Too expensive? Any point?

[AK-47]

Read the bit in Bold, thought that this statement was quite strange given the gurdwara in question!!

Gurudwaras gear up for disability law

An excerpt from:

Geoff Adams-Spink , BBC News

Tuesday, 21st September 2004

Places of worship will be obliged by new laws taking effect in UK next month to ensure that disabled people have reasonable access.

The recently-built Gurudwara Sri Guru Singh Sabha in Southall, West London, has an impressive catalogue of accessibility features. The main entrance is ramped and the internal lift is for the sole use of elderly and disabled people.

In an interview "When we construct a gurdwara, it's a tradition to keep the cost as low as possible," explained Ajit Singh, who shows visitors around the Gurudwara. "This is why we want able-bodied people to use the stairs whenever possible and the entrance to our lift is slightly concealed to deter everyone from using it."

It was also decided to abandon the use of the traditional Indian 'sardan' - a low barrier about one brick high which normally separates rooms - in order to provide a flat route throughout the temple.

The smaller of the two prayer halls is fitted with an induction loop, and this has been so successful that the vast, main prayer hall is now to be fitted with one. A ramp in the main prayer hall leads down to a sunken floor which contains a few chairs and space to accommodate wheelchairs.

"It's an idea that came from disabled people thems

elves," said Mr Singh. "They wanted to be able to sit at the same height as everyone else, so when you sit on a chair in this area you're actually at the level of the main floor where everyone else kneels."

Does anybody actually visit this gurdwara sahib, i know a singh from thier who said that most sangat still uses the other one (park avenue?) and hardly anyone uses this new one?

So now that its been open for a while, do you think the money however many millions it was, was well spent or wasted?

Ps i heard there was some super mosque being built in london too, with latest technology for teaching islam to students etc etc, what does our super gurdwara have which benefits the community?

[Deep Singh]

wasn't this Gurdwara opened by Baba Mann Pehowa....i believe he was invited at their opening ceremony as 'chief guest' or something....and they are still supporting him after the report on him in sanjh savera....is it the same guy? (or is it someone else.. <_< )

[Sehjo Kaur]

I know Baba Mann Singh has donated money to the Gurughar completion. I don't see the point of it really, the money could have been used in other useful places, for example to aid the school in the area for Sikhs, Guru Nanak Sikh School which is expanding due to demand for more places (1500 waiting list), and which by Guru Nanak's Kirpa has achieved 97% success in GCSE results. I know the school appealed to local Gurughar for help financially and so far no one has done anything, quite sad really.

[V]

Read the bit in Bold, thought that this statement was quite strange given the gurdwara in question!!

Gurudwaras gear up for disability law

An excerpt from:

Geoff Adams-Spink , BBC News

Tuesday, 21st September 2004

Places of worship will be obliged by new laws taking effect in UK next month to ensure that disabled people have reasonable access.

The recently-built Gurudwara Sri Guru Singh Sabha in Southall, West London, has an impressive catalogue of accessibility features. The main entrance is ramped and the internal lift is for the sole use of elderly and disabled people.

In an interview "When we construct a gurdwara, it's a tradition to keep the cost as low as possible," explained Ajit Singh, who shows visitors around the Gurudwara. "This is why we want able-bodied people to use the stairs whenever possible and the entrance to our lift is slightly concealed to deter everyone from using it."

It was also decided to abandon the use of the traditional Indian 'sardan' - a low barrier about one brick high which normally separates rooms - in order to provide a flat route throughout the temple.

The smaller of the two prayer halls is fitted with an induction loop, and this has been so successful that t

he vast, main prayer hall is now to be fitted with one. A ramp in the main prayer hall leads down to a sunken floor which contains a few chairs and space to accommodate wheelchairs.

"It's an idea that came from disabled people themselves," said Mr Singh. "They wanted to be able to sit at the same height as everyone else, so when you sit on a chair in this area you're actually at the level of the main floor where everyone else kneels."

Does anybody actually visit this gurdwara sahib, i know a singh from thier who said that most sangat still uses the other one (park avenue?) and hardly anyone uses this new one?

Depends, Personally been to both, and both have a lot of Sangat.

the hall is MASSIVEEEE, and yet when theres some 'mainstream' Ragi coming I.e BHai Niranjan SIngh ji etc, then the hall is FULL,

otherwise it has relatively little Sangat, but yeah there is Sangat,

and thers pretty much always some Ragi coming to do Kirtan..

So now that its been open for a while, do you think the money however many millions it was, was well spent or wasted?

Not reall yanswering the question- I tihnk it's sad tha they still have the thing with having several Saroop of Maharaj and several AKhnd paaths at the same time like the Park av one..

Ps i heard there was some super mosque being built in london too, with latest technology for teaching islam to students etc etc, what does our

super gurdwara have which benefits the community?

They've got a Library with all varieties of our 'Panjabi' magazines Des Pardes, Ajit, but also Sikh ones- didn't look too much

but they've got a Library wher eu can borrow books

sad thing is - it's a MASSIVE GURDWAR, but theres NOT 1 SINGLE room availble for pilgrimes, sangat from Abroud etc to stay for a few nights - NOTHING.

wasn't this Gurdwara opened by Baba Mann Pehowa....i believe he was invited at their opening ceremony as 'chief guest' or something....and they are still supporting him after the report on him in sanjh savera....is it the same guy? (or is it someone else..  )

no idea if they're still supporting him., and no i doubt he was the key person behidn the WHOle GURDWAR, but theres a gold-plated plate saying

'Sant baba Maan Singh' between all other gold plated names which have donated a lot of maya

this reminds me - there was someone who donated a few MILLION squid - and yet the name plate said 'GUPT' - now THAT's SIKHI!!!

But yeah the MOney coulda been spent more on Parfchar, but if u think about it, there's always some KAtha vachis there as well :T:

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest rsingh]

people stay at park avenue, they probly shut it soon as it was only temporary.

Park avenue is buzzing all the time sagat commin and going where as havelock road is empty.

I think 1 reson is the location, park avenue is next to high street shops, etc and is more convinient. they wanted to close this and open a school or something. it was ment to be temorary.

[DhadiMania]

wherever a faith went, it always bought its religion and teachings with it.

meaning...

muslims were from saudi arabia, because they actually believed in allah and were strict, look how far they went? indonesia, once a buddhist nation, now taken over by the muslim majority, afghanistan, once a buddhist nation, now look at it.

christians from jerusalem, in 2000 years, look how far they went, europe, america, even south america. i mean, oh my god, how could one make a continent that once gave sacrifices to the sun, and now love one god?

the answer to that is very simple, they believed in god. mann ek, tan ek. the muslims and christians set of as pooran. they still do parchaar, look at al jazeera, abu dhabi tv, ARY tv, and the God channel. do we have one?

gustaphi maaf, but all the above did alot of parchaar in teaching unity and having faith in allah, god, in 500 years after prophet muhammed presented to the world islam, the muslim armies packed a punch to the byzantium empire, it was then in the 1400's they captured constantinople. how? through unity. the byzantium army (and empire) fell through treatchery.

so what am i getting at?

like the empires, the sikh empire under raja ranjit singh went well, many took amrit. and were sikhs. but due to the facts the RSS have crept in and made people follow hindu gods (i seen amritdharis doing this), have we done anything to combat it? have we followed the rules by following SGGS? have the so called "gallent defenders of the faith" SGPC made an attempt to make people into people following SGGS? in 80 years have they sat, and in 80 years what has happened? punjab has been partitioned and suffer alot of cris

is.

gustaphi maaf, but sikhi has travelled anywhere since the world leaders opened their gates to us? we have an opportunity, the southall gurdwara costed £17million. the largest outside india. but what were they trying to show? that money could have gone into making the flower of sikhi grow. at least make an attempt of saving kids and adults from eating meat, smoking, drinking and make them turn towards SGGS.

more or less, we have gone into a rat race of wealth. bibi jagir kaur, and badal (both contenders of the pradhaan of sgpc) were seen at darbar sahib today. both recieved a siropa. but how often do you see them at darbar sahib? only when special people arive. not otherwise.

why waste 17million, when people will look on the outside? but no-one will look and worship the inside? gustaphi maaf, but rare is that guy who observes on the inside.

you can make it a really big gurdwara, but it will be the same as a small gurdwara. why? because of the fact there will be shabad in the inside of the gurdwara. but what counts is how many will worship shabad? my suggestion is people ought to do parchaar and teach the message SGGS carried.

bhol chukke muaff

Das

[SSB]

long time ago havelock gurdwara was packed with sangat 24-7 but the construction toook so long people just liked park av better i myself go to the park avenue one. But even giani sant singh maskin said that they could made somthing where children could learn about sikhi or make it into a sikh school.