Jump to content

The Dutch Abandon Multiculturalism.


Singh559
 Share

Recommended Posts

http://my.telegraph....lticulturalism/

JULY 11TH, 2011 20:54

The Dutch abandon multiculturalism

By riteway

The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism which has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands

A new integration bill which the Dutch interior minister presented to parliament on June 16 2011 reads “ The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people. In the new integration system the values of Dutch society play a central role. With this change the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society”

The new integration policy will place more demands on immigrants. For example immigrants will be required to learn the Dutch language and the government will take a tougher approach to immigrants who ignore Dutch values or disobey Dutch law.

The government will also stop offering special subsidies to Muslim immigrants because according to the interior minister “ It is not the governments job to integrate immigrants” The government will outlaw forced marriages and will impose tougher measures against Muslim immigrants who lower their chances of employment by the way they dress. More specifically the government will impose a ban on face-covering Islamic burqas as of January 1 2013. Good for the Dutch as the saying goes “ When in Rome do as the Romans do

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good for them, they could take it a step further and freeze Muslim immigration altogether as well. If the Muslims really are causing that much trouble then it ain't worth the trouble. Plenty of other places to get immigrants and have a better chance of integrating them as well.

All of Europe needs to follow this measure if they want to save their civilization. Hopefully Canada and America will take note as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Muddy waters of society ideals vs. personal liberties.

I don't think they'd go against Sikhs. If a Sikh has bana on and is qualified for a job, they will get the job unless there is some actual reason for not hiring them. Blind political correctness isn't a good thing.

Are burqas a religious requirement or is it a cultural tradition gone extreme?

It's important to note Guru Sahib didn't allow woman to come into langar wearing the veil as it was a sign of oppression of the woman. Banning it on the other hand is something entirely different.

Sikhs should be able to discuss these issues openly to better equip ourselves to give answers and obtain them..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a prickly issue which requires balancing. Those of a forthright disposition might say there is no balancing required; religion and faith outweighs all. I also respect and understand that position. But I think immigrants, and I include myself in this group being the child of immigrants, we also have a requirement to see the complete picture. That doesn't mean relinquishing that which makes me what I am and compromising on all fronts to make others happy, but it also means not abusing the freedoms I have in whichever country I reside in.

Let's be honest, western governments (and would I be out of order if I said 'white people'?) would love it if we abandoned our faith, our ways and our systems in order to integrate. But seeing as that isn't going to happen then it is imperative we don't give certain people a reason to target the way we live our lives as we choose. If somebody does have a problem with that, it is not a reflection on us but more of an indictment on them fearing something they don't (or wish to) comprehend.

Sometimes policies such as these do smack of white superiority, but then you look at the other side of the coin and how certain Muslims behave, and you do wonder how else governments or societies can react to these situations if not impose these rather discomforting laws.

As Sikhs we shouldn't start celebrating when Muslims are being leant on so heavily, because the next group to fall under the spotlight could easily be us. We don't have to join hands with them and stand shoulder-to-shoulder, but we also shouldn't revel in their misfortune. Monitor the situation, weigh up the various options and act accordingly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a prickly issue which requires balancing. Those of a forthright disposition might say there is no balancing required; religion and faith outweighs all. I also respect and understand that position. But I think immigrants, and I include myself in this group being the child of immigrants, we also have a requirement to see the complete picture. That doesn't mean relinquishing that which makes me what I am and compromising on all fronts to make others happy, but it also means not abusing the freedoms I have in whichever country I reside in.

Let's be honest, western governments (and would I be out of order if I said 'white people'?) would love it if we abandoned our faith, our ways and our systems in order to integrate. But seeing as that isn't going to happen then it is imperative we don't give certain people a reason to target the way we live our lives as we choose. If somebody does have a problem with that, it is not a reflection on us but more of an indictment on them fearing something they don't (or wish to) comprehend.

Sometimes policies such as these do smack of white superiority, but then you look at the other side of the coin and how certain Muslims behave, and you do wonder how else governments or societies can react to these situations if not impose these rather discomforting laws.

As Sikhs we shouldn't start celebrating when Muslims are being leant on so heavily, because the next group to fall under the spotlight could easily be us. We don't have to join hands with them and stand shoulder-to-shoulder, but we also shouldn't revel in their misfortune. Monitor the situation, weigh up the various options and act accordingly.

As far as I know Sikhs aren't doing anything in Europe that poses a threat to their culture/civilization. Islam has Shariah Law, and nothing remotely close exists in Sikhi. If they (Muslims) are not going to integrate, then can you really blame the Europeans?

This should have been done 10-20 years ago. Better late then never though, let's just hope it has a significant impact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder what Sachai Paatshah Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji would do in this situation.... especially where a faith is being asked to abandon it's religious attire, which according to their tradition (Hadiths selected and translated as per that school of thought) require them to wear Burqa or Hijab etc. Funnily enough, most women in the west I have spoken to, wear these items as a matter of choice and freedom of expression, rather than oppression. Elements of the Middle East are a different story.

The rest, of course there is a point. But the matter of intergration for 'some' Muslim nationalities/societies is not so simple. There is the matter of existing mistrust and hatred from teh host nation as well as the survivalist/don't trust anyone mentality these refuges/immigrants normally bring from their war torn countries e.g. Somalia.

To stereotype every Muslim under one label is nonsensical. Iranian, Malaysian, Morrocan, Indonesian, South Pakistani etc communities tend to settle in very well and contribute very well to society. The educated faction of so called' troublesome' communicites also do very well.

We also ignore the fact that there are many other communities that also have a parrallel existence i.e. Jewish community in Golder Green, where they get many religious concessions from the council affecting the public area. Many Punjabis in southall, smethwick and many other areas get by their whole life never having to speak a word of english, i still nkow many to this day.

Large elements of the Nigerian community also like to do their own thing, same is true for Filipino and South American etc etc, the list goes on.

The subject of laziness/unemployment/crime etc is relelvant to all people. In the UK its the white community that tops the charts, but this is never discussed as a problem, as well as the white community being the least educated amongts all ethnical groups.

I am aiming to play devils advocate, and see there is a lot of anti-Muslim feeling on this forum. Whilst I not concerned for PC'ness I do like to see a more accurate and deeply thought out picture.

Taking away any communities religious freedoms (as long as they don't harm others) is wrong. In the sikh viewpoint and the democratic viewpoint. Napolean was a great warrior for freedom of rights, it was he who freed the Jewish community from 600 years of abuse and degradation by the Vatican Catholics. He also released Europe from the Chrisitan/Monarchy oppression that had kep europe in the dark ages for over 500 years.

Seems as though those ideals are now being forgotten in the face of what 'seems' to be a good cause.

Anyone who thinks sikhs will not be next is hugely mistaken.

Agreed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • We have lamp (or Jyot) the pure unscented candle for a reason. Traditionally, Patis used candle light (jyot), so they could read SGGS in darkness. Light, elec didn't exist. Dhoop is used to attract the "Good spirits" but also keep freshness where Maharaj will be.  Interestingly and coincidentally I heard Sakhi a few dsys ago. During Dasa Pitha's time these souls were roaming the Earth and even Sangat noticed. Maharaj asked them "y u here?" They replied during recitation of SGGS and making Degh they didn't bother lighting candle. THAT WAS THEE ONLY REASON NO GATI WAS GIVEN TO THEM!!!  AUTHENTICITY NOT CHECKED I heard once on YT like 2 days ago.  If u apply dhoop in one room of your house twice a week u will notice a difference esp in the smell and freshness of that room. 
    • Sangat ji, With the hot weather as per Guru's Hukm, how can we look after our kes?  First of all the beard! Working in Construction, factory and any other heated environment I UNDERSTAND! At my workplace it's over 32 degree celcius and sometimes we have to lift 20kg ALL! DAY! My tips, regularly shampoo the beard during ishnan. APPLY OIL! The technique of applying oil is by rubbing it thoroughly in the roots. Pay attention to the noise esp on the chin. You will hear this "crosh crosh" noise. Keep rubbing oil until u can't hear it no more! This means the oil has blended in properly.  Second tip on beard, keep an extra kanga in your pocket. Every two, three hours give your beard a proper comb down to get rid of any sweat or stickiness. SECOND BENEFIT! Do this all 12 months every single day your beard will look like it's been professionally groomed. TRY IT! People will ask you "What gel u use? How can yer beard be naturally like that?" You can say all I use is coconut oil or whaeva oil but just comb the beard every 2-3 hours for a minute.  As for the kes, morning time get rid of all the gronjra (or knots - forgotten English word), in the morning. However, during evening comb down make sure you get rid of small remaining gronjra and comb yer hair nice and straight. You will feel soooo so relaxed. Yes our hair will go unnoticed due to Dastar, but our hair demands time and self grooming!So proper combing down, spending a good 15-20 mins most evenings is an absolute MUST!  Most evenings I let my hair down and cover hair with my parna for 2-3 hours so it gets to relax from the tying up.  FINAL TIP! We are Sikhs so we keep fighting and remember this! The tradition of Dastar and uncut hair started in India, where the weather is twice as hot. Everytime we bring this thought in the mind, Guru ji will bless us and make us feel cooled down by a notch.  Fateh.       
    • Been so much nindya and attacking Shastarvidiya since the 2000s, however if we look at gatka now it's still mostly as poor and poorly taught as it was back then, still morris dancing moves and still behzti moves in BBC shows about sikhi and vaisakhi. If people were going to attack shastarvidiya, wouldn't have made sense to improve gatka instead and make it more effective? Additionally, the Nihang Singh presence has improved greatly now, and the cracks within the the SGPC and affiliated jatha jathebandis are showing more greatly as panth becomes more knowledgable with dasam bani and itihas day-by-day, so much gyaan which was lost within panjabi sikhs during colonial times. In the 2000s, the groups were able to talk down this bani and  gyaan by associating it with  RSS and hindus, brahminwaad etc. Not working so well now is it? However with gyaan it would be also good for us to try and preserve our martial arts and keertan vidiya as well! More and more crazy keertan videos are coming out from jatha members that are being made fun of and making sangat annoyed and upset, on tiktok and instagram reels.  
    • Author Posted April 24   On 4/21/2025 at 2:43 PM, ipledgeblue said: sirr should not be nanga because keski is usually worn.   Sikhs can sleep nanga-sirr if they choose to . Being from Punjab, almost every Sardaarji i know (amritdhari or not) sleeps/showers with their hair uncovered. I don't think Guru Sahib asked us to wear Dastar to sleep and I don't think it is in SRM.   The idea of "keski being worn to sleep" is cos in Bollywood films (Bachna Ae Haseeno) Sikh characters usually tie a gol parna when sleeping since the actor's usually Hindu. So they gotta cover his head somehow or he'd have cut hair. Same reason Diljit wore a pagg to bed in the El Sueno vid. Only time they didn't do that was in Gadar with Sunny Deol which just looked odd tbh   What in the world? What sikh or even a decent human would base their knowledge of their culture or religion on a movie industry, that too Bollywood?  Believe me, no sikh ever said, I must cover my head becasue an actor did so in a movie. I've been doing it all wrong, I must start covering mh head because the sikh in that movie did.  Just because every panjabi and sardaar you know, does something, also doesn't make it right..  Follow the guru. And if you have a medical condition, then exemptions can be made.  Just admit it, because of my medical condition, I am not able to follow this rehit. Why are you getting everyone else to drop to your level?
    • Wasn't Guru Arjan Dev's martyrdom on amd always commemorated on 6th June? How come it was 30th May?  Just like 6th June 84, where the likes of Terrorists like Indira Gandhi chose to attack Darbar Sahib where many many innocent Sikhs would suffer, as they went to commemorate Martyrdom of Maharaj. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use