Star Size Comparison

[OhTwadi]

Or the Milkyway is going to gobble up Andromedia! Plus I think it's in billions of years not millions.

I'm not sure if its millions or billions, chances of human civilization lasting for that long are quite slim anyway.

Andromeda is a lot of bigger, so it will gobble and assimilate milky way.

[SarabjeetS]

This one blows the mind.

A look at a tiny fragment of space. Each of the coloured lights/blobs in the image is a galaxy like our own (which is called the milkyway). There are billions of them.....

** Edited: Please kindly do not quote long posts. Dhanwaad **

Sometimes it makes me wonder , that Guru Nanak sahib must have seen all this and perhaps thats why he said

"Gagan main thaal , rav chand deepak baney , Tarika mandal janak moti " ( Sky is plate , In it are lamps of moon and sun , Galaxies are like pearls ) .

They indeed look like pearls and jewels , don't they ?

Dhan Guru Nanak !

[Balait_da_Sher]

According to the sakhi when Guru Nanak Dev ji was in Iraq and the peer found out from people that there was this man saying there are millions of planets (Lakh patala patal...), Peer went to see Guru ji. Here Guruji took Peer's son to a different planet and even had parshad from there. Guru ji did this by placing his hand on the son's head.

If you think about one god, then that same god is taking care of everything else. So are our Guru the only Gurus? Is Sikhi the only path? Thats why I think its important to remember that these labels (Sikh, Hindu, Muslims) are here just for our understanding. The important thing here is the message. For Sikhs, Gurbani is the highest and leads to Waheguru. This may be true to aliens which will have their own beliefs and those may have been revealed to them according to their own traditions/culture by god.

[dalsingh101]

According to the sakhi when Guru Nanak Dev ji was in Iraq and the peer found out from people that there was this man saying there are millions of planets (Lakh patala patal...), Peer went to see Guru ji. Here Guruji took Peer's son to a different planet and even had parshad from there. Guru ji did this by placing his hand on the son's head.

If you think about one god, then that same god is taking care of everything else. So are our Guru the only Gurus? Is Sikhi the only path? Thats why I think its important to remember that these labels (Sikh, Hindu, Muslims) are here just for our understanding. The important thing here is the message. For Sikhs, Gurbani is the highest and leads to Waheguru. This may be true to aliens which will have their own beliefs and those may have been revealed to them according to their own traditions/culture by god.

Good point. Sometimes I do feel like certain brothers get so 'technical' with their Sikhi that they sort of become blind to other wider messages embedded within it. Can't see the woods for the trees as they say in England. Instead it becomes a stick to beat other people with. lol

Going back to Gurbani or more specifically the language employed to relay it. Do we have concrete words for the following?

1) Solar system

2) Universe/cosmos

We have lots of words used in gurbani in this field like ਗ੍ਰਹਿ meaning planets. But what exactly is a ਖੰਡ, ਮੰਡਲ and a ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ?

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ is defined as the cosmos/universe is one dictionary but then you have this:

"ਕੋਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ਕੋ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਸੁਆਮੀ". (ਸੋਰ ਮਃ ੫) which suggests galaxy but then again, I guess we can't discount the possibility of occurrences of multiple universes!

What about ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ? I would this is good contender for the universe/cosmos?

What exactly is a ਲੋਅ?

I was wondering if we could nail them down? When I look at various instances of some of these words in online translations their meaning seems to alter so brahmund is galaxy in one reference and the universe in another?

[OhTwadi]

Here's how I understand these words

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ = universe

ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ = earth/universe

As per Mahan Kosh,

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਂਡ. ਬ੍ਰਹਮ- ਅੰਡ. ਬ੍ਰਹ੍‌ਮ ਦਾ ਆਂਡਾ. ਗੋਲਾਕਾਰ ਜਗਤ. ਖਗੋਲ ਅਤੇ ਭੂਗੋਲ। ੨. ਮਨੁ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਅਤੇ ਪੁਰਾਣਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਥਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜਗਤ- ਰਚਨਾ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਇੱਕ ਸੋਨੇਰੰਗਾ ਆਂਡਾ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋਇਆ, ਜੋ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਵਰ੍ਹੇ ਪਿੱਛੋਂ ਫੁੱਟਕੇ ਦੋ ਖੰਡ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ, ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਸੱਤ ਉੱਪਰਲੇ ਅਤੇ ਸੱਤ ਹੇਠਲੇ ਲੋਕ ਬਣੇ. ਇਸ ਵਿਸਯ ਦੇਖੋ, ਛਾਂਦੋਗ੍ਯ ਉਪਨਿਸਦ ਖੰਡ ੧੯.

ਸੰ. सृषिृ ਸ੍ਰਿਸ੍ਟਿ. ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ- ਰਚਨਾ। ੨. ਸੰਸਾਰ. ਦੁਨੀਆ. "ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਭ ਇਕ ਬਰਨ ਹੋਈ." (ਧਨਾ ਮਃ ੧) "ਜਿਸ ਕੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸੁ ਕਰਣੈਹਾਰੁ." (ਸੁਖਮਨੀ)

ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ- ਲੋਕ. ਤ਼ਬਕ਼. "ਸੂਝਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਲੋਅ." (ਧਨਾ ਮਃ ੧) "ਸੁਣਿਐ ਦੀਪ ਲੋਅ ਪਾਤਾਲ." (ਜਪੁ) ੨. ਲੋਗ. ਜਨ. "ਨਾਮੇ ਉਧਰੇ ਸਭਿ ਜਿਤਨੇ ਲੋਅ." (ਭੈਰ ਮਃ ੩) ੩. ਚਾਨਣਾ. ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼. ਨੂਰ. "ਚਹੁ ਚਕੀ ਕੀਅਨੁ ਲੋਆ." (ਵਾਰ ਰਾਮ ੩)

[dalsingh101]

I think the closest we get to an unambiguous definition of the universe is probably ਰਚਨਾ.

This

ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ = earth/universe

is problematic because as you know, the universe and earth are describing two very different things in English.

[OhTwadi]

I don't think we can find a single word (or a set of words) in this situation to accurately describe the Gurbani words. To be honest, I'm not surprised as this does happen quite often.

I don't think ਰਚਨਾ can be used to describe the Universe. The word ਰਚਨਾ pretty much means creation. 'Creation' is such a broad concept that it can be applied to almost anything. For example, I just created this post, eh post meri ਰਚਨਾ hai :biggrin2:

Also, if my memory serves me correctly, Gurbani uses the word ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ to describe earth in certain places and universe in others.

[dalsingh101]

I don't think we can find a single word (or a set of words) in this situation to accurately describe the Gurbani words. To be honest, I'm not surprised as this does happen quite often.

Fair point. I guess it's futile to try and map western conceptual terminology on Indic derived ones?

I don't think ਰਚਨਾ can be used to describe the Universe. The word ਰਚਨਾ pretty much means creation. 'Creation' is such a broad concept that it can be applied to almost anything. For example, I just created this post, eh post meri ਰਚਨਾ hai :biggrin2:

I think in terms of a word to unambiguously label all of God's material creation i.e the universe, it is the best?

Also, if my memory serves me correctly, Gurbani uses the word ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੀ to describe earth in certain places and universe in others.

It wouldn't surprise me if this is so. Still, if Indian astronomers had names for some of the other planets, I'm surprised one wasn't fixed for ours?

[Only five]

According to the sakhi when Guru Nanak Dev ji was in Iraq and the peer found out from people that there was this man saying there are millions of planets (Lakh patala patal...), Peer went to see Guru ji. Here Guruji took Peer's son to a different planet and even had parshad from there. Guru ji did this by placing his hand on the son's head.

If you think about one god, then that same god is taking care of everything else. So are our Guru the only Gurus? Is Sikhi the only path? Thats why I think its important to remember that these labels (Sikh, Hindu, Muslims) are here just for our understanding. The important thing here is the message. For Sikhs, Gurbani is the highest and leads to Waheguru. This may be true to aliens which will have their own beliefs and those may have been revealed to them according to their own traditions/culture by god.

I think there is too much of a focus on Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj body and not on what he truly was and is. When speaking about the Gurus, some get stuck on what is in Akal Purakh. Thinking that the Gurus were apart of this creation and not the Creator. If Akal Purakh comes down tomorrow as the form of a child, do people get up and start worshipping a child? Take the same and apply it to other universes. Is Akal Purakh going to change for other universes? Akal Purakh is perfect in his form and reveals his true form to his disciples at his command. Satguru(Guru) is no different than Akal Purakh and requires no altering just because he is on some other universes. In Sri Mool Mantar da paat after the words, By Guru's Grace, comes: True in the primal beginning True throughout the ages,True here and now, O Nanak forever and ever True.

When Satguru says this, there is no limit placed on Gurbani (one calls it Gurbani, other calls it Guru, and another calls it Shabad Guru, but they all are the same). There is no limit obviously by time, but also there is no limit placed on it by a place in Akal Puralh. Satguru say, Waho Waho Bani Nirankar hai.

There is no place that is above the Guru or has a different Guru that teaches different than Gurbani.

So other universes species will not follow their own beliefs that God reveals to them because they would have the same to follow as Gurbani is Nirankar.

[dalsingh101]

[/i]There is no place that is above the Guru or has a different Guru that teaches different than Gurbani.

So you think another species on another galaxy would receive Gurbani that essentially translates what we have been given into their own language/mode of communication? Using their own cultural reference points for elaboration like we have older Indic references in bani? Interesting.

Could it not be possible that an older and infinitely more advanced species has received a more intricate elaboration of bani that reflects their (hypothetically) advanced and potentially very different cognitive nature?

Would the raags they received be the same or different? If they already have an advanced grasp of dimensions such as time and space (much more advanced than us), would references to this in their Gurbani be more elaborate than that received by humans?

In essence does God distribute the message according to a species capabilities and ability for understanding?