connection between Jesus in the Bible and Guru Nanaak

[Sherdil]

2. Take secularized religion out of you're mind and focus on how God wants us to act this is the true religion, the ancient religion...and I wouldn't even classify it as religion, but way of life...but what is that? How does God want us to act? And who do we ltrust to portray that message to us...this is the basic question. This is the true Islam (submission to the one God)

God doesn't want anything from us. He already has everything.

Sikhs believe in something called Hukam. It's the natural order of the universe. Nothing is outside this natural law. It binds everything together. Think of it like a physics equation for everything. This is what we consider to be His will. A goal of a Sikh is to awaken himself/herself to this natural order.

[curioustoknow]

God doesn't want anything from us. He already has everything.

Sikhs believe in something called Hukam. It's the natural order of the universe. Nothing is outside this natural law. It binds everything together. Think of it like a physics equation for everything. This is what we consider to be His will. A goal of a Sikh is to awaken himself/herself to this natural order.

How can you say Good doesn't want anything from us and them turn around sat this is what Good wants from us? If Good doesn't want anything from us why did he create us? What is the purpose of life to a sikh? Just existence? Then why should we strive to be good ? Doesn't God want us to be happy? isn't that something God wants?

[Mehtab Singh]

First, let me give you the definition of a Muslim according to Guru Sahib...

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ Shalok, First Mehl:

ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥ Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.

ਸਰਮ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਰੋਜਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ॥ Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.

ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਬਾ ਸਚੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਕਲਮਾ ਕਰਮ ਨਿਵਾਜ ॥ Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.

ਤਸਬੀ ਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਸੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਖੈ ਲਾਜ ॥੧॥ Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. ||1||

ਮਃ ੧ ॥ First Mehl

ਹਕੁ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਉਸੁ ਸੂਅਰ ਉਸੁ ਗਾਇ ॥ : To take what rightfully belongs to another, is like a Muslim eating pork, or a Hindu eating beef.

ਗੁਰੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਹਾਮਾ ਤਾ ਭਰੇ ਜਾ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ ਨ ਖਾਇ ॥ Our Guru, our Spiritual Guide, stands by us, if we do not eat those carcasses.

ਗਲੀ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਈਐ ਛੁਟੈ ਸਚੁ ਕਮਾਇ ॥ By mere talk, people do not earn passage to Heaven. Salvation comes only from the practice of Truth.

ਮਾਰਣ ਪਾਹਿ ਹਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗਲੀ ਕੂੜੀਈ ਕੂੜੋ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥ O Nanak, from false talk, only falsehood is obtained. ||2||

ਮਃ ੧ ॥ First Mehl:

ਪੰਜਿ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਵਖਤ ਪੰਜਿ ਪੰਜਾ ਪੰਜੇ ਨਾਉ ॥ There are five prayers and five times of day for prayer; the five have five names.

ਪਹਿਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਹਲਾਲ ਦੁਇ ਤੀਜਾ ਖੈਰ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥ Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God.

ਚਉਥੀ ਨੀਅਤਿ ਰਾਸਿ ਮਨੁ ਪੰਜਵੀ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਸਨਾਇ ॥ Let the fourth be good will to all, and the fifth the praise of the Lord.

ਕਰਣੀ ਕਲਮਾ ਆਖਿ ਕੈ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਸਦਾਇ ॥ Repeat the prayer of good deeds, and then, you may call yourself a Muslim.

ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇਤੇ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ਕੂੜੈ ਕੂੜੀ ਪਾਇ ॥੩॥ O Nanak, the false obtain falsehood, and only falsehood. ||3||

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ Shalok, First Mehl:

ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.

ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.

ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.

ਰਬ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ਮੰਨੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥ As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.

ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim. ||1||

Take secularized religion out of you're mind and focus on how God wants us to act this is the true religion, the ancient religion...and I wouldn't even classify it as religion, but way of life...but what is that? How does God want us to act? And who do we ltrust to portray that message to us...this is the basic question. This is the true Islam (submission to the one God)

ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟ ਧਰਮੁ ॥ Of all religions, the best religion

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਕਰਮੁ ॥ is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.

ਸਗਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਮਹਿ ਊਤਮ ਕਿਰਿਆ ॥ Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਲੁ ਹਿਰਿਆ ॥ is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy.

ਸਗਲ ਉਦਮ ਮਹਿ ਉਦਮੁ ਭਲਾ ॥ Of all efforts, the best effort

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਜੀਅ ਸਦਾ ॥ is to chant the Name of the Lord in the heart, forever.

ਸਗਲ ਬਾਨੀ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਨੀ ॥ Of all speech, the most ambrosial speech

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਜਸੁ ਸੁਨਿ ਰਸਨ ਬਖਾਨੀ ॥ is to hear the Lord's Praise and chant it with the tongue.

ਸਗਲ ਥਾਨ ਤੇ ਓਹੁ ਊਤਮ ਥਾਨੁ ॥ Of all places, the most sublime place,

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੮॥੩॥ O Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Lord abides. ||8||3||

This is what I want to know...how do you explain to me the ideology of sikhism?

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥ This human body has been given to you.

ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe.

ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥ Nothing else will work.

ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥ Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. ||1||

ਸਰੰਜਾਮਿ ਲਾਗੁ ਭਵਜਲ ਤਰਨ ਕੈ ॥ Make every effort to cross over this terrifying world-ocean.

ਜਨਮੁ ਬ੍ਰਿਥਾ ਜਾਤ ਰੰਗਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ You are squandering this life uselessly in the love of Maya. ||1||Pause||

ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ I have not practiced meditation, self-discipline, self-restraint or righteous living.

ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ I have not served the Holy; I have not acknowledged the Lord, my King.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥ Says Nanak, my actions are contemptible!

ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਮਾ ॥੨॥੪॥ O Lord, I seek Your Sanctuary; please, preserve my honor! ||2||4||

How can you say Good doesn't want anything from us and them turn around sat this is what Good wants from us? If Good doesn't want anything from us why did he create us? What is the purpose of life to a sikh? Just existence? Then why should we strive to be good ? Doesn't God want us to be happy? isn't that something God wants?

ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਨਾਇ ਭਾਖਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥ True is the Master, True is His Name-speak it with infinite love.

ਆਖਹਿ ਮੰਗਹਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਦਾਤਾਰੁ ॥ People beg and pray, "Give to us, give to us", and the Great Giver gives His Gifts.

ਫੇਰਿ ਕਿ ਅਗੈ ਰਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਦਿਸੈ ਦਰਬਾਰੁ ॥ So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court?

ਮੁਹੌ ਕਿ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੁਣਿ ਧਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ What words can we speak to evoke His Love?

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਉ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ In the Amrit Vaylaa, the ambrosial hours before dawn, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness.

ਕਰਮੀ ਆਵੈ ਕਪੜਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥ By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found.

ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵੈ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ॥੪॥ O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. ||4||

[Sherdil]

How can you say Good doesn't want anything from us and them turn around sat this is what Good wants from us? If Good doesn't want anything from us why did he create us? What is the purpose of life to a sikh? Just existence? Then why should we strive to be good ? Doesn't God want us to be happy? isn't that something God wants?

I never said what God wants. I merely touched on the natural order.

God made everything because he wanted to. Blunt. We don't know why we exist.

The purpose of life to a Sikh is to break the false illusion and awaken one's mind to the Supreme.

We strive to be good because we believe it is the right thing to do. We don't do it to please God, so he will reward us in some way. That is a selfish motive.

In another post you said God doesn't want anything. Now you say God wants us to be happy. How do we know what makes God happy? With what mouth and with what voice did he reveal what makes him happy?

[curioustoknow]

God doesn't NEED anything from us, but he does want things from us, our else he wouldn't have created us

[Mehtab Singh]

gobi(n)dh bhaao bhagath dhaa bhukhaa

The Lord needs loving Devotion and nothing else.

[Sherdil]

God doesn't NEED anything from us, but he does want things from us, our else he wouldn't have created us

Then tell us what you think He wants.

[Sherdil]

gobi(n)dh bhaao bhagath dhaa bhukhaa

The Lord needs loving Devotion and nothing else.

Indeed, only those who love him will find him.

[curioustoknow]

gobi(n)dh bhaao bhagath dhaa bhukhaa

The Lord needs loving Devotion and nothing else.

THIS is what he wants...I mean why so many contradictions? God doesn't want anything, but God wants devotion...God doesn't want anything, but he gives us gifts so we can be happy...thus tells me God wants us to be happy...you don't know the purpose of why he created us, but purpose is to serve Him...do you see why I am confused?

God cannot be a man or have physical form yet the Gurus were God.

The gurus encouraged people to worship them, but said people would go to hell if they

The physical body of the Guru wasn't worshipped but the Guru was

Guru Nanaak wasn't born, but he was born

Nothing is or does without the will if God but God has no will

Nobody does anything without the will if God Burr Guru Nanaak alone performed miracles

Miracles do not exist, but Guru Nanaak preformed miracles

I don't understand what you guys are trying to tell me...and stop bringing Islam into this...this isn't about Islam this is about sikhism.

[Singh559]

THIS is what he wants...I mean why so many contradictions? God doesn't want anything, but God wants devotion...God doesn't want anything, but he gives us gifts so we can be happy...thus tells me God wants us to be happy...you don't know the purpose of why he created us, but purpose is to serve Him...do you see why I am confused?

God cannot be a man or have physical form yet the Gurus were God.

The gurus encouraged people to worship them, but said people would go to hell if they

The physical body of the Guru wasn't worshipped but the Guru was

Guru Nanaak wasn't born, but he was born

Nothing is or does without the will if God but God has no will

Nobody does anything without the will if God Burr Guru Nanaak alone performed miracles

Miracles do not exist, but Guru Nanaak preformed miracles

I don't understand what you guys are trying to tell me...and stop bringing Islam into this...this isn't about Islam this is about sikhism.

It's similar to Christians who say "Jesus is God" when in reality Jesus had said that he was the son of God.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji never said he was God, but what he was was the Avtaar of Akaal Purakh.

In Sikhi our ultimate goal is to become one with Waheguru - merge back into Waheguru after we die. Prior to the creation of the Universe there was nothing at all only the Hukam (infinite command) of Waheguru according to Guru Sahib. In this state prior to anything being created there was no concept of love, hate, bliss, pain, pleasure, live, death, no truth. The creation of the Universe created both falsehood and the truth. Prior to the creation of the Universe truth had no value and in order to put value on Truth you must experience false hood. Kalyug is the false age where many people are trapped in worldly illusion and forget spiritual meditation on Waheguru.

As for the contradictions, you can't base opinions of people to reflect Sikhi. Although it would be nice, people posting on this website aren't automatically class A Sikhs. Many amazing Sikhs prefer not to post here, but here and there you get a diamond in the rough. The mods and admins probably have a dilemma as to whether some posts should be allowed and whether some shouldn't.

God cannot be a man or have physical form yet the Gurus were God.

God can not be confined to anyone, Guru Nanak Dev Ji says in Jap Ji Sahib that God can not be described, it is impossible. Guru is one with Waheguru/Universe/Allah/Ram/Rahim as they are the Avtaar of Waheguru. Gurus never claimed to be Gods.

The gurus encouraged people to worship them, but said people would go to hell if they

Guru Sahib never encouraged people to worship them or even follow Sikhi - they preached the truth and said to only worship the truth. The Shabad (the word of Guru Sahib) is worshiped by following and action

The physical body of the Guru wasn't worshipped but the Guru was

This isn't contradictory. The Guru was given respect and the teachings are respected and worshipped. The bowing down of the head in front of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is humbly lowering your head to the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib and surrendering your own buddhi (knowledge) and adopting Gurmat Gian (knowledge of Gurbani - the Guru's word)

Guru Nanaak wasn't born, but he was born

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born physically obviously, some people say otherwise which is false. What is different is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was Avtaar of Akaal Purakh.

Nothing is or does without the will if God but God has no will

God's will is the nature of the Universe. There is what we can see and there is something that has to be seen through meditation and opening the third eye (Dasvan Dwar).

This Shabad is by Bhagat Ravi Daas Ji in Siree Raag on Pannaa 93 sireeraag ||

thohee mohee mohee thohee a(n)thar kaisaa ||

kanak kattik jal thara(n)g jaisaa ||1||

jo pai ham n paap kara(n)thaa ahae ana(n)thaa ||

pathith paavan naam kaisae hu(n)thaa ||1|| rehaao ||

thumh j naaeik aashhahu a(n)tharajaamee ||

prabh thae jan jaaneejai jan thae suaamee ||2||

sareer aaraadhhai mo ko beechaar dhaehoo ||

ravidhaas sam dhal samajhaavai kooo ||3||

Sree Raag:

You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us?

We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1||

If I did not commit any sins, O Infinite Lord,

how would You have acquired the name, 'Redeemer of sinners'? ||1||Pause||

You are my Master, the Inner-knower, Searcher of hearts.

The servant is known by his God, and the Lord and Master is known by His servant. ||2||

Grant me the wisdom to worship and adore You with my body.

O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is very rare. ||3||

Nobody does anything without the will if God Burr Guru Nanaak alone performed miracles

The will of Waheguru is infinite - he resides in each being (the light of Waheguru) resides in all beings

Miracles do not exist, but Guru Nanaak preformed miracles

Someone who gets higher states of meditation get spiritual powers, but a Sikh does not show it. Guru Nanak Dev Ji had miraculous powers, but for a Sikh the miracle is living as a true GurSikh and helping humanity.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji says:

isDu hovw isiD lweI iriD AwKw Awau ] sidhh hovaa sidhh laaee ridhh aakhaa aao || If I were to become a Siddha, and work miracles, summon wealth gupqu prgtu hoie bYsw loku rwKY Bwau ] gupath paragatt hoe baisaa lok raakhai bhaao || and become invisible and visible at will, so that people would hold me in awe mqu dyiK BUlw vIsrY qyrw iciq n AwvY nwau ]3] math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||3|| -seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||3||

isD smwDI AMqir jwcih iriD isiD jwic krih jYkwr ] sidhh samaadhhee a(n)thar jaachehi ridhh sidhh jaach karehi jaikaar || The Siddhas in Samaadhi beg for wealth and miracles, and proclaim His victory. jYsI ipAws hoie mn AMqir qYso jlu dyvih prkwr ]6] jaisee piaas hoe man a(n)thar thaiso jal dhaevehi parakaar ||6|| As is the thirst within their minds, so is the water which You give to them. ||6|| bfy Bwg guru syvih Apunw Bydu nwhI gurdyv murwr ] baddae bhaag gur saevehi apunaa bhaedh naahee guradhaev muraar || The most fortunate ones serve their Guru; there is no difference between the Divine Guru and the Lord. qw kau kwlu nwhI jmu johY bUJih AMqir sbdu bIcwr ]7] thaa ko kaal naahee jam johai boojhehi a(n)thar sabadh beechaar ||7|| The Messenger of Death cannot see those who come to realize within their minds the contemplative meditation of the Word of the Shabad. ||7||