Were the Kharkoos wrong?

[Deep Singh]

I am going to start a kind of special topic.....it is related to what happened in russia today.

The thing is: i was thinking....in the 80s and 90s...we all know that indian authorities killed thousands of sikhs. and we also know that kharkoos fought for independence.

but it is also true that there were sikhs who hijacked planes, who robbed banks, killed innocent people...all for Khalistan. It is right that by hijacking planes, they got the interational attentiob, by robbing banks...got the money from india.....BUT nothing can justify killing innocent people. i don't mean Sukha-Jinda finishing Vaidya and Beanta etc...i mean school children as the ones who were killed in russia today. NOTHING CAN JUSTIFY A SUCH ACT!

I know that most people will say that they were not Khalistanis or true Sikhs, but that doesn't matter...it doesn't matter if they weren't from this jatha or that. i am aware of kalleh kache wale, and they were terrorist cops...not Khalistanis. BUT the Kharkoos i am talking about, they were common Khalistanis, from Dal Khalsa, KCF, etc. they hijacked planes....also some killed innocent in shouting and engagement with police, or families of policemen. that is not right!

I just like to say...i don't support that kind of "khalistani freedom". If someone is going to do something for Sikh Nation: DO IT IN THE RIGHT WAY! be active, be educated, be active in politics, use your right to vote and work within the ethical framework.

hijacking planes doesn't help...nor does killing innocent people....remember Waheguru is everywhere....you mustn't hate others. that is like hating Waheguru....would you do that?

[Mkhalsa]

While others may start a heated argument. I agree with Deep Singh and his intentions. This post makes sense, basically what you are saying is do not give up your morals to fight for sikhi, sikhi IS your morals.

In the old days gursikhs held such high morals that if they captured a village or women and children they wouldnt even look at the women, they wouldnt touch peoples property and they wouldnt indulge in anything. But on the other hand if they found a dusht, they would get a swift and painless death.

In the 80s there were many Singhs like this. Some of the main babbars were highly moral and spoke and acted like the singhs of olden days, perhaps it was them again come back.

There were singhs of other groups with such high morals as well such as baba jarnail singh and some of his main singhs. there were others as well but I wont get into that.

Looting banks was necessary though in certain cases. All banks were insured by the government so they were attacking india economically, isnt this better than doing it militarily, ie killing? By taking their money they weaken the government. AND they get funding for their activities. They werent stealing to buy themselves mercedes and mansions like the sant babas of punjab today.

plane hijacking, ok its wrong.. BUT I know of two incidents where it wasnt so wrong. First one is a gursikh who was refused entry to the plane due to his kirpan, because of him we have the right to wear it on planes in india. He used a sock with a ball in it and called it a bomb and hijacked a plane. He made a point that if he can do it with a sock and a ball, why not allow his kirpan on?

the second incident is a few gursikhs who want

ed the world to look and see whats happening in punjab, because of the media blackout nobody knew what was going on. These singhs (i am not sure exactly here) dropped off all the passengers, made sure nobody was hurt. They were caring and just did it because they had no other way to make a global statement. Again nobody was hurt, nothing bad happened, i dont think it was wrong, it was morally just.

idiots like al quada, chechnyan rebels, other islamic extremists on the other hand are out to kill people, they dont care who they kill, as long as they arent muslims, well actually no, they will kill muslims too. they just like killing and dont have any real cause to fight for. They arent fighting for human rights or freedom, theres like 20-30 islamic countries, NEWS FLASH: MOVE THERE AND LEAVE US ALONE. on the other hand sikhs dont have a country, are highly moral, and dont kill unless they are forced to.

and your third point was about singhs killing innocent people. This is a myth. It rarely ever happened. Singhs did not purposely kill any innocent people. I know that for a fact. This is a grossly exaggerated myth that the government wants everyone to think khalistanis killed like 200,000 hindus or something, maybe 1 or 2 innocent deaths happened as a by-product of waging a military war, ie someone may have gotten in the path of a bomb blast or gun fire. But most innocent deaths happened at the hands of the police and police who were impersonating singhs. This is fact.

So again, I agree with you entirely deep singh, morals are very important and thats what sikhi is about, when the whole rest of the world is burning in hell fire, sikhs will still be highly moral and stick to gurmat.

[Deep Singh]

Thanks for the post. Mkhalsa!

It makes sense..

[S1ngh]

There were some gundayys/bad guys who started joining into the true fauj of sant jee.. The reason they joined is to get protection.. one may ignore the fact but in reality there were some bad apples and singhs didn't know about their bad deeds !!!!

[Guest stopsingh2]

and your third point was about singhs killing innocent people. This is a myth. It rarely ever happened. Singhs did not purposely kill any innocent people. I know that for a fact. This is a grossly exaggerated myth that the government wants everyone to think khalistanis killed like 200,000 hindus or something, maybe 1 or 2 innocent deaths .

I think if you review some of the Punjabi newspapers that used to publish the statements from the Panthic Committees laying claim to various killings you will see that the killing of innocents was not isolated.

Look at the massacre at Kari Sari, where many innocent people were shot dead just becasue they were attending a Hindu religious festival. Again the Sikh groups did not deny responsibility but actually published a statement claiming to have undertaken the killings.

It is a romanticised grossly exaggerated myth that the militants did not kill innocent people.

[S1ngh]

Look at the massacre at Kari Sari, where many innocent people were shot dead just becasue they were attending a Hindu religious festival. Again the Sikh groups did not deny responsibility but actually published a statement claiming to have undertaken the killings.

Where is the fact ?? (just want to know the source..)

[Guest stopsingh2]

Look at the massacre at Kari Sari, where many innocent people were shot dead just becasue they were attending a Hindu religious festival. Again the Sikh groups did not deny responsibility but actually published a statement claiming to have undertaken the killings.

Where is the fact ?? (just want to know the source..)

Find old copies of Des Pardes and Awaze Quam from the 1980s and early 1990s and read the printed statements from militant groups claiming reponsibility for all sort of acts which many would term acts of terrorism.

If these were carried out by police infiltrators then the panthic committees could have denied responsibility rather than claiming the acts.

Family members of policemen were also killed including small children. Never understood the logic behind such acts and of similar acts carried out by the police. In the end it was a never ending circle of violence with the ordinary people being terrorised by the sate and the militants.

[Yasmin]

Just a note: please no one interrupt this thread to have a discussion about this with me but

theres like 20-30 islamic countries, NEWS FLASH: MOVE THERE AND LEAVE US ALONE.

There is not one true islamic country in the world. There are many muslim populated countries but no country truely follows Islam, instead they have made their own barbaric rules and claimed it is from Islam. So what you say here is not entirely correct.

A good thoughtful post Deep Singh which can be applied to any and every community. If only the trouble makers would listen in the first place!!

[Mkhalsa]

Look at the massacre at Kari Sari, where many innocent people were shot dead just becasue they were attending a Hindu religious festival. Again the Sikh groups did not deny responsibility but actually published a statement claiming to have undertaken the killings.

Where is the fact ?? (just want to know the source..)

Find old copies of Des Pardes and Awaze Quam from the 1980s and early 1990s and read the printed statements from militant groups claiming reponsibility for all sort of acts which many would term acts of terrorism.

If these were carried out by police infiltrators then the panthic committees could have denied responsibility rather than claiming the acts.

Family members of policemen were also killed including small children. Never understood the logic behind such acts and of similar acts carried out by the police. In the end it was a never ending circle

of violence with the ordinary people being terrorised by the sate and the militants.

I will ask the singhs and get back to you.

[Guest stopsingh2]

Look at the massacre at Kari Sari, where many innocent people were shot dead just becasue they were attending a Hindu religious festival. Again the Sikh groups did not deny responsibility but actually published a statement claiming to have undertaken the killings.

Where is the fact ?? (just want to know the source..)

Find old copies of Des Pardes and Awaze Quam from the 1980s and early 1990s and read the printed statements from militant groups claiming reponsibility for all sort of acts which many would term acts of terrorism.

If these were carried out by police infiltrators then the panthic committees could have denied responsibil

ity rather than claiming the acts.

Family members of policemen were also killed including small children. Never understood the logic behind such acts and of similar acts carried out by the police. In the end it was a never ending circle of violence with the ordinary people being terrorised by the sate and the militants.

I will ask the singhs and get back to you.

OK

Here is an interview with a former big time militant which you may find informative.

We were ISI puppets: Zaffarwal

Prabhjot Singh and Varinder Walia

Tribune News Service

Baba Bakala, April 20

Long isolation, survival on a pittance and donations and the realisation that violence was no solution to any problem were the factors that forced Wassan Singh Zaffarwal, a once ruthless leader of the Khalistan Commando Force (Zaffarwal), to retract his stand on “Khalistan” and seek “a return to the mainstream”.

“I have always felt sorry for those innocent victims who fell to the bullets of militants during turbulence in Punjab. I wish I could go to the families of the victims of that ‘madness’ and explain to them how people like me were used as mere ‘puppets’ by the Pakistan-based ISI”, Wassan Singh Zaffarwal, one of the most wanted militants in the late 80s and early 90s, said here today.

“I feel that the age between 25 years and 40 years is the time when one has to channelise one’s energies in a positive way. It was this period of my life with which I wreaked havoc. I strayed on to a path of destruction and got into wrong hands. Once I was there I could not come out. It was like slush in which I had sunk myself deeper and deeper to reach a stage of no return”, he said when The Tribune team caught with him while he was being brought here from the place of his detention for extension of police remand.

Mr S.S. Dhaliwal, Additional Civil Judge, ext

ended his remand until April 23. Earlier, he was medically examined at the Civil Hospital here.

“Once I openly opposed the plans given to us for execution in Punjab. The result was that I was sent to solitary confinement for six months. Otherwise we always had a ‘munshi’ supervising our activities in the ‘kothis’ we stayed in Pakistan”, he said disclosing that he went to Pakistan thrice with the last visit in 1987 extending till July, 1996, when he finally left that country for “good” for greener pastures in Switzerland.

But once there he was reduced to being a parasite living on the doles of the Swiss Government and donations from the UK-based Council of Khalistan”.

After his visit to Pakistan in 1984, which lasted a month, he returned and announced “Khalistan” from Akal Takht. He returned to Pakistan in 1986 for a fortnight and then went back in 1987.

It was between 1984 and 1991 that Zaffarwal had 15 cases of murder, attempt to murder, secession, waging a war against the nation and other criminal acts registered against him.

Of the eight cases in which he was registered a proclaimed offender, the first one attempt to murder was registered against him at Dasuya when militants opened fire at a medical hall, seriously injuring the two brothers running the shop.

Another case of murder and attempt to murder was registered against him on January 25 the following year when a group of militants opened indiscriminate fire at Dasuya, killing two persons besides injuring eight.

Yet another case of indiscriminate firing three persons lost their lives at Dhariwal on May 6, 1985. He was one of five suspects named in the case. In the same year in the month of November, Zaffarwal and Tarsem Singh Kohar were named in an FIR after the Sarpanch of Udoke Kalan was shot and one of his accomplice injured in a shootout.

In February, 1986, Zaffarwal was named in another case of murder and attempt to murder when four persons were killed in indiscriminate firing. The last case of

murder and attempt to murder was registered against him in 1991 when Balwinder Singh was dragged out of his house and shot in the jurisdiction of the Amritsar Sadar police station.

Zaffarwal denies his presence or involvement in any of these cases. Besides, there are two cases of sedition registered against him in Amritsar in 1986 and 1989.

“We were under our Pakistan bosses. They would tell us to write letters and issue directions to our men in the field. These were sent through special couriers. Our operations were mainly funded through money coming from our sources in Europe and North America. The money was transferred in the name of certain shopkeepers of Lahore or Sialkot and we would draw cash from them. The ISI provided us well-furnished kothis. Some of us were provided cars like Toyota Corolla but we had to seek permission for every outing.

“I did attend some of the training camps, including those in handling explosives and firearms. I can fire a rocket and use an AK-47. We had the maximum recruitment in 1988-89. I may have provided firearms to 300-odd members of my organisation, besides getting 65 to 70 of them trained in the use of firearms.

“We used to get copies of Indian newspapers, including Punjabi Tribune, at our ‘kothis’. I used to feel bad for the killing of innocent persons. Dr Jagjit Singh Chauhan also always opposed killings of innocents. Others who opposed these were Tejinder Singh, I.S. Bal and D.S. Sandhu.

“Since we were under their control, whenever we opposed such a move we were threatened that we would be dropped at the border. Under threat we kept quiet,” he said, maintaining that such actions also led to rumblings within militant organisations.

“In one case, two youngsters — Pal Singh and “Nihang” were shot in their sleep by the leader of their group, a veterinary doctor (P.S. Sekhon). His accomplices left him and joined the Paramjit Singh Panjwar’s group there. This led to another clash between Sekhon’s group and Panjwar’s group. Paramjit Si

ngh Panjwar, whose family has now got political asylum in Germany, was the most ruthless.”

“While I was in Pakistan, others who were living in kothis like me included Paramjit Singh Panjwar, Wadhawa Singh Babbar, Mahil Singh Babbar, Gajinder Singh, Lakhbir Singh Rode, P.S. Sekhon and Balbir Singh Sandhu. Mahil Singh has his family in Canada now while Wadhawa Singh Babbar lives with his wife, son and a daughter in Pakistan. His second daughter has been married to someone in Germany,” Zaffarwal disclosed.

Talking about his initiation into militancy, he said he made friends with Tarsem Singh Kohar without realising that he was a militant. “One of his friends, Madan Lal Maddi, was arrested by the police. He named me. For fear of police arrest and harassment, I left my home and never returned. My brother was taken into custody. My mother was detained. My father remained with the police for eight years. Once I left home, I got into the hands of the ISI. Initially, I felt uncomfortable but once I got into the Damdami Taksal fold, I started feeling safe.

“Under the circumstances, I had no choice but to oblige my masters. I could not return home for fear of the Army and the police. We never claimed responsibility. But mostly these were our men in the field who made these claims. But I can tell you I was never involved any killing,” he said.

“I want to be back with my people, with my family, in my own country. I had been desperate to return home. I am ready to face the consequences for my actions. To be honest, I wanted to be back last year. In February, I went to Rome and used photocopies of the passport of another Indian, Charanjit Singh, to obtain an Emergency Travel Certificate from the Indian Embassy in Rome. I put my picture and changed the date of birth from 1976 to 1956.