Offensive video of prophet mohammad, what if it was our guru sahiban?

[proactive]

What people forget here is that the film is based on Islamic sources mostly the Hadiths. So why are Muslims protesting when the hadiths contain the same stories about Mohammed. The reason is that most Muslims don't know what is contained in the hadiths and so they are led by their religious leaders to believe that what the movie portrays are lies.

The thing that we need to consider is whether we have similar sakhis in our religion which can be used by anti-Sikh forces to portray the Gurus in a negative light?

[N30S1NGH]

The thing that we need to consider is whether we have similar sakhis in our religion which can be used by anti-Sikh forces to portray the Gurus in a negative light?

Good point, we have uggardanti in sri dasam granth sahib ji, if not read with caution or proper context- our right wing nut bars can hijack this composition for their ultra elitist motives with the attitude - oh i m just doing panthic seva or i was following bani ..!!

It be interesting to see where would our panth be next 200 years?

[dalsingh101]

The thing that we need to consider is whether we have similar sakhis in our religion which can be used by anti-Sikh forces to portray the Gurus in a negative light?<br />

You open up a whole Pandoras's box with that question.

Different things are acceptable within a community at different times in different socio-political contexts. For example we have a few references to Guru Nanak being a reincarnation of Raja Janak in some old manuscripts (something I don't personally believe in), and I'm pretty sure this statement (whatever its genesis) probably didn't bother a lot of simple, villager Sikhs in the 17th century, I think even Rattan Bhangu in his famous Panth Prakash (unedited version) refers to this so some people still believed this well into the 19th century - the point I'm trying to make is that this probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow for many Sikhs in the past. But look at what happens when we have a change in the socio-political scene due to being subjugated by the British after the Anglo-Sikh jungs....

People start arguing over this, people surreptitiously remove all references to this from published versions of manuscripts etc. etc. What was nothing before - becomes a beating stick later on.

Personally I believe that anyone with a bit of brains and mischievous/malicious intentions can make pseudo-intellectual attempts to throw mud on any faith system, if they are determined enough.

Arya Samaj already tried it on Sikhs ages ago.

We've already had attempts to malign our Gurus with deserting their wives and children. The possibility of dasmesh pita having more than one wife has been used. One guy in the 80s was saying that dasmesh pita was a 'fashionable' Guru. McLeod slyly puts out that some people say the Gurus weren't truly committed against casteism etc. etc.

If someone is thus inclined they could quite easily be offensive. Let me give you one clear example of misinterpreting a sakhi.

The sakhi where dasmesh pita ji orders a brother to be slapped about because he kept, repeatedly reciting Gurbani wrong (from parchian Sewa Das I think?) and Singhs going overboard and battering him senseless - you could easily get some j-erk to decontextualise that and try and suggest Guru ji was cruel.

Another dodgy one is people saying that it was unfair for Guru Har Rai to put Ram Rai in dangers way but sending him to Aurengzaab and not facing him himself.

Do you get my point? Sl@gging off someone's faith like this is the easiest thing in the world and NO two groups doesn't have practices or beliefs that the other would consider straight weird/backwards/bizarre.

We need to face this fact and learn to 'wipe the dirt off our shoulders' in the face of ignorance in a classy way.

Thing with sullay rioting is that they are big and committed enough to make it a serious issue, our lot trying this easily ends up looking like a small bunch of pendus throwing their toys out of their prams.

[Singh559]

Good point, we have uggardanti in sri dasam granth sahib ji, if not read with caution or proper context- our right wing nut bars can hijack this composition for their ultra elitist motives with the attitude - oh i m just doing panthic seva or i was following bani ..!!

It be interesting to see where would our panth be next 200 years?

Same thing with ultra hippies who deliberately try to paint Sikhs as hindus. People who misquote Sri Dasam Granth Sahib to support devi pooja when in reality Guru Sahib in Chandi Di Vaar says that many of these Devte came but none of them met Akal Purakh.

The only reason some people are able to get away with this is because as a collective we may not be well versed enough to put a stop to such lies right then and there.

[Sherdil]

^^^

It's not about hate.

I admire the US for MANY things.

My criticisms are NOT hate.

You guys blind loyalty thing is plain unhealthy. Fix up.

Ain't no blind loyalty buddy. We know our country isn't perfect, but neither is yours. Bush and his boys lied to us about Iraq. We know that now, and that is why Bush will go down as one of the worst presidents in U.S. history.

If we intervene in the world, then people call us meddlers.

If we sit back, then people say we don't care.

We lose either way.

It ain't wrong to protect our self-interests. Every other country does the same thing.

America is still the strongest country in the world. I'm not boasting, but it's the truth. As top dog, we have to play a leadership role. Before us, it was the British, then before them was the Romans. All equally hated by less fortunate peoples I'm sure.

@Singh559: How is the U.S. military racist? Cuz they nicknamed the operation Geronimo? It's just cuz they thought the name sounded cool. Lol. That doesn't mean they hate Native Americans man.

Yeah, fighting terrorism since 1492. America wasn't a country till the late 1700's. So the natives were fighting Brits, Spanish, and French.

I didn't watch the whole clip. It's an hour long. I watched the rules of engagement part.

Innocent people get killed in war. I not being insensitive, but that's the fact. Especially now, when the insurgents are using women and children as suicide bombers. They dress up like civilians and hide behind them, cuz they know we will be less hesitant about firing back if innocents are around.

That's why it's so hard to tell civilian from militant. The same thing happened in Vietnam. If you guys think Americans are just trigger-happy rednecks that enjoy shooting people, then you guys are the ones that are brainwashed. Most soldiers enlist to pay-off student loans, or receive training for future civilian careers. You guys are watching too many movies.

[Singh559]

Sherdil the first biological warfare weapon was blankets. Blankets infected with smallpox given to Native Americans by settlers. To name the biggest criminal in history geronimo is an insult and taking feces and throwing it on the history of the Native Americans. Ask any Native American this and many Native American rights activists are deeply hurt by the naming of the operation.

The largest genocide recorded is 100,000,000 Native Americans and yet no one talks about it today, why is that? OH BECAUSE IT'S ANTI AMERICAN yada yada yada.

Don't be a sheep and eat up what you're told because no matter how much you try to be like the gore who believe this, you'll never be them so be proud of who you are and don't fall for propaganda. No matter how proud you say you are to be an American, no matter how much you "support the troops" and no matter how many excuses you come up to justify manifest destiny that the corporate world use to brainwash the masses the white man will still see you (and me) as an inbred backwards monkey who is beyond saving.

If you can't watch the entire war veterans hearing, it shows that you have no credibility to say "we just believe movies or watch too many movies". The soldiers clearly admit to killing civilians just for the hell of it, clearly you didn't get too far into the video.

The only way to start those wars that Bush started was to make sure the attack on the USA happened and create terrorists.

Have you fought in Iraq/Afghanistan or any of that? What if I told you there's an now American Singh who was a marine who is as anti-war as it gets and basically agrees with all that I've posted?

~~

Do you want to know how I know you have a problem in this particular case? It's because when they presented the inconvenient truths about us, you attacked their country. That's blind nationalism and it means you felt threatened enough to justify what was said and then proceed to attack them. You were under the impression they're trying to say they're better than you.

[ThunderousDominator]

Azizabad Airstrike - Around 90 Killed

Granai Massacre - 145 Killed

Shinwar Shooting - 20 Killed

Hyderabad Airstrike - 100+ Killed

Deh Bala Wedding Party bombing - 47 Killed

Dasht-i-Leili Massacre - 250-300 Prisoners of War massacred

Sangin Airstrike - 40+ Killed

Kandahar Massacre - 17 Killed

Uzbin Valley Ambush retaliation shelling - +40 Killed, 2000+ refugees

Also dont forget all the brutal dictators the us has allied itself with and protected over the decades and all the civillians killed by us drone strikes in pakistan and yemen

and if you wanna go back further then that we can talk about hiroshima and nagasaki,slavery and the largest genocide in the world which was of the native americans

sherdill if you were alive in the 1850s would you have said"yeah well the british are the strongest empire in the world they have to play the leadership role it was someone else before them and it will be someone else after"

[Singh559]

The Muslim world isn't innocent by any means in terms of corrupt leaders and genocide on their account, but it's our duty to look at history and all with a non-biased lens so we can see the truth for what it's worth.

[Sherdil]

Sherdil the first biological warfare weapon was blankets. Blankets infected with smallpox given to Native Americans by settlers. To name the biggest criminal in history geronimo is an insult and taking feces and throwing it on the history of the Native Americans. Ask any Native American this and many Native American rights activists are deeply hurt by the naming of the operation.

The largest genocide recorded is 100,000,000 Native Americans and yet no one talks about it today, why is that? OH BECAUSE IT'S ANTI AMERICAN yada yada yada.

Don't be a sheep and eat up what you're told because no matter how much you try to be like the gore who believe this, you'll never be them so be proud of who you are and don't fall for propaganda. No matter how proud you say you are to be an American, no matter how much you "support the troops" and no matter how many excuses you come up to justify manifest destiny that the corporate world use to brainwash the masses the white man will still see you (and me) as an inbred backwards monkey who is beyond saving.

If you can't watch the entire war veterans hearing, it shows that you have no credibility to say "we just believe movies or watch too many movies". The soldiers clearly admit to killing civilians just for the hell of it, clearly you didn't get too far into the video.

The only way to start those wars that Bush started was to make sure the attack on the USA happened and create terrorists.

Have you fought in Iraq/Afghanistan or any of that? What if I told you there's an now American Singh who was a marine who is as anti-war as it gets and basically agrees with all that I've posted?

~~

Do you want to know how I know you have a problem? It's because when they presented the inconvenient truths about us, you attacked their country. That's blind nationalism and it means you felt threatened enough to justify what was said and then proceed to attack them. You were under the impression they're trying to say they're better than you.

Yikes!

Small Pox blankets?? If anybody gave the Natives small-pox it was European colonizers. Not Americans. It started with Columbus, who was an Italian working for Spain.

If you don't to listen to me, then here you go:

http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/amherst/lord_jeff.html

100,000,000 Natives killed over how many hundreds of years ago? By the way I'm quoting your figure.

You want people living today to answer for what people did over 500 years ago?

Then the Brits have a lot of apologizing to do, seeing how they got filthy rich off of the exploitation of people around the world. We are still trying to clean up the mess they left behind.

Sheesh, assume too much don't you? In schools, we were taught that manifest destiny was a bad thing. Just like how the Europeans used the excuse of the White Man's Burden to civilize the "savages" of the world. I'm not trying to be a gorah, but atleast I can see a foot in front of my nose. You sound like kaaleh who criticize their own for getting an education and acting proper, saying that the white-man will never accept them. Get real.

I didn't watch the movie cuz I don't have an hour to waste. Just writing out this reply is taking valuable time out of my day. I have things to do. I don't watch cartoons on Sunday morning.

War is hell. This isn't colonial times, where the armies line up across from each other and take turns reloading and firing. Today's enemies dress like civilians, and hide amongst them. You don't know who is an enemy and who isn't. It messes up your head. You stop acting nice and start shooting at the first sign that something may be wrong. Better be safe than sorry, cuz you are in survival mode. You feel like everyone who is not in a US uniform hates you and is trying to get you, so you develop a mentality like screw them all. You haven't been in war either so stop quoting some guy you know and acting like you're an expert.

Your last bit is confusing as hell. I didn't attack anyone. Calm down.

[dalsingh101]

Look we are going off topic here, maybe need to start another thread.

Personally I'm against all imperialism, whether Brit, US, China or another one else.

Can we get back onto malicious portrayals of our Gurus/faith??