Asian Network Nihal - Benti To Satkaar Camapign

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

The debate begins and ends with one question: Was the sangat's contribution to the golak used to buy the building or fund its construction? If so, then the advocates of serving meat and alcohol in the center haven't got a leg to stand on.

EDIT: The Sikh girl talking at the moment is speaking very well and is being given the opportunity to present the facts.

EDIT: The female spokesperson for the centre is having a laugh. She's actually trying to challenge the Akal Takhat by saying she's living in this country & abides by UK law! :laugh2:

[ekam 0]

The Dudley Committee supporting Bibi ji has clearly rejected the Hukam of the Akal Takht, Live on air - and her justification is...."... not breaking any UK law.........I'm a modern person".............

[_!_GUPT_!_ 9]

Imandeep Kaur was fantastic! Definitely deserves a lot of credit!!

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

Satkaar were conspicuous by their absence. They can't run these national campaigns and then retreat into the shadows when things get a bit hot. I'm not having a go at them. I'm a strong supporter of their efforts but they needed to contribute to the discussion.

EDIT: There's this mistaken belief that Satkaar campaign orchestrated the violence. That's not right.

EDIT: If our male Sikh youngsters can't string a sentence together, don't phone in for God's sake. The lad on now just needs to step away from the phone. He's damaging the good work of the previous two Sikh girls who articulated themselves excellently.

EDIT: Please brother, whoever you are, bas kar. You're being torn apart by the presenter and you're making the protesters look like idiots.

EDIT: Uncle Ji is currently giving us a history lesson on contributions to Gurughars. Nihal keeps asking the question about why people are going against the Akal Takhat, but nobody can answer him.

EDIT: Now Uncle Ji is saying the 2006 sandesh isn't actually from Akal Takhat! You can't make it up!!!

EDIT: Lad on the phone now is criticising Hazoor Sahib regarding jhatka.

EDIT: JASMINDER IS IN THE BUILDING!!!! (metaphorically speaking. He hasn't turned up in Dudley at the cultural centre, lol).

He's now saying Satkaar are right-wing extremists. Saying Guru Gobind Singh Ji use to eat meat.

EDIT: Uncle Ji is saying Akal Takhat should go further and anyone associated with selling alcohol should not be involved in the running of Gurughars, i.e. such people should not be allowed on committees. He says he resigned from his position (not sure where) when Akal Takhat wouldn't go that far.

He also earlier condoned the violence - on both sides - which is fair enough. His final point was that those people arguing for the separation of Sikh as culture and Sikh as a religion are travelling a dangerous path. At the moment they are saying meat and alcohol should be allowed in associated buildings - in the future they could introduce further abberations.

EDIT: Another emailer slandering Satkaar as extremists and bullies. Nihal to his credit is sticking up for Satkaar - kind of.

Lots of clever emailers labelling protesting Sikhs as right-wing and extremists. "Imposing 15th century rules in the present". Probably those who were in the Dudley cultural centre on Saturday.

EDIT: Last email by Ekam??!? Our Ekam? Good lad!

EDIT: Good caller (Charan Singh). Brief call but very good.

EDIT: Another Uncle Ji condemning the violence and questioning Satkaar's activities. Give it up Uncle Ji. Go and have a late-lunchtime pint.

The end of the show. A few emails to finish off - a mixed bag. Satkaar being called a cult. Others defending Akal Takhat sandesh of 2006.

[Jaggaa 98]

This guy slandering Guru Gobind Singh Jee.. What a joke of a person.

[ekam 0]

I must concede that Nihal is actually handling this debate with a good degree of balance and impartiality. I criticise him when he doesn't, so I guess I should commend him when he does.

Yes, I couldn't get through on the phone so emailed my views and thankfully they were read out.

It's unbelieveable how many ignorant people support the actions of beadbi!

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

I must concede that Nihal is actually handling this debate with a good degree of balance and impartiality. I criticise him when he doesn't, so I guess I should commend him when he does.

Yes, I couldn't get through on the phone so emailed my views and thankfully they were read out.

It's unbelieveable how many ignorant people support the actions of beadbi!

The worrying thing is I reckon these people have always been amongst us. But for some reason, they are finding a voice now. They're are being very clever by using language and imagery usually associated with Islamic extremists and transposing it onto baptised Sikhs in order to prejudice people against the cause of groups like Satkaar or the rules of Sikhi in general.

I can only imagine the devastating divisions that will occur in the panth if this show is an indication of what some Sikhs truly think. I am honestly very shocked at some of the ignorance shown by some non-amritdhari Sikhs who phoned or emailed the show. I never knew things were this bad.

[darknight 22]

Gosh great debate and i Think the Akal Thakt sandeesh was the winner!!

However the callers forgot to mention that the Centre was actually a Gurdwara for 2 years and that 99.9% of the users are the same users and which community centre has had the Bhai Sahib of Soho Road and Panj Piara lay the founding stone??/

Hmmm smells a bit religious to me...I'm sure Channi from alaap was a Icon at the time and he would have been happy to lay the first stone :-)

[Guroo Guroo Jaap 57]

Missed it cos im at work. Can someone please record it?

[theonlyway 3]

WGJKK WGJKF

Guru Pyari Sangat Ji

I listened to the program, 15 years ago when me and my family were distant from sikhi, we considered using the dudley centre for my sisters wedding, thankfully god saved me and my family from doing such unbelievable beadbi of our Poora Staguru.

Todays show was a reflection of where i was then, lost, uneducated, no respect for my faith.

Today i sit here, i dont drink alcohol, or consume meat, or take drugs, i have uncut long hair and a long flowing beard. Why???? because Guru Ji saved me, Guru Ji didnt look at my past actions but showed me the way forward.

The violence should not have happened, and i pray Guru Ji also shows mercy on the people who were involved, and helps them change there ways.

We have faced much bigger problems and faced unbelievable challenges against our faith before, as kaljug grows, these challenges will increase.

So my solution, right here right now. Take a step forward, increase your kamai, increase yoour sadhna, increase your dhian, increase your devotion. God will be with you as you move forward. Dont just dress like the Guru's. Live like the Guru's. Dont Pick and choose, but accept all of the hukam.

In my ideal world there would only be one gurudwara in this country, where people travelled miles on foot to go and do darshan. Where at the point of darshan, tears would flow, because your thirst has been quenched.

Unfortunately Gurudwara sahibs are popping up quickers than tescos. Have we really got so many great sikhs, who can house and provide the correct maryada and devotion for Guru Granth Sahib Ji?. Clearly not as cases of be-adab crop up all too frequently.

Please Naam Jap De raho, dont stop, definitely dont go backwards, move forward.

God is with us.

WGJKK WGJKF

Im not militant, i love god.

[AnakinSkywalker 31]

If people accepted ALL the hukumnamas from the Akal Takhat then we wouldn't have this problem.

Now we have a myriad of maryadas, some restrictive, some odd...each supporter of which is championing his own flavour of Sikhism...so many divisions and so many agendas...

Why can't we all just accept the Akal Takhat Maryada and ALL of it's hukumnamas?

[_!_GUPT_!_ 9]

Missed it cos im at work. Can someone please record it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011md9b/Nihal_Should_a_Sikh_cultural_centre_serve_meat_and_alcohol/

[_singhni_ 142]

Just listening to the show on iplayer now and so far the stupid lady representing the community centre has no idea what she's talking about and needs to be taught a few lessons on basic sikhi as she kept claiming Guru Granth Sahib je our Guru as a holy book when Mahraji is the King of Kings and not some book. Vaheguru save us

[PAL 07 210]

http://www.4shared.com/folder/c32VUJr7/_online.html is a link to this radio discusssion in mp3 format so plz download if neccessarey

i was particularly impressed with nihaal and shall email him to thank him...

i don't want to sound like i'm not a "hardliner" but:-

138 minutes into the nihal discussion a Mr Balraj states that elderly relatives

of his were beaten up and hospitalised if this is true was this neccessary - also why smash the hall up what was the purpose of this..i think they wanted to stop the party by ambushing the hall which is fine and then once inside having kicked all the party goers out the Singh's then said they will not leave until a correct decision is made.

it seems to me that young Singh's lost their temper....there is a classic old saying

"young blood needs an old mind"

[11Gurus1Jot 176]

Wouldn't it have been lovely to see this truth in the British Press!!!

Yes I think the British Tax Payer should be very concerned with the local Dudley non practising Sikhs who can be easily recognised, as basically they will not resemble a Sikh in any way, shape, or form. Most of the non-practising Sikhs of Dudley normally have shaved heads and more likely to be mistaken for Hari Krishna worshippers, but do not have the honesty and integrity of Hari Krishna worshippers. The shaved head non-practising Sikhs generally lack belief in any religion. There are a few Dudley Temple committee members that have deliberately adopted the appearance of Sikhs to cause unfair competition regarding party halls in the Dudley area. The Dudley Sikh imitating Committee do this because it pains them to think that their Shaved head congregation, who do not practise Sikhism, may pay money to people of other races, including ordinary British Tax paying Citizens, in order to hire halls for parties. The Dudley Temple committee members, who try imitate the appearance of real Sikhs, use the religion of the Sikhs to market and advertise their Dudley party hall for the consumption of alcohol. This marketing method, and drinking alcohol, is very clearly against even the most basic of Sikh Tenets. The committee seem to take great pleasure in knowing that they are hurting the sentiments of the Sikhs, and at them same time, drawing business away from local law abiding British Tax payers, who have set up their party halls in the correct and proper manner, and who use fair marketing and advertising techniques to drawn in their customers. As mentioned before, the Sikh imitating Dudley Temple committee members have argued that, why should our congregation (mostly non-practising shaved head Sikhs) pay money over to law abiding British Tax Paying Citizens who own party halls, when they could instead, keep the money within their own "non-Sikhi practising" community. This British Tax payer, and especially the Dudley Press/Newspapers, should note that it is the shaved head congregation, and Sikh imitating Dudley Temple committee, who are working against the Dudley Tax Payer and business owners. The proper British Sikhs, who support long beards and turbans, are supporting all the genuine British Tax payers of Dudley by trying to prevent the unfair marketing being used against the British Tax payer by this shaved head congregation of people who do not practice Sikhism. The practising genuine Sikhs who protested against the activities taking place at the hall were defending the rights of the British Tax Payer.

The rest of the Dudley and National Community, the Dudley and National Press, and the Dudley and National Police Force should realise that the Sikhs, who supported long beards and turbans, who protested against the activities of the hall on Saturday, where fighting for the rights of the British tax payer!

We should leave the sale and promotion of alcohol to the Pubs, Nightclubs, off licences, and restaurants, as allowed by the law of this land. Gurdwares should not be taking business away for Pubs, Nightclubs, off licences, and restaurants that offer anyone a place to drink without offending anyone!

The Great British Press and Media, and the Police, should be supporting their tax paying Pub, Nightclub and restaurant owners, rather than protecting and assisting mislead Gurdwara Committee members in taking customers away from the Legitimate British Tax Paying Men and Women who sell alcohol in legal, legitimate and suitable venues!!!

One of the best quotes I have heard recently is, "saying you are a Sikh, when you do not practise even the basic Sikh Doctrines and Tenets, is like saying you are a footballer, when you do not even play football" - brilliant quote!