Prachin Panth Prakash.

[13Mirch 1,151]

Just found this passage in a version of Bhangu's Prachin Panth Prakash, obtained from the net. Can anyone please clarify on this?

Writing about the happening at Machhiwara

(‘… accepted after purifying with the all steel dagger)

"Quatrain: When the True Guru went further, he reached near Machhiwara. After settling the True Guru, the Pathan went and brought along Gulaba the Khatri.1

Couplet: Listen to the story of Machhiwara of how the Guru stayed at the house of a Khattri and of how the Sayyad Pathans served him by carrying him on their heads.2

Quatrain: He served some food. The Guru ate while remembering (God). At sunset he brought him inside. The mansion became his abode.3 One or two Singhs walked to the place. The Guru ordered them to conceal themselves. One day the Guru ordered a goat. He had it slaughtered by the Singhs. As the True Guru ate meat, bones were thrown into the house of the Turk. On seeing the bones the Turk remonstrated and abused the Khattri, ‘you throw bones into my house!’5

Couplet: Then the Khattri approached the True Guru saying, ‘ I am an extremely weak person. I will be killed should the Turk comes to know.’6

Quatrain: The True Guru threw money. The Qazi took the bribe and kept quiet. Like this the Guru stayed here for ten days and then desired to march on.7"

Did the Guru really eat meat? Whose this Khatri Bhangu speaks off and I have never heard of maharaj bribing a Qazi.

[singhgsingh 106]

It is obviously not true. All Historical granths need to be tested with Gurbani. Gurbani clearly tells us eating meat is wrong.

[PAL 07 210]

Sooraj Prakash also states Dasam Pita ate meat and consumed opuim, and the anti rag mala brigade are quick to state that Kavi Santokh Singh rejects Rag Mala and he was a great historian. So what they gotta say about this.

[13Mirch 1,151]

But whats the truth?

[Unbreakable 7]

Sooraj Prakash also states Dasam Pita ate meat and consumed opuim, and the anti rag mala brigade are quick to state that Kavi Santokh Singh rejects Rag Mala and he was a great historian. So what they gotta say about this.

Who is Kavi Santokh Singh? Do you know anything about his background, how he did his research, etc? I read that during his research, he found a bunch of books/papers at his doorstep which contained material of the gurus lives.

[PAL 07 210]

are you sure your citation from PPP is correct....it seems like the parsang of Ghanni Khan and Nabhi Khan and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee enacting as an Uch Da Pir after machiwara......Here meat was offered by muslims as halaal meat and Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh jee turned it into Pancha Amrit Karah Parshad. At machiwarra Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji offered coins to a man to stop him from exposing the Guru to the evil regime. Guru Sahib eventually did chatka stroke with his shamsheer sword and killed him.

PPP has got a lot of mistakes in it like Singh's drinking tons of sukh nidaan

[13Mirch 1,151]

are you sure your citation from PPP is correct....it seems like the parsang of Ghanni Khan and Nabhi Khan and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee enacting as an Uch Da Pir after machiwara......Here meat was offered by muslims as halaal meat and Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh jee turned it into Pancha Amrit Karah Parshad. At machiwarra Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji offered coins to a man to stop him from exposing the Guru to the evil regime. Guru Sahib eventually did chatka stroke with his shamsheer sword and killed him.

PPP has got a lot of mistakes in it like Singh's drinking tons of sukh nidaan

Can you provide the whole narrative minus sukh nidhan drinking please. I am putting it on a fb page which I run and this break in posting really is irking me.

Who is Kavi Santokh Singh? Do you know anything about his background, how he did his research, etc? I read that during his research, he found a bunch of books/papers at his doorstep which contained material of the gurus lives.

According to him Guru Gobind Singh Ji came to him in disguise of a Sikh. Stayed the night at his place and left in the morning. They left a bag. When opened the bag contained sources regarding maharaj's life. He (Kavi Ji) had finished Nanak Prakash Granth and Suraj Prakash. He only needed confirmation on a few aspects of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's earthly sojourn. The material in the bag provided it.

[singhdhillon 41]

where i living, the machhiwara place is near from my hause. the history of machhiwara is that guru sahib came machhiwara after jhar sahib, when guru ji came machhiwara guru stay in bagh, guru ji drink the water and the maan singh and dya singh were also found the guru there,

[Unbreakable 7]

Can you provide the whole narrative minus sukh nidhan drinking please. I am putting it on a fb page which I run and this break in posting really is irking me.

According to him Guru Gobind Singh Ji came to him in disguise of a Sikh. Stayed the night at his place and left in the morning. They left a bag. When opened the bag contained sources regarding maharaj's life. He (Kavi Ji) had finished Nanak Prakash Granth and Suraj Prakash. He only needed confirmation on a few aspects of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's earthly sojourn. The material in the bag provided it.

I just don't buy that story I'm afraid. I have not read Suraj Granth, however I will do in the near future, only to understand what is written, who wrote it and why.

We must not take literature at face value. Sikhi has had and still has a turbulant history, most of our accounts are written by non-sikhs and even then some of them are biased, etc..

What I don't get is, how could Kalgidhar Mahabali Siri SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj come to him when he wasn't on this earth in his physical form, he left us in 1708 and Bhai Santok Singh wasn't even born until 1787.

I think he was educated by the Nirmala order.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_Gobind_Singh

http://www.<banned site filter activated>/writers/KaviSantokhSg/KaviSantokh/SantokhSingh.htm

This is a excerpt from the above link

The greatest work of Kavi Ji is the Suraj Parkash or Gur Partap Suraj, which is a complete history of the ten Gurus. An interesting event occurred when he had finished writing about the nine Gurus. He was unable to proceed further regarding the tenth Guru. Even after considerable research some of the anecdotes and stories of the tenth Guru could not be confirmed. Eventually Kavi Ji went into a deep meditation and prayed to the Guru for divine help. This divine help came in the form of a Sikh, who came to visit him and stayed at his residence. The next morning the Sikh was not found anywhere but a bag was left behind, which when opened contained all the material required by Kavi Ji for the completion of the Granth. Kavi Ji was very much overcome by this miracle, as he writes, "Bhayo Achanak Sanchey Ayi, Sarab Guran ko jas samudai." Kavi Ji was sure that this was a boon from Guru Gobind Singh Himself, to help him complete this gigantic task.

[Singh559 2,623]

Priceless.

[luckysingh99 1,178]

But whats the truth?

We can't just believe what we want to believe !!

We should read and study as many historical texts as we can before making up our own mind.

We should take it in and then move forward, rather than rejecting what we don't agree with at the first instance.

There are many other accounts of meat eating and mahaprashaad,besides jhatka is done openly at hazoor sahib. I don't think it's wise to go into them now due to forum guidelines.

As for the opium, well this is one of the oldest painkillers and still is today. Warriors in the jungle using raw opium to alleviate extreme pain symptoms is NOT drug abuse or recreational 'doddha' use is it ??

Gurmat does not say anything about medicines or to abstain from using, but it instructs us not to play with mind altering chemicals which is simple abuse.

Study as many historical texts as possible and then put the information in line with gurmat from SGGS. Then make up your mind.

[luckysingh99 1,178]

According to him Guru Gobind Singh Ji came to him in disguise of a Sikh. Stayed the night at his place and left in the morning. They left a bag. When opened the bag contained sources regarding maharaj's life. He (Kavi Ji) had finished Nanak Prakash Granth and Suraj Prakash. He only needed confirmation on a few aspects of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's earthly sojourn. The material in the bag provided it.

I'm not sure that he would have been considered a great historian as well as a scholar if this was true. He would simply be someone who got lucky by finding such bag and that would help conclude his research !!

I don't think so and find it hard to believe because researchers do not go bywhat they find in a bag !!!!

Anyway, these accounts in PPP for Banda Bahadur and Guru Gobind Singh ji..etc.etc... have been put together from many persian, mughal and sikh sources. I woudl assume that we are getting the majority of information in good faith and accuracy in his sense.

Edited November 21, 2012 by luckysingh99

[akalinihang96 23]

Rattan Singh Bhangu author of prachin panth Prakash was the grandson of Bhai mehtab Singh who with Sukha Singh beheaded Massa Ranger. A lot is written by Bhangu & Kavi Ji about Akali Nihang Singh maryada that the wider panth most likely will not accept or agree with. It is important to accept that the Akali Nihangs are a distinct military order created to serve & protect Dharam & thier maryada is not the same as a civilian Sikhs because they carry out a different function.

In those days not every Singh became Shaheed. Some suffered injuries such as cut of arms or legs and unlike today did not have hospitals where they would be administered pain killers such as morphine etc. Opium & Sukha are natural products derived from nature & are excellent pain killers hence there use. From my knowledge the fauj use to carry with them haldi, salt, neem & sukha to help clean & heal wounds. Mahaprashad was initiated by Guru Hargobind Sahib at Akal Bunga when the Akal Sena was formed & thier warfare training started.

Edited November 21, 2012 by akalinihang96

[Guest dasguruka]

Not true. Rubbish. Incorrect. False.

[Singh123456777 1,381]

Rattan Singh Bhangu author of prachin panth Prakash was the grandson of Bhai mehtab Singh who with Sukha Singh beheaded Massa Ranger. A lot is written by Bhangu & Kavi Ji about Akali Nihang Singh maryada that the wider panth most likely will not accept or agree with. It is important to accept that the Akali Nihangs are a distinct military order created to serve & protect Dharam & thier maryada is not the same as a civilian Sikhs because they carry out a different function.

In those days not every Singh became Shaheed. Some suffered injuries such as cut of arms or legs and unlike today did not have hospitals where they would be administered pain killers such as morphine etc. Opium & Sukha are natural products derived from nature & are excellent pain killers hence there use. From my knowledge the fauj use to carry with them haldi, salt, neem & sukha to help clean & heal wounds. Mahaprashad was initiated by Guru Hargobind Sahib at Akal Bunga when the Akal Sena was formed & thier warfare training started.

Nihangs are not a distinct order.They are the same as the Khalsa and took khande di pahul amrit like every other Amritdhari.I love Nihangs from the bottom of My heart but they are no different than me or you.