Pantheism

[TheFancyBanana]

Is Sikhi a pantheistic religion?

In other words is Waheguru all? Is the Universe and God the same thing?

[SunSingh]

not quite. the universe is created and destroyed, but waheguru is always there, and has never been created nor will ever be destroyed. that being said, God does exist in all spaces (within matter) and all space (where there is no matter).

[TheFancyBanana]

not quite. the universe is created and destroyed, but waheguru is always there, and has never been created nor will ever be destroyed. that being said, God does exist in all spaces (within matter) and all space (where there is no matter).

So, there are still elements of pantheism in Sikhi. When Guru Nanak Ji was at Mecca the people told him to move his feet away from Mecca becuase God lives there. But Guru Nanak said "move my feet to a place where there is no God".

[MrDoaba]

Have a read about Sargun-Nirgun, it makes it easier to understand things. I dont think you can put Sikhi into any one of these categories entirely. Have a read about Panetheism as well.

Sikhi should be its own category, thats how unique and amazing it is! :smile2:

[TheFancyBanana]

Have a read about Sargun-Nirgun.

I don't get it. :s Do you think you could explain it to me?

What do you guys think about this?

Scientists talk about dark matter. This thing they no nothing about, they can't feel it, touch it, or see it. But its there. Maybe it could be another form of God. Like manifesting itself. I don't know. :\

[luckysingh99]

Is Sikhi a pantheistic religion?

In other words is Waheguru all? Is the Universe and God the same thing?

Good question.

In theory sikhism is actually Panentheistic and not pantheistic.

While pantheism means all things are identical to God, panentheism means God is in all things, neither identical to, nor totally separate from all things...ie, Has no limitations as per mool mantar.

Have a read of this from the 'new world encyclopedia'

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/God#Sikhism

Sikhism

Sikhism arose in the Punjab region of north-western India during the 15th century C.E. This vibrant religion embodied a theology of monotheism, asserting that God is essentially One (Ek Onkar). Numerous passages within the Guru Granth Sahib (the Sikh holy book) reiterate the importance of this idea, including the very first stanza, known as the Mool Mantra. It reads: "One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth (...) Self-Existent." The Sikhs reject any division of God, including the notion that God can produce avatars or human incarnations.

Generally, God is described by Sikhs as the creator of the universe, singular, supreme, timeless, omnipresent, and perfectly moral. Sikhs claim that God's very essence is unchanging Truth (Sat Namm). In addition, God is also described in seemingly anthropomorphic terms, such as in the aforementioned Mool Mantra, which describes God as "Creative Being Personified." Although Sikhs, like Muslims, bestow many names upon God in order to describe His various traits, they most commonly refer to God as Wahiguru.

Sikhism also features elements of pantheism or panentheism. Stories attributed to Guru Nanak suggest that he believed god to be everywhere in the physical world as in pantheism. Similarly, the Sikh tradition typically describes God as the preservative force within the physical world, present in all material forms. Each of these worldly forms was created as a manifestation of God. These ideas, taken together with the prevalent Sikh belief that God is the transcendent creator who exists independent of the world, could be interpreted to suggest that Sikhism is panentheistic.

Interestingly there is also something called 'COSMOTHEISM' which in theory is more closer to sikhism since it asserts that God is above the cosmos, again the mool mantar and gurbani enforces this quite well. This is a little different because in other cases God can be expressed as a 'principle' or concept, but Gurbani pushes that he is above and beyond the cosmos and not some concept or principle. The real problem with 'Cosmotheism' in practice rather than theory is that it seems to belong to a group or cult of white new age travellers, a little like the hippies that Yogi Bahajan converted to sikhs. Their beliefs and theory are all based on a universal God very similar to sikhism.

Therefore, bottom line conclusion is that Sikhism is Panentheistic.

[N30S1NGH]

Sikhi is not raw pantheism, nor its raw Panentheistic. nor its raw advaita philopshpy by adi sankarcharaya nor its raw vaishavat philopshy..the key word here is - it cannot be raw one thing. In Sikhi, everything listed above are all blended together as sikhi connects to human consciousness at each state- while being focused on nirgun paratma which is supreme consciousness/self aware.

If one wishes to read sikh theology/stance read- bhai gurdas ji varan but importantly read/contemplate/ go in depth of mool mantra/jaap sahib and 21st ashatpadi of sukhmani sahib, where guru maharaj while acknowledging maya sargun,hell/heaven,shud satogun maya- avtars, sargun maya shakti- shiv shakat, pantheism, panentheism existence even shabd/naam cease to exist, maharaj is giving ishara to sikhs that everything diminishes/ultimate cease to exit- as it talks about five types of parlo/destruction of everything- sargun and only thing remains is nirgun, four types of parloa/destruction are physical multiverse/universe destruction folding back into nirgun vahiguroo - nature taking its course but the fifth one is worth looking deeply- fifth one is most important as it relates with human consciousness fifth parloa is gyan parlo or bhramgyan parlo where one's human consciousnesses totally fold itself into nirgun and merges itself in nirgun vahiguroo by loosing themselves- it could not be explained but i made lame attempt read my sig for more info or even better listen to sant gyani gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale gurbani katha of 21st asthapadi of sukhmani sahib...!!!

[TheFancyBanana]

So basically (tell me if I’m wrong) God is like separate from everything, but at the same time not separate. So all physical things will die (cease to exist), but the spirit of things won't?

[N30S1NGH]

So basically (tell me if I’m wrong) God is like separate from everything, but at the same time not separate.

Yes haanji, as jaap sahib says- Ek hai pher bhi anek hai

So all physical things will die (cease to exist), but the spirit of things won't?

Yes all physical things will die cease to exit, but not sure what you meant by spirit of things? please shed more light on this word- its interesting word.

[SunSingh]

When describing technology other languages often don't have the terminology for it and so words are imported from the English language. Similarly, when describing God, other dharms/languages sometimes don't have the deep concepts that Sikhi has, so sometimes* it's best to import Gurmat words into English. Referring to our concept of Waheguru as being both nirgun and sargun has a deeper meaning attached than using pantheistic and panentheistic, as those words don't seem to capture the full depth that is waheguru (although no words fully can, some are better than others).