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Sikhi: Violence And Warfare


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The dudley situation was an interesting one, I believe those in the satkaar campaign were in the wrong there. When they stormed the party hall and wreaked the place they did not use their brains and in the process made the Sikh community look like a bunch of violent thugs in front of the police and the media.

Any provocation should have been dealt with calmly and restraint should have been shown to any insults by the opposition..... however if you are physically attacked.... then your hands are free to defend yourselves and let rip. But always have backup video journalists who are there on your side to record what went on because the only video and images we saw in the national press were of Singhs rushing in and wreaking the party hall. This type of brute force action does more harm to the community than good. PR is very important in the modern world to sway public opinion, it is a form of weapon that should be mastered and used against opponents of Sikhs. At the moment we are very much lacking in this department compared to other religious communities (ie hindu's, jew's and muslim's)

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If a Sikh hides Sikh history, then consider them a giddar and a person who doesn't understand Sikhi. Sikhs don't hide their history neither do they force others to read it. It's there for everyone to see, study and if they want to take their point of view and judge Sikh history, then so be it. Ignorance is bliss.

Those that want to know the world's opinions before acting, then they are no better than those who they ask. Khalsa only bows to Satguru and only looks to Satguru before acting. We take Hukams from Satguru not from the world.

This topic is a waste of time because the Sikhs that don't practice Sikhi or havn't taken Amrit will always disagree with Gurmat. They will stick to their opinion and use words like extremist toward Singhs like Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa and if they were born in Satguru's time they will be calling Satguru in many slanderous names. Those that want to know the truth about taking the sword, first need to understand what it means to give and take life. Bhagti is the base of then going into the world and using the sword to protect.

Pedrorizzo....not here to knock you down, but i know you don't or havent ever done bhagti in your life (how do i know....there is much fear in your post of worldly people). You care more about public opinion than accepting the Truth. Sit down one day and let go of all your preconcieved opinions of SIkhi and actually listen to Shabad Guru. You are concerned way too much about what worldly people will think of you if you do or say something and are looking to impress worldly superior people in your life. Instead of saying what others expect you to say, do some paat with love and devotion. The fear you have of what others will think of you will go away.

Only five not to knock you down but you dont live in the real world. Thankyou for your saintly advice and preaching but it is really not necessary. My opinions are not governed by fear, they are governed by what I perceive to be sound strategy and what I think works in the real world. If doing bhagti makes me as deluded as you are then I cant really see the benefit. However, I know that bhagti does not make anyone deluded, hence why I doubt how much bhagti you have done yourself. Concentrate on your own jeevan and leave other people to have their own views.

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That IS the aim isn't it, to win? Surely there's no other reason to enter conflict? Who wants to be a glorious loser and heap more misery on your own people and yourselves? I certainly don't think we should be happy with the tag of plucky tryers.

The aim is to stay in Gurmat and if Maharaj's Hukam is for the Khalsa to win then so be it, if it is to lose then the Khalsa still stays in Gurmat and it's always in Chardikala. A Khalsa never forgets he is a Saint. The second Chamkaur Sahib battle when all the Singhs gave Shaheedi, the Khalsa didn't win the battle, but they stayed in Gurmat and won the biggest prize of all; Sachkhand. If Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj taught and was himself about winning worldly battles then with one Jaikara he would have ruled the whole world in a split second and all of the politicians (ruling powers) of today would be bowing their heads at Satguru's feet. Satguru is above such lowly ways and so is his Khalsa. Satguru has given us orders first to do Bhagti and understand what winning and losing is. Those Sikhs that want to conquer the world are diluded. Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj said the Khalsa will rule, but understand what this means. Many Sikhs are stuck in pleasing politicians to make this happen (get world opinion, focus on economy (make others better off so they favor the Sikhs)) and many are stuck in using the iron fist to make it happen. Satguru has disregarded both ways and took up the only way. With Pyare and defense in Gurmat to bring everyone to their knees to the teachings of Satguru. A mad lion can be brought to his knees without lifting a finger by the Saint. Do you or any other poster know how to take down a mad lion without lifting a finger? I don't....So if i lift a sword to fight another, who is mad and who is righteous?

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The aim is to stay in Gurmat and if Maharaj's Hukam is for the Khalsa to win then so be it, if it is to lose then the Khalsa still stays in Gurmat and it's always in Chardikala. A Khalsa never forgets he is a Saint. The second Chamkaur Sahib battle when all the Singhs gave Shaheedi, the Khalsa didn't win the battle, but they stayed in Gurmat and won the biggest prize of all; Sachkhand. If Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj taught and was himself about winning worldly battles then with one Jaikara he would have ruled the whole world in a split second and all of the politicians (ruling powers) of today would be bowing their heads at Satguru's feet. Satguru is above such lowly ways and so is his Khalsa. Satguru has given us orders first to do Bhagti and understand what winning and losing is. Those Sikhs that want to conquer the world are diluded. Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj said the Khalsa will rule, but understand what this means. Many Sikhs are stuck in pleasing politicians to make this happen (get world opinion, focus on economy (make others better off so they favor the Sikhs)) and many are stuck in using the iron fist to make it happen. Satguru has disregarded both ways and took up the only way. With Pyare and defense in Gurmat to bring everyone to their knees to the teachings of Satguru. A mad lion can be brought to his knees without lifting a finger by the Saint. Do you or any other poster know how to take down a mad lion without lifting a finger? I don't....So if i lift a sword to fight another, who is mad and who is righteous?

I wouldnt have a problem with what you are saying if this was only about the individual. However, unfortunately, the actions of an individual can spiral out of control, and take the lives of many innocent people who are not even involved. Fair enough if a person wants to act and then accept the consequences. However, if an individual acts and there are unwelcome repercussions on other innocent people then that is just plain selfish and not in keeping with Sikhi.

The vast majority of Sikhs want peace. It is a common tactic of extremists in all communities to cause trouble, instigate problems, or even overreact to problems and create civil unrest with a view to 'radicalising the moderates' so that their agenda of revolution can take place.

You may think that you are being a good Sikh and acting in the interests of Sikhi but cause much more harm than good and the rest of the community must suffer the consequences of your holy crusade and pick up the pieces.

Now, you'll have to excuse me for sounding like a coward and not like a brave war-mongering kharkoo ready to blow himself up for Sikhi, but as it happens I value my life and my family and I would hate to take any action that would result in damage or loss of life to innocent people.

Someone who acts without any regard to the consequences is an <banned word filter activated> and someone acts in a way that negatively affects innocent people is extremely selfish and not a very good Sikh, in my humble opinion.

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I wouldnt have a problem with what you are saying if this was only about the individual. However, unfortunately, the actions of an individual can spiral out of control, and take the lives of many innocent people who are not even involved. Fair enough if a person wants to act and then accept the consequences. However, if an individual acts and there are unwelcome repercussions on other innocent people then that is just plain selfish and not in keeping with Sikhi.

The vast majority of Sikhs want peace. It is a common tactic of extremists in all communities to cause trouble, instigate problems, or even overreact to problems and create civil unrest with a view to 'radicalising the moderates' so that their agenda of revolution can take place.

You may think that you are being a good Sikh and acting in the interests of Sikhi but cause much more harm than good and the rest of the community must suffer the consequences of your holy crusade and pick up the pieces.

Now, you'll have to excuse me for sounding like a coward and not like a brave war-mongering kharkoo ready to blow himself up for Sikhi, but as it happens I value my life and my family and I would hate to take any action that would result in damage or loss of life to innocent people.

Someone who acts without any regard to the consequences is an <banned word filter activated> and someone acts in a way that negatively affects innocent people is extremely selfish and not a very good Sikh, in my humble opinion.

When the Mughals ruled during the period of the Sikh Misls and told women to convert or they would kill their children, were the Kaurs who refused bad Sikhs because innocent children died?

You pretend as though you know the will of Waheguruji, who are you to decide what is good and bad? If you follow the path of Guruji, then there is no such thing as bad. Although I disagree with Only Five Ji on other issues, he is right here

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I wouldnt have a problem with what you are saying if this was only about the individual. However, unfortunately, the actions of an individual can spiral out of control, and take the lives of many innocent people who are not even involved. Fair enough if a person wants to act and then accept the consequences. However, if an individual acts and there are unwelcome repercussions on other innocent people then that is just plain selfish and not in keeping with Sikhi.

The vast majority of Sikhs want peace. It is a common tactic of extremists in all communities to cause trouble, instigate problems, or even overreact to problems and create civil unrest with a view to 'radicalising the moderates' so that their agenda of revolution can take place.

You may think that you are being a good Sikh and acting in the interests of Sikhi but cause much more harm than good and the rest of the community must suffer the consequences of your holy crusade and pick up the pieces.

Now, you'll have to excuse me for sounding like a coward and not like a brave war-mongering kharkoo ready to blow himself up for Sikhi, but as it happens I value my life and my family and I would hate to take any action that would result in damage or loss of life to innocent people.

Someone who acts without any regard to the consequences is an <banned word filter activated> and someone acts in a way that negatively affects innocent people is extremely selfish and not a very good Sikh, in my humble opinion.

singh you do know innocent people were killed in the past during the wars with mughals and afghans...many sikhs were killed in cold blood because of the rebellious nature of the khalsa...sadly if we like it or not innocent peeople will always die in wars...no offence singh but i wouldnt think twice about putting every sikh in danger, including my family and yours if it meant fighting for justice and righteousness...if they die now or in 30/40 years i dont care...as long as we make a stand against tyranny and unjustice then thats all that matters..if you dont believe in that..then whats the point of being sikh? guruji says in bachittar natak that he has come to save the saints(rightesousness) and fight and hunt down the evil tyrants(unrighteousness)...what do you expect his sons to do?..sit around like cowards and worry about the materials possesions we have?...

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singh you do know innocent people were killed in the past during the wars with mughals and afghans...many sikhs were killed in cold blood because of the rebellious nature of the khalsa...sadly if we like it or not innocent peeople will always die in wars...no offence singh but i wouldnt think twice about putting every sikh in danger, including my family and yours if it meant fighting for justice and righteousness...if they die now or in 30/40 years i dont care...as long as we make a stand against tyranny and unjustice then thats all that matters..if you dont believe in that..then whats the point of being sikh? guruji says in bachittar natak that he has come to save the saints(rightesousness) and fight and hunt down the evil tyrants(unrighteousness)...what do you expect his sons to do?..sit around like cowards and worry about the materials possesions we have?...

I love this post

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Okay, so going on from OnlyFive's earlier point about not bothering to work within the constraints of the world's system (in as much as how it get's things done because they're in the same mess as us, only they pretend everything is fine) and remaining true to Gurmat, is the diplomatic and nation-building route never going to be on the table for us? Is it die or die trying? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but can a true Sikh not do the "statesman" role and make pacts and relationships in order to further the faith's long-term interests?

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Okay, so going on from OnlyFive's earlier point about not bothering to work within the constraints of the world's system (in as much as how it get's things done because they're in the same mess as us, only they pretend everything is fine) and remaining true to Gurmat, is the diplomatic and nation-building route never going to be on the table for us? Is it die or die trying? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but can a true Sikh not do the "statesman" role and make pacts and relationships in order to further the faith's long-term interests?

Your putting words in my mouth. Also your unable to see the middle path Satguru told us. Instead you keep talking about two extreme paths, making it an either-or situation.

Can you describe to us how Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj came to the conclusion of burning the Masands alive? Present this Sikh history to any outsider and they will call Satguru many slanderous names, maybe not to your face, but surely behind your back. And then add I'm a Sikh who fully endorses my Guru's actions. The person will walk 10 miles to avoid you the next time. Think about all the emotions a worldly person will go through before committing such actions. From a worldly point of view it is an under statement to call it barbaric. And the weak "Sikh" would even argue against it by saying didn't Satguru see God in them? Such actions can't be understood from a worldly point of view. Satguru always kept the lines of communication open. Even till the last second before the war, but never compromised Gurmat. Listen to Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa, he always kept the lines of communication open, but never left Gurmat. If the other side wants to discuss then let's discuss and come to a conclusion without war. But one thing the otherside should know is that Sikhs never move away from Gurmat. The Sikhs never said one thing and then acted against it. The diplomatic "Sikh" has no problem doing this and when they sit and discuss with politicians, they get sucked in and forget all about Satguru's teachings. We have an example of such display from Satguru's own son and we all know the punishment for doing such actions. Today Sikhs don't even think about Baba Ram Rai and how he was diplomatic and got kicked out of the Panth. Instead they favor such behavour and then cry when Satguru doesn't give them what they wanted. What do you think will happen when we act like Baba Ram Rai? Did we really expect a Golden Throne where the whole world bows at the Khalsa's feet....lol Khalsa is above such lowly actions. Satguru redefined how to be diplomatic and it has nothing to do with how it's defined today.

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