Amrit Sanchaar - Panj Pyaray Kamayi?

[SheikhFareed]

I was wondering for sadsangats views on this.

Mods, please keep this open as long as possible. sadsangat please refrain from personal attacks.

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When a person takes amrit, should they judge on kamayi of the panj. As someone said to me a long time ago that were to take amrit, you must decide by seeing the life and how much kamayi from the panj.

I took amrit when I was 9 years old in India. But I was too young then, and did not know much, i took because my family was all gursikh and my father would teach us and took all my brothers and sisters to take amrit when they were over 8.

When I moved from India and got knowledge of rehats and sikhi by age of 23 I decided to take amrit again properly with my own choice. This time I was told to see the panj pyaras and see if they have a good jivan.

I spent a couple of years back in India with family and decided which place to get amrit. But I also followed some of the Singhs in the panj as I knew who was going to be in there because I asked local gursikhs who already took amrit from this place. Mainly, I followed the jathedar. I tried to keep my distance from him and see how he lived. He would walk around in the baranda outside near the Gurdwara and I saw him doing simran with mala. I remember sitting and watching from far, it became so hot watching and I fell asleep maybe for nearly 1 hour. When I woke, I still saw him there doing simran. I got up from my place and the floor was marble and very hot, i forgot my juthee in front of the gurdwara, the jathedar spotted me in pain and he ran over to me and said 'Baba Jee, meyree juthee lehlo' - as in baba take my shoes. He had sandals and I reluctantly took them, as he looked fine in heat because his feet were pakhay.I got my shoes and then gave his back.

I then went to darbar and cried in front of guroo ji because I realised where I was to take amrit.

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That above is short of my story. But my point was that I felt that their kamayi still runs through me.

I dont know! Since then it has been many years, i felt the benefits of this.

Because I know some panj may not have as much kamayi (sorry i cant think of a nice way to put this), but then when in panj will they be able to be Guru Gobind Singh? who did so much kamayi as dusht daman, many yugs. So how can this be. Should we think about panj kamayi before we chose where to take this amrit?

Daasan Daas,

Mothi

[SunSingh]

their kamai helps. but remember, the punj are not the guru, they are the Guru's ROOP (form). By remembering this we see that there is no contradiction.

[SheikhFareed]

their kamai helps. but remember, the punj are not the guru, they are the Guru's ROOP (form). By remembering this we see that there is no contradiction.

Thanks for your reply. What is the differnece between roop and Guru? I dont understand. sorry. as guru gobind singh said guru granth sahib is guru roop and also that sangat is their toop and the panj pyaray.

[SheikhFareed]

saw view parr iko reply. eh kamaal dhee gal ya!

sadsangat kithay dhorrgayee..menu vee baksho.

[rrss]

I seek guidance on this subject as I feel my time to take Amrit is coming soon. I want it to be a spiritual rebirth, I don't want this to be just a ritual..

I've been reading Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji's autobiography who talks about his Amrit journey. I have quoted the relevant pages below (English translation, Kindle edition). Note the two paragraphs in bold- the first would appear to answer veerji's original question about 'kamayi'.

If we accept Bhai Sahib's reasoning, we don't need to worry about picking and choosing panj pyare, however I'm concerned about the issue of imparting naam. Bhai Sahib did not have a very positive experience in this respect. He did not feel the spiritual energy when the divine name was passed on to him (He later spent years meditating and yearning for naam and finally got blessed, with none other than "waheguru", which is another story).

Veerji (OP), did you experience anything special or lack thereof during the Amrit ceremony, like Bhai Sahib has described below?

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Extract from Autobiography of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, 2012 Kindle Edition

A Sublime Spiritual Experience

It was the annual function of Gujjarwal Singh Sabha. A large sangat (congregation) had gathered together. Musicians from Amritsar were singing Asa di //. Suddenly I passed into a deep Samadhi and blissful state. For the first time in my life the Sadh Sangat now appeared to be a heaven on earth. All round, I felt a rain of nectar-laved joy which was sweet and thrilling. The whole sky was filled with waves of ambrosia. I felt that I merged and bathed in a sea of nectar. Inside and outside my body I felt heavenly bliss. This experience gave me an unusual spiritual joy in which my mind and soul were diving as if in a sea of joy. For a moment I felt that I was not sitting in this world. There were the Panj Pyaras (the Five beloved Knights) who baptized. One of the Panj Pyaras came towards me from behind. It appeared he was descending from the heavenly realm of Truth only to take me along with him. As I sat deeply absorbed in Samadhi, kirtan was going on in front of me, while the same Beloved One out of Panj Pyaras was coming towards me in a love-lorn mood from behind. The music of the highest spiritual realm was ringing all around and he moved in tune with this music. It appeared that I had two eyes even at my back, because without turning back, I could see that was happening behind me. All these things appeared to be happening in the astral sphere. The heavenly messenger (one out of the Panj Pyaras) was now seen coming close to me. He silently came and stood behind me and touched me with his magnetic astral finger. With a strange power he held me by my hand and took me in the direction from which he came. He did not utter a word, nor could I speak. Although I did not like to leave the kirtan which was going on there, yet I followed him irresistibly in great joy and expectation. I thought he will take me to the heavenly realms from where he came. In deep contemplative silence, I followed the beloved figure who appeared to be an embodiment of love. I did not even feel the movement of my feet. In an instant I was taken to a strange spiritual realm where there was untold peace and bliss. The holy Guru Granth was placed there and over it was a canopy. Someone was waving the chowri reverently. The Panj Pyaras (the five Beloved ones) of the Guru stood there with humility and reverence before Guru Granth Sahib and this celestial figure, who took me there, bowed before the Guru Granth Sahib with such deep reverence as I had never witnessed before. I also bowed with the same reverence and humility. I was so deeply absorbed in the humble salutation that the celestial figure bestowed benediction on me and asked me to rise up. What I now saw was, that a Sikh was waving the chowri and five Sikhs stood there ready to perform the baptism ceremony. I was not able to speak but it appeared I was silently trying to tell them these words. “Sir, if you find that I am fit for baptism, may I please be baptized now. I am yearning for baptism. There cannot be a better occasion than this. I would feel greatly blessed.” Then, one of them said “If you wish to be baptized bring your wife also with you.” When these words came to my ears I suddenly came out of the spiritual mood of ecstasy. The whole celestial atmosphere disappeared as if a screen had suddenly dropped over it. I found myself again in the Singh Sabha Gurudwara Gujjarwal. Five Sikhs were standing in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib and amongst them was the same mysterious figure who had taken me to a higher spiritual realm. Now when I looked at him closely I found him to be a friend and brother disciple. I now realized that I had seen all the Panj Pyaras in their astral body but now I could see them in their physical body also. I said to them, it was better if they could baptize me all alone. They smiled and uttered this couplet: “By Thy grace O Merciful Lord The whole family has boarded the ship And been baptized” Adi Guru Granth: Kabir: Gaudi p. 337 Thus they instructed me to bring my wife and have her baptized along with me and not to leave her behind, on this spiritual path. They said many other things which I do not remember. I humbly promised and asked them if I could again get such a wonderful opportunity for being baptized. They said in words full of blessing “You will get a far better opportunity”. This blessing encouraged me and I started waiting patiently for the day. For many years I had been preparing as a novice for baptism with a deep devotion and longing. Now I felt that I was a suitable candidate for baptism. In the beginning I was of the opinion that the Panj Pyaras should be of my choice but this was an error and a mistake. Such a doubt had already been dispelled. The Sadh Sangat or the Khalsa Panth alone had the right to select the Panj Pyaras and not those who seek baptism. Those who seek baptism are only novices. It is not possible for them to make a judgement or to test the Panj Pyaras. If at all they make a judgement or apply some test it would be of a low order. But the spiritual experience which I had on this day convinced me that if a seeker after baptism is sincere and pure he will get the Panj Pyaras of the spiritual order he deserves. It so happens that the seeker’s own virtues and qualities bear proper fruit. Nothing is achieved by shrewdness and ingenuity. So I left everything in the hands of the Almighty God and was waiting for the great day according to His sweet Will.

Receiving Baptism

At last the day of my baptism came nearer. For me it was to be a new spiritual birth and a new life. I was to die to this world and was to be born again in the spirit of the Guru. Unexpectedly, the day was made known to me, for which I had been waiting impatiently like a honey-bee thirsting for the beauty of the flower. I expected that day to be known at any time suddenly, when I would get the heavenly nectar as a gift of God. At last, one day, I felt the divine call when I came to know that at Bakapur in Tehsil Phillaur, District Jullundur, a unique religious gathering was being organised and an impressive baptism ceremony was to be held. (This was specially organized to baptize a Muslim divine, Maulvi Karim Bakhsh along with his family, into the Khalsa faith. After the baptism he came to be known as Sant Lakhbir Singh). Whenever I came to-know of any religious gathering I eagerly went there to enjoy the spiritual bliss of the holy congregation. Now when I came to know that there would be an amrit parchar (baptism ceremony) I at once went there. Many other friends from our village joined me. On the way other jathas joined us. When we got down at Phillaur station we started kirtan and went on foot to Bakapur singing divine songs all along the way distance of three miles. It was a large gathering of the Sikh community in which all prominent leaders, saints and devotees had gathered together. It was in every way a grand Khalsa Diwan (community gathering) which I had witnessed for the first time in my life. It is not necessary to write much more about this gathering. I was full of hope and joy and was eagerly waiting for the baptism ceremony. When there was a call for those who wished to be baptized some power moved me and I stood up with folded hands and begged the holy congregation to bless me with the ambrosial baptism (Amrita) if they found me suitable and deserving. I would feel blessed, if along with others, I was also baptized. By the grace of God my request was accepted. Some more persons from our village got ready for the Amrita. Then a good many more came forward. Out of them only those who deserved and were prepared in every way for the Amrita (baptism) were selected. They were asked to take a bath and wash their hair. Then they were brought before the holy Guru Granth Sahib for the baptism ceremony. Before the ceremony started, a man came from outside and started telling us about the divine Name. Because of this unceremonious method of imparting the divine Name, its spiritual significance failed to be revealed to us. We did not experience the magnetism of the divine Name. Thus the divine Name failed to spiritually inspire me. Its contemplation also was difficult without the proper inspiration from the Panj Pyaras. But there was no doubt, I experienced a distinct change and spiritual rebirth in my inner being and truly felt a new life, a new youth and a new spiritual vision of life. The Panj Pyaras then instructed us with the essential code of conduct, which they commanded us to practise even at the cost of life. To me these ethical commands and the principles of Sikh idealism appeared to be personal commands of Guru Gobind Singh, which have been imparted from heart to heart and soul to soul as perennial inspiration by the Khalsa for centuries. To live and practise these ethical commands, to the letter, became the sole aim of my religious and spiritual life. To me, to strictly adopt these principles of the Khalsa code of conduct was the only path of liberation. After acquiring this spiritual birth in the Holy Order of the Khalsa, I vowed to maintain the purity and sublimity of this miraculous spiritual birth. When I came home after baptism, everybody felt that there was a distinct change in me, and everyone was surprised at the change. The rest of my family had not yet entered the spiritual life of the Khalsa Holy Order. I made up my mind not to take any food from the hands of those who had not been baptized. My wife had gone to her paternal home. So she failed to join me in baptism. Arrangements for her baptism had to be made only when she came. I could not ask my father and mother to go in for baptism. So I started cooking my own food. All my life I had never cooked any food. When everyone saw me taking such keen interest and having such orthodox attitude towards spiritual life my parents and other members of the family felt naturally inclined to be baptised partly through personal attachment and partly through the new inspiration. So within a month all the members of the family including my wife who had come back from her parent’s home were baptised. Earlier our marriage ceremony had been performed according to Vedic rites. Now we were remarried according to Sikh rites after her baptism.

[SheikhFareed]

What Bhai Sahib has said there I agree with.

I was young at first, I thought it was like empty feeling. But now I realize that this is not our choice. I also found that these experiences are not important at all. Amrit is just accepting the Guroo as your teacher, as a guide and that you will do whatever Guru Nanak says from that day on. It is just beginning of journey, it is not about experiences or ras and all this.

[ks55]

Questioning the jeevan of panj has come about due to the some jathas don't administer amrit properly.

Now this is a fact at Ananpur sahib - a freind of mine took amrit there - and said he couldn't even here the nitnem being recited as they prepared amrit as there was so many sangat that wanted amrit that day. So no wonder we have people complainnig as above.

however on the other side of the coin - you went had amrit - then you found another set of jathas who are even in more chardee kala - so take amrit there no harm done.At the end of the day amrit is filling in the form in for the schooling of Khalsa - which is a life mission for an individual .

[N30S1NGH]

Whilst panj pyares kamayi matters to some extent when they administer amrit but what matters is also - the capacity of those who receives amrit. If capacity of jaigaso cannot hold/fathom certain energy of amrit then collectively students have no reason to whine about panj pyares kamayi.

I remember reading a sakhi one of maharaja (i think maharaj yadwinder singh) in patiala showing ahankari attitude towards mahapursh like- sant attar singh ji reru sahib when maharaja was encouraged to take amrit. He turned out and said in 1699, all panj pyares were bhramgyani mahapursh, find me all bhramgyani mahapursh in form of panj and then i will take amrit. Mahapursh's all got together and discussed this to break his ahankar. Mahapursh suchs as- sant jwala singh ji harkhowale, sant attar singh ji reru sahib wale, sant attar singh ji mustaneywale, sant sunder singh ji bhindranwale and there was another mahapursh (forgot his name) all together in form of panj and gave him amrit but he couldn't stand the jvala/tej/pratap of all bhramgyani karak mahapursh and intensity of amrit upon his request mahapursh all their lover pratap and tej gave him amrit then maharaja apologize to mahapursh then he was given updesh- people who regularly question panj pyare kamayi should also work on their own capacity to fathom the tej/partap of all five bhramgyani in form of panj preparing amrit and should work on capacity to take the intensity of amrit being prepared by bhramgyani mahapursh in form of panj..!!!!!

But with that being said, regardless of whoever panj pyares are consider panj pyares as guru roop , it all depends on your perception. If your perception is quite superfical just like that maharaja above you won't be able to see guru maharaj in form of panj pyares even if the real panj pyares are standing infront of you and you will see miss the boat by wrapping your head around these small nitty gritty details....!!

[SheikhFareed]

I remember reading a sakhi one of maharaja (i think maharaj yadwinder singh) in patiala showing ahankari attitude towards mahapursh like- sant attar singh ji reru sahib when maharaja was encouraged to take amrit. He turned out and said in 1699, all panj pyares were bhramgyani mahapursh, find me all bhramgyani mahapursh in form of panj and then i will take amrit. Mahapursh's all got together and discussed this to break his ahankar. Mahapursh suchs as- sant jwala singh ji harkhowale, sant attar singh ji reru sahib wale, sant attar singh ji mustaneywale, sant sunder singh ji bhindranwale and there was another mahapursh (forgot his name) all together in form of panj and gave him amrit but he couldn't stand the jvala/tej/pratap of all bhramgyani karak mahapursh and intensity of amrit upon his request mahapursh all their lover pratap and tej gave him amrit then maharaja apologize to mahapursh then he was given updesh- people who regularly question panj pyare kamayi should also work on their own capacity to fathom the tej/partap of all five bhramgyani in form of panj preparing amrit and should work on capacity to take the intensity of amrit being prepared by bhramgyani mahapursh in form of panj..!!!!!

Great sakhi my brother ji. But I was wondering, what rehat would they have given the maharaaja if the mahapurkhs were from different jatheybandhis?

[N30S1NGH]

Not sure which rehat he was given. But I think it might be just basic sri akaal takth sahib rehat