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[Only five]

This Shabad is by Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Gujri on Pannaa 515

sloku mÚ 3 ]

salok ma 3 ||

Salok, Third Mehla:

vwhu vwhu bwxI inrMkwr hY iqsu jyvfu Avru n koie ]

vaahu vaahu baanee nira(n)kaar hai this jaevadd avar n koe ||

Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani, the Word, of the Formless Lord. There is no other as great as He is.

vwhu vwhu Agm AQwhu hY vwhu vwhu scw soie ]

vaahu vaahu agam athhaahu hai vaahu vaahu sachaa soe ||

Waaho! Waaho! The Lord is unfathomable and inaccessible. Waaho! Waaho! He is the True One.

vwhu vwhu vyprvwhu hY vwhu vwhu kry su hoie ]

vaahu vaahu vaeparavaahu hai vaahu vaahu karae s hoe ||

Waaho! Waaho! He is the self-existent Lord. Waaho! Waaho! As He wills, so it comes to pass.

vwhu vwhu AMimRq nwmu hY gurmuiK pwvY koie ]

vaahu vaahu a(n)mrith naam hai guramukh paavai koe ||

Waaho! Waaho! is the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, obtained by the Gurmukh.

vwhu vwhu krmI pweIAY Awip dieAw kir dyie ]

vaahu vaahu karamee paaeeai aap dhaeiaa kar dhaee ||

Waaho! Waaho! This is realized by His Grace, as He Himself grants His Grace.

nwnk vwhu vwhu gurmuiK pweIAY Anidnu nwmu leyie ]1]

naanak vaahu vaahu guramukh paaeeai anadhin naam leaee ||1||

O Nanak, Waaho! Waaho! This is obtained by the Gurmukhs, who hold tight to the Naam, night and day. ||1||

[Only five]

So you think another species on another galaxy would receive Gurbani that essentially translates what we have been given into their own language/mode of communication? Using their own cultural reference points for elaboration like we have older Indic references in bani? Interesting.

Could it not be possible that an older and infinitely more advanced species has received a more intricate elaboration of bani that reflects their (hypothetically) advanced and potentially very different cognitive nature?

Would the raags they received be the same or different? If they already have an advanced grasp of dimensions such as time and space (much more advanced than us), would references to this in their Gurbani be more elaborate than that received by humans?

In essence does God distribute the message according to a species capabilities and ability for understanding?

First tell me your understanding of what Gurbani is and then I'll go into your questions; Bani Nirankar hai.

Edited Let me add so there is no confusion on saying I don't want to answer your questions because they are of high intellect and you just made some things clear to me. Actually they are of a very low intellect understanding of Gurbani, but in any case tell me what Gurbani is and I'll answer your questions. Let's see if the light bulb goes off.

[OhTwadi]

Fair point. I guess it's futile to try and map western conceptual terminology on Indic derived ones?

I usually leave it at that

I think in terms of a word to unambiguously label all of God's material creation i.e the universe, it is the best?

Yeah, that's the best we can do for now. Until Scientist come up with a term to describe this Universe and others collectively.

It wouldn't surprise me if this is so. Still, if Indian astronomers had names for some of the other planets, I'm surprised one wasn't fixed for ours?

There isn't one for Earth? I always thought earth was called 'dharti maa'...

[dalsingh101]

First tell me your understanding of what Gurbani is and then I'll go into your questions; Bani Nirankar hai.

Edited Let me add so there is no confusion on saying I don't want to answer your questions because they are of high intellect and you just made some things clear to me. Actually they are of a very low intellect understanding of Gurbani, but in any case tell me what Gurbani is and I'll answer your questions. Let's see if the light bulb goes off.

Having had a brief taste of your obnoxious air in the above reply, I think I'll spare myself any more exposure to such a noxious personality and I hope you will kindly consider my question retracted - from yourself at least.

Thank you.

There isn't one for Earth? I always thought earth was called 'dharti maa'...

Yes you are right. It is tharthi.

[VanHelsingh]

In essence does God distribute the message according to a species capabilities and ability for understanding?

That would be a logical assumption.

Imagine Sikhi being practiced on another planet by another race of beings, but they have a wholly different framework from which to derive it's message? Imagine a Norse-type race of warrior beings following Sikhi with honour, respect and unwavering devotion. But instead of being subjugated and demoralised (as we are at this moment in history), they were the rulers of their respective world.

Extract the failings of Panjabi culture and I tell you, our world would take a lot more notice of Sikhi.

[dalsingh101]

That would be a logical assumption.

Imagine Sikhi being practiced on another planet by another race of beings, but they have a wholly different framework from which to derive it's message? Imagine a Norse-type race of warrior beings following Sikhi with honour, respect and unwavering devotion. But instead of being subjugated and demoralised (as we are at this moment in history), they were the rulers of their respective world.

Hypothetically, with a nonhuman species, would bani still be in the form that rhymed, and to music? What would nitnem be like? Its unlikely that days would be 24 hours long too. Would the prayer pattern still be based along solar/lunar rhythms?

Extract the failings of Panjabi culture and I tell you, our world would take a lot more notice of Sikhi.

I know exactly what you mean, but I have to ask, to what extent did our ancestors separate the faith from their cultural practices? How long did any complete swap of Panjabi culture with Sikh culture last? I would imagine that only a few very high, select blessed Brahmgianis achieved this?

[VanHelsingh]

Hypothetically, with a nonhuman species, would bani still be in the form that rhymed, and to music? What would nitnem be like? Its unlikely that days would be 24 hours long too. Would the prayer pattern still be based along solar/lunar rhythms?

Probably not. I guess the essence of the overall message would remain the same, minus the reference points concerned with what we know as earth and humanity. But then would it still be Gurbani?

I know exactly what you mean, but I have to ask, to what extent did our ancestors separate the faith from their cultural practices? How long did any complete swap of Panjabi culture with Sikh culture last? I would imagine that only a few very high, select blessed Brahmgianis achieved this?

True. I guess I was referring more to modern day practices whereby whenever a Sikh tries to extoll the virtues of his faith (e.g. equality of sexes, non-adherence to caste, prohibition of alcohol, etc.,) non-Sikh elements have a ready answer of "Well the majority of 'Sikhs' DO indulge in these activities". Whilst a determined individual will continue to explain that true Sikhs don't partake in any of these kureits, the average person begins rolling their eyes at this point and thinks "Yeah, whatever".

[dalsingh101]

True. I guess I was referring more to modern day practices whereby whenever a Sikh tries to extoll the virtues of his faith (e.g. equality of sexes, non-adherence to caste, prohibition of alcohol, etc.,) non-Sikh elements have a ready answer of "Well the majority of 'Sikhs' DO indulge in these activities". Whilst a determined individual will continue to explain that true Sikhs don't partake in any of these kureits, the average person begins rolling their eyes at this point and thinks "Yeah, whatever".

It's often the 'idea' of Sikhi that captivates us, the manifestation (as in the reality of how Sikhs behave) often causes much disappointment and is very often the polar opposite to the ideas espoused.

I think the bible says (about people) 'know them by their fruit' or in other words 'judge them by their actual actions not any theoretical positions'. When I was at uni so many sullay used to tell me about Islam and how great it was, when I'd point out the brutal actions of some not so great Muslims they would retort "Oh, but they weren't proper Muslims", which I thought was a cheap cop out to addressing the actual behaviour of their people. So I'm not surprised if nonSikhs do the same thing in the face of the discrepancy between the idea and practice in our quom. Sometimes this discrepancy is so gapingly obvious to outsiders that it will cause raised eyebrows when people try and play it down.

Back to the fascinating point we were touching on before.

So if we were to attempt to distill the salient points of Gurmat on an intergalatic basis to a hypothetical non-human race, what would be the salient features? Although it seems like a childish, 'fantasy' the exercise could actually help as a tool to uncovering the deeper core of Sikhi.

I'll start!

I'd say that resignation to the creator's will would still apply to the intelligent nonhuman species. A practice of concentrating ones focus onto an immanent and transcendental creator too (simran). A dissolution of any indigenous hierarchical setups would be a part of it replaced by compassion. Military preparedness would also be a factor.

Would we still have fixed prayers?

Maybe we would have prayers that bring to focus the benefits and nature of creator lauding it's creator? Plus they will probably be fixed at certain periods of the martian day?

[VanHelsingh]

I reckon a system of rehat (depending on the race in question) would also be important.

I'm also wondering whether the events that have unfolded in Sikh history (on earth) would have much relevance to our otherwordly buddies? Or did they have their own set of events (that occured on their own planet) which inspired them to follow the faith?

[sunny_love_kirtan]

Sometimes it makes me wonder , that Guru Nanak sahib must have seen all this and perhaps thats why he said

"Gagan main thaal , rav chand deepak baney , Tarika mandal janak moti " ( Sky is plate , In it are lamps of moon and sun , Galaxies are like pearls ) .

They indeed look like pearls and jewels , don't they ?

Dhan Guru Nanak !

duh