village councils in the state which were punishing couples for marrying outside their caste and clan.

"If the trend continued," concludes French, "it was possible that most members of the Indian Parliament would be there by heredity alone, and the nation would be back to where it had started before the freedom struggle, with rule by a hereditary monarch and assorted Indian princelings." He also worries the next Lok Sabha will be a "house of dynasts".

Most agree that growing nepotistic and lineage-based power in the world's largest democracy is a matter of concern. "The idea of India," political scientist Mahesh Rangarajan told me, "is rent apart by these two contradictory impulses."

But nepotism is a part of India life; and politics mirrors society. Power, wealth, land and status have hinged to a large extent on who your parents were, what they owned and where they stood in society. Most Indian businesses continue to be owned and run by families though the new economy is throwing up more first generation entrepreneurs. Bollywood, India's thriving film industry, is dominated by sons and daughters of famous actors and producers. Three members of one family - Nehru-Gandhi - have held the post of prime minister. If the Congress party wins the next elections and PM Manmohan Singh steps down, there is a likelihood of the dynast Rahul Gandhi becoming India's next prime minister. (It is no surprise that 37% of the MPs - 78 of 208 - in Congress are hereditary compared to only 19% hereditary MPs - 22 of the 116 - in the main opposition BJP.)

Despite French's troubling data, all may not be lost. "Please remember," Dr Rangarajan told me, "the MPs have lineage as a huge plus, but the posts are not hereditary." In other words, if they fail to deliver, they will be voted out of power. Merit triumphed over dynasty in the recent elections in dirt-poor Bihar. So though lineage remains a key factor in politics, remind analysts, it can only give a headstart, and nothing more. Thank democracy for that.

[VanHelsingh]

(Seriously off-topic)....One could argue that similar nepotism and the policy of "its not what you know, but who you know" is practiced in so-called progressive countries such as the UK, U.S.A, etc., whereby internships, lucrative employment offers, etc., are handed out amongst the ruling elite and their privately educated offspring and related associates. It happens everywhere although some countries like to offer the illusion that everything is fair and even-handed, when we know for a fact that it absolutely isn't.

But I totally understand the situation as described by Isingh - India (and places like it) make it so obvious. :D

[JasSinghKhalsa]

One thing is interesting - their military is not taking any action on the protesters; even though tanks are in the city - Indian military used their own tanks on their own people in Amritsar (this is another thing that they don't consider Sikhs as a part of their main mainstream and Sikhs in India are 2nd class citizens) and even raged those tanks on Akal Takht Sahib.

The problem (if you can call it that) is the Hindu middle to upper classes in India are - relatively - content and satisfied. Some run businesses and most have professional jobs in which they are plodding along in life. They have no reason to rise-up against the government.

[/Quote]

TRUE, The corrupt regime running in India is suiting 95% of the majority's agenda. The fight for independence from Mughals and British too was started and sacrifices given by Sikhs, irony is power hijacked by BrahXXX and BaniXXX, to be honest, kingdom's can and should be run by warriors/Kshyatrias who have the courage to fight/give their blood for motherland, and who have the courage to deliver justice. We can see the justice delivered by now a day rulers in India, it is the same even for middle class Hindus - but they are satisfied.

[VanHelsingh]

One thing is interesting - their military is not taking any action on the protesters; even though tanks are in the city - Indian military used their own tanks on their own people in Amritsar (this is another thing that they don't consider Sikhs as a part of their main mainstream and Sikhs in India are 2nd class citizens) and even raged those tanks on Akal Takht Sahib.

TRUE, The corrupt regime running in India is suiting 95% of the majority's agenda. The fight for independence from Mughals and British too was started and sacrifices given by Sikhs, irony is power hijacked by BrahXXX and BaniXXX, to be honest, kingdom's can and should be run by warriors/Kshyatrias who have the courage to fight/give their blood for motherland, and who have the courage to deliver justice. We can see the justice delivered by now a day rulers in India, it is the same even for middle class Hindus - but they are satisfied.

The Indian government would argue that its a small minority (Sikhs) that are causing "trouble", whereas the rest of the population (the one's they selectively choose to see) are content. The problem is that its this so-called minority that has done the most for the country. Yet our achievements are almost being air-brushed out of history so as to minimise our positive impact on the country, and our right to justice and equality.

Had the Sikhs been blessed with savvy, forward-thinking leaders - after the lifetime of Dasme Paatsha - who had taken Guru Gobind Singh Ji's splendid idea of taking Amrit and rendering all classes as equal, such leaders would've realised that everything is a numbers game. They could've targetted the aforementioned poverty-stricken classes and said, "Look, you don't have to be the down-trodden or the misfortunate forever. If you want to embrace Sikhi, then you shall become part of a brotherhood where you will not have to live in shame and be treated like sub-humans". Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this Guru Ji's original intention?

Had someone with the fore-thought of not just their own lifetime but for the eternal survival of Sikhi, carried on this mission we could've seen huge swathes of India become Sikh. I'm referring to a concerted effort - a determined policy to swell the ranks of Sikhs in India, if you will. We needed a canny political thinker and quom-forwarders. We've never been short of mighty warriors - it would've been nice to have someone mighty cerebral too (again, I'm referring to the years after our Gurus).

But instead we fell into the trap of kingdom-making and wealth accumulation (in the times of the Sikh Raaj), and we eventually were harried back into Panjab, and that's where we remain to this day. It was a missed opportunity because nobody stepped up and further watered the frankly marvellous seed that Guru Gobind Singh Ji planted.

By the time Sant Ji arrived on the scene, it was about the survivial of Sikhi itself - never mind its expansion into other frontiers. Whilst he was successful in his mission, it was a rescue from a situation that could've been avoided if action had been taken 100's of years prior to 1984.

Back to the topic in hand (:BL:), when uprisings in Egypt, Tunisia, etc., begin to occur it just makes me think about our own situation and how things desperately need to change.

[genie]

We should stand in solidity with the Egyptian people for their human right of self determination and freedom against hypocritically western government backed dictatorship.

Our governments in the west should know we cant deal with corrupt regimes any more, they need to be accountable for showing support to governments that use overt and covert state terrorism.

[VanHelsingh]

We should stand in solidity with the Egyptian people for their human right of self determination and freedom against hypocritically western government backed dictatorship.

Our governments in the west should know we cant deal with corrupt regimes any more, they need to be accountable for showing support to governments that use overt and covert state terrorism.

You see, that's where people (like us) in Western countries will never revolt. We're given a certain amount of (strictly regulated) leeway in order to lead our lives as we see fit, BUT within the remit of how "they" want us to live. Sure, we don't live in poverty and there are a few decent opportunities to make something of our lives, but everything is not as transparent and fair as it should be.

Things are only getting worse and the problem a few people have realised is that no matter which political party you vote for, the net outcome is the same because the ACTUAL people in-charge are not the politicians we see on the TV but the unseen forces that control everything of value. Now, I'm not referring to any tin-hat theories of the likes of the Illuminati or anything outlandish like that, but you only have to scratch the surface to see that Western people are not as free as they are led to believe.

The problem in the likes of the U.S. and the U.K. is that a select few control everything. However, the lie spun to everyone by those at the top is that "You too can become one of us". This is done through the media on TV, the newspapers, or even something as apparently harmless as the television programmes we watch. Direct indoctrination is out of the window - its the subtle kind that washes over us that is doing the damage. Western people have been dazzled with the cult of celebrity and the lifestyles of the affluent - anything of real value is secondary. Spirituality is almost a dirty word and religion is considered as pure evil.

Sadly the people ("the proles" as George Orwell calls them) have sleepwalked into a hole from which there is no escape. As long as they've got their pints down the pub, their football and their annual holiday, everyone is happy and nobody will ever complain.

[genie]

<br />You see, that's where people (like us) in Western countries will never revolt. We're given a certain amount of (strictly regulated) leeway in order to lead our lives as we see fit, BUT within the remit of how "they" want us to live. Sure, we don't live in poverty and there are a few decent opportunities to make something of our lives, but everything is not as transparent and fair as it should be. <br /><br />Things are only getting worse and the problem a few people have realised is that no matter which political party you vote for, the net outcome is the same because the ACTUAL people in-charge are not the politicians we see on the TV but the unseen forces that control everything of value. Now, I'm not referring to any tin-hat theories of the likes of the Illuminati or anything outlandish like that, but you only have to scratch the surface to see that Western people are not as free as they are led to believe.<br /><br />The problem in the likes of the U.S. and the U.K. is that a select few control everything. However, the lie spun to everyone by those at the top is that "You too can become one of us". This is done through the media on TV, the newspapers, or even something as apparently harmless as the television programmes we watch. Direct indoctrination is out of the window - its the subtle kind that washes over us that is doing the damage. Western people have been dazzled with the cult of celebrity and the lifestyles of the affluent - anything of real value is secondary. Spirituality is almost a dirty word and religion is considered as pure evil.<br /><br />Sadly the people ("the proles" as George Orwell calls them) have sleepwalked into a hole from which there is no escape. As long as they've got their pints down the pub, their football and their annual holiday, everyone is happy and nobody will ever complain.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

You make valid points, and it is true that we are not as free as we really should be in the west yet we have much more freedom than those in "third world countries". It's human nature when we are living comfortably we do not want to change the status quo or rock the boat but when you feel an impact in your living standards then people start to get frustrated and vent their frustration in protests and demonstrations as has been going on lately in the UK against government cut backs and other parts of europe too.

In relation to our own situation back in history of punjab of 80s it was the economy and day to day hardships that forced many into the camp of separatism. When successive Indian governments were discriminating against the Sikhs not giving them jobs not treating crimes against them with an even hand then the masses turned towards the people who would give them justice (ie sant ji). Same thing will happen again if there is economic strife.

[VanHelsingh]

...In relation to our own situation back in history of punjab of 80s it was the economy and day to day hardships that forced many into the camp of separatism. When successive Indian governments were discriminating against the Sikhs not giving them jobs not treating crimes against them with an even hand then the masses turned towards the people who would give them justice (ie sant ji). Same thing will happen again if there is economic strife.

Exactly. Its natural for people to turn to someone who will help them against government oppression or - even in its mildest forms in western countries - governmental impropriety and imbalance.

But as you know our situation back home is multi-threaded and nuanced - social issues such as mass unemployment, poor education levels, drug and alcohol abuse, etc. Then there's the theological issues such as the systematic and insidious attack on Sikhi including the introduction of bogus "religious" figures to mislead a poorly-educated and gullible population. Its such a huge collective problem that the mind boggles at how anyone can turn the situation into a positive.

As for our Islamic friends, I'm left wondering which Arab / Muslim state will be next to fall in this revolution. Also, will the alternative be a genuine break from the current regime (and avoiding the Islamist extremists) or will it be another U.S. influenced and directed administration, introduced as merely an extension of the U.S. and its policies?