The Dutch Abandon Multiculturalism.

[Singh559]

http://my.telegraph....lticulturalism/

JULY 11TH, 2011 20:54

The Dutch abandon multiculturalism

By riteway

The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism which has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands

A new integration bill which the Dutch interior minister presented to parliament on June 16 2011 reads “ The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people. In the new integration system the values of Dutch society play a central role. With this change the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society”

The new integration policy will place more demands on immigrants. For example immigrants will be required to learn the Dutch language and the government will take a tougher approach to immigrants who ignore Dutch values or disobey Dutch law.

The government will also stop offering special subsidies to Muslim immigrants because according to the interior minister “ It is not the governments job to integrate immigrants” The government will outlaw forced marriages and will impose tougher measures against Muslim immigrants who lower their chances of employment by the way they dress. More specifically the government will impose a ban on face-covering Islamic burqas as of January 1 2013. Good for the Dutch as the saying goes “ When in Rome do as the Romans do”

[MyNameIsChris]

Good for them, they could take it a step further and freeze Muslim immigration altogether as well. If the Muslims really are causing that much trouble then it ain't worth the trouble. Plenty of other places to get immigrants and have a better chance of integrating them as well.

All of Europe needs to follow this measure if they want to save their civilization. Hopefully Canada and America will take note as well.

[Dev1975]

If the Dutch are doing this then you know they've really been pushed. They're usually so chilled out!

[Mehtab Singh]

Who could be next because of their religious attire?

[Singh559]

Muddy waters of society ideals vs. personal liberties.

I don't think they'd go against Sikhs. If a Sikh has bana on and is qualified for a job, they will get the job unless there is some actual reason for not hiring them. Blind political correctness isn't a good thing.

Are burqas a religious requirement or is it a cultural tradition gone extreme?

It's important to note Guru Sahib didn't allow woman to come into langar wearing the veil as it was a sign of oppression of the woman. Banning it on the other hand is something entirely different.

Sikhs should be able to discuss these issues openly to better equip ourselves to give answers and obtain them..

[VanHelsingh]

It's a prickly issue which requires balancing. Those of a forthright disposition might say there is no balancing required; religion and faith outweighs all. I also respect and understand that position. But I think immigrants, and I include myself in this group being the child of immigrants, we also have a requirement to see the complete picture. That doesn't mean relinquishing that which makes me what I am and compromising on all fronts to make others happy, but it also means not abusing the freedoms I have in whichever country I reside in.

Let's be honest, western governments (and would I be out of order if I said 'white people'?) would love it if we abandoned our faith, our ways and our systems in order to integrate. But seeing as that isn't going to happen then it is imperative we don't give certain people a reason to target the way we live our lives as we choose. If somebody does have a problem with that, it is not a reflection on us but more of an indictment on them fearing something they don't (or wish to) comprehend.

Sometimes policies such as these do smack of white superiority, but then you look at the other side of the coin and how certain Muslims behave, and you do wonder how else governments or societies can react to these situations if not impose these rather discomforting laws.

As Sikhs we shouldn't start celebrating when Muslims are being leant on so heavily, because the next group to fall under the spotlight could easily be us. We don't have to join hands with them and stand shoulder-to-shoulder, but we also shouldn't revel in their misfortune. Monitor the situation, weigh up the various options and act accordingly.

[Jonny101]

Lets just hope they don't go the same way as France in which all the minorities(including Sikhs) get punished for the actions the Muslims. But I feel ultimately that is what is going to happen.

[MyNameIsChris]

It's a prickly issue which requires balancing. Those of a forthright disposition might say there is no balancing required; religion and faith outweighs all. I also respect and understand that position. But I think immigrants, and I include myself in this group being the child of immigrants, we also have a requirement to see the complete picture. That doesn't mean relinquishing that which makes me what I am and compromising on all fronts to make others happy, but it also means not abusing the freedoms I have in whichever country I reside in.

Let's be honest, western governments (and would I be out of order if I said 'white people'?) would love it if we abandoned our faith, our ways and our systems in order to integrate. But seeing as that isn't going to happen then it is imperative we don't give certain people a reason to target the way we live our lives as we choose. If somebody does have a problem with that, it is not a reflection on us but more of an indictment on them fearing something they don't (or wish to) comprehend.

Sometimes policies such as these do smack of white superiority, but then you look at the other side of the coin and how certain Muslims behave, and you do wonder how else governments or societies can react to these situations if not impose these rather discomforting laws.

As Sikhs we shouldn't start celebrating when Muslims are being leant on so heavily, because the next group to fall under the spotlight could easily be us. We don't have to join hands with them and stand shoulder-to-shoulder, but we also shouldn't revel in their misfortune. Monitor the situation, weigh up the various options and act accordingly.

As far as I know Sikhs aren't doing anything in Europe that poses a threat to their culture/civilization. Islam has Shariah Law, and nothing remotely close exists in Sikhi. If they (Muslims) are not going to integrate, then can you really blame the Europeans?

This should have been done 10-20 years ago. Better late then never though, let's just hope it has a significant impact.

[Khaalis]

I wonder what Sachai Paatshah Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji would do in this situation.... especially where a faith is being asked to abandon it's religious attire, which according to their tradition (Hadiths selected and translated as per that school of thought) require them to wear Burqa or Hijab etc. Funnily enough, most women in the west I have spoken to, wear these items as a matter of choice and freedom of expression, rather than oppression. Elements of the Middle East are a different story.

The rest, of course there is a point. But the matter of intergration for 'some' Muslim nationalities/societies is not so simple. There is the matter of existing mistrust and hatred from teh host nation as well as the survivalist/don't trust anyone mentality these refuges/immigrants normally bring from their war torn countries e.g. Somalia.

To stereotype every Muslim under one label is nonsensical. Iranian, Malaysian, Morrocan, Indonesian, South Pakistani etc communities tend to settle in very well and contribute very well to society. The educated faction of so called' troublesome' communicites also do very well.

We also ignore the fact that there are many other communities that also have a parrallel existence i.e. Jewish community in Golder Green, where they get many religious concessions from the council affecting the public area. Many Punjabis in southall, smethwick and many other areas get by their whole life never having to speak a word of english, i still nkow many to this day.

Large elements of the Nigerian community also like to do their own thing, same is true for Filipino and South American etc etc, the list goes on.

The subject of laziness/unemployment/crime etc is relelvant to all people. In the UK its the white community that tops the charts, but this is never discussed as a problem, as well as the white community being the least educated amongts all ethnical groups.

I am aiming to play devils advocate, and see there is a lot of anti-Muslim feeling on this forum. Whilst I not concerned for PC'ness I do like to see a more accurate and deeply thought out picture.

Taking away any communities religious freedoms (as long as they don't harm others) is wrong. In the sikh viewpoint and the democratic viewpoint. Napolean was a great warrior for freedom of rights, it was he who freed the Jewish community from 600 years of abuse and degradation by the Vatican Catholics. He also released Europe from the Chrisitan/Monarchy oppression that had kep europe in the dark ages for over 500 years.

Seems as though those ideals are now being forgotten in the face of what 'seems' to be a good cause.

Anyone who thinks sikhs will not be next is hugely mistaken.

[Singh559]

I wonder what Sachai Paatshah Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji would do in this situation.... especially where a faith is being asked to abandon it's religious attire, which according to their tradition (Hadiths selected and translated as per that school of thought) require them to wear Burqa or Hijab etc. Funnily enough, most women in the west I have spoken to, wear these items as a matter of choice and freedom of expression, rather than oppression. Elements of the Middle East are a different story.

The rest, of course there is a point. But the matter of intergration for 'some' Muslim nationalities/societies is not so simple. There is the matter of existing mistrust and hatred from teh host nation as well as the survivalist/don't trust anyone mentality these refuges/immigrants normally bring from their war torn countries e.g. Somalia.

To stereotype every Muslim under one label is nonsensical. Iranian, Malaysian, Morrocan, Indonesian, South Pakistani etc communities tend to settle in very well and contribute very well to society. The educated faction of so called' troublesome' communicites also do very well.

We also ignore the fact that there are many other communities that also have a parrallel existence i.e. Jewish community in Golder Green, where they get many religious concessions from the council affecting the public area. Many Punjabis in southall, smethwick and many other areas get by their whole life never having to speak a word of english, i still nkow many to this day.

Large elements of the Nigerian community also like to do their own thing, same is true for Filipino and South American etc etc, the list goes on.

The subject of laziness/unemployment/crime etc is relelvant to all people. In the UK its the white community that tops the charts, but this is never discussed as a problem, as well as the white community being the least educated amongts all ethnical groups.

I am aiming to play devils advocate, and see there is a lot of anti-Muslim feeling on this forum. Whilst I not concerned for PC'ness I do like to see a more accurate and deeply thought out picture.

Taking away any communities religious freedoms (as long as they don't harm others) is wrong. In the sikh viewpoint and the democratic viewpoint. Napolean was a great warrior for freedom of rights, it was he who freed the Jewish community from 600 years of abuse and degradation by the Vatican Catholics. He also released Europe from the Chrisitan/Monarchy oppression that had kep europe in the dark ages for over 500 years.

Seems as though those ideals are now being forgotten in the face of what 'seems' to be a good cause.

Anyone who thinks sikhs will not be next is hugely mistaken.

Agreed.