Concept Of Sunn-Void,Nullity.

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

yes, i agree. most people say that jupping naam makes all other tastes, tasteless. >peevtang sant na tripyate<. ..

but how are we to understand dukh and sukh as one? teek a , we become indifferent to it. seetal.

but, >sum kar , jaapai< has a deeper meaning. hat is the veechaar (not simple meaning) of this?

i wud say it means 'samaj what dukh and sukh are, then you are able to jup naam' (teek a also that ,can jup naam anytime etc)

what is your veechaar on sum kar , jaapai ?

thanks jio

Sorry Ji, my punjabi is not upto scratch, would you be able to ask the question in full English?

[alias]

just that what is ur veechaar on >sum kar , jaapai< in this gurbani tuk ?

[alias]

hehe! this is what im asking you. its in the gurbani tuk

>>>

naanak , dukh, sukh, sam kar jaapai ;satgur tay kaal na garaasai. ||61||

O Nanak, when one looks upon pain and pleasure alike, through the True Guru,

then he is not consumed by Death.

<<<

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

Hello Ji

I feel in my (and God's) experience that the tuk means both bringing dukh and sukh together as one, and also understanding dukh and sukh to be as one. The thing is that Language is limited, that is why we are asked to attune ourselves to naam/truth so as to physically apply gurbani and realise it ourselves, if the gyan of gurbani read a few times over was enough, we would all be brahmgyani by now.

Beginning our divine beautiful slavery to god, in attuning ourselves to naam, doing good deeds and spreading Truth to others, we begin to rapidly pay off our karams. God knows we will not be able to live in truth 24/7 throughout every situation until we reach the Atal Awasth state- the state our Gurus and brahmgyanis were at.

We can see their state through their acceptance of extreme torture and martyrdom. When we fall off the track of truth after embarking seriously on our path, we get hit with karam to get us back to the balance which we arrive back at by practicing truth once again. Bringing dukh and sukh together is going from the point of dukh(slap of karam) to practicing truth to such an extent that we arrive back at the balance. All is His hukam.

Think of it as a scale. The slap of karam(dukh/pain/hell state of mind/darkness) throws a huge stone on one side of the scale. To get the scales equal again we must practice Truth to such an extent that something like a diamond begins to form on the other side of the scale. When the diamond is big enough, the scales balance, hence we reach a state of balance i.e Truth, we have brought dukh and sukh together to an equal weight to achieve this state. We understand them to be the same for they are both simply gifts put there by god to allow us/Him to achieve the balance, it doesnt matter how they look.

Now my friend, when we See dukh or Sukh we don't truly feel it in a spiritual sense as our spiritual state remains in the balance- and one day with God's grace we reach the unbreakable state(atal awasth) where nothing can change our spiritual/ psychological state. We feel the pain of the martyrdom physically but our psychological state remains the same- we feel the balance being served, but we are exempt from feeling the nasha of the pain mentally for our mind has died and merged with that of the creator, and he lives in a state of balance/truth/true detachment 24/7.

This is a weak example of course because like I said, words themselves are weak- they can never truly portray an experience, only their application can allow us to truly feel the truth.

[Singh, Mahan]

Sunn is not a concept. It is a state that Nirgun Nirankaar- the Infinite conscious nothingness creative infinity adopts and becomes Naam before a “FORM” becomes and enters the a state of maya,- that is it enters time space capsule. ( Refer to Raag Maru especially the Mahalla Pehla – the Raag Maru composed by Guru Nanak Dev Ji ). From a scientific point of view this it the Ultimate discovery of Guru Nanak Dev and the modern physicists should pay special attention in that direction. (in my view) So one can imagine that Sunn is the dividing line between the consciousness without form and the consciousness that has become situate in /attached to a form. In Sunn state there is no concept of energy only the consciousness. ( Refer again to Raag Maru) Energy is the concept of Maya –the time- space dimensions. From thousand eyes, and thousand hand ( meaning infinite dimensions), as the dimensions start to consolidate and finally are reduced to Maya ( dimension of time and space) the form starts to take shape. (that is what the modern quantum mechanics is trying to say that before the matter takes its existence in time space dimensions its sub-particles shed their several/ multiple of their dimensions.

In the Sunn state it is the ability of consciousness to create by becoming Naam. And on the other side it is time space dimension - all energy out of which a form take shape.

As long as we have a form (ie. our bodies are) in “time and space dimensions”, we can not enter that state. It is only our consciousness, when it is in tune with Naam, (refer to the last four Pauries of Japji Sahib), that can have a glimpse of Sunn state. It is in the Sunn state where Naam sits. Beyond that is the infinite creative consciousness of Sach Khand .

Phhul chuk maaf.

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

There is no science, no logic, there are even no frequencies, wordly language can only describe things in a certain way. We live in the imagination of the creator, the sunn is the nothingness in which god resides, it is the void, the innermost part of Sachkandh where all was created, for even outer sachkandh has an image- God is beyond an image. In actual fact, the sunn is prevalent everywhere, dukh and sukh together equal the sunn- the nothingness/balance/truth- it is only when we percieve them to be seperate that we are stuck in illusion.