Nirgun And Sargun

[tuhintuhin]

If the medium was the stone, then surely Gurbani would say so, so present the Shabad's, which state this. Before you go searching, it would be best to re-read the sakhi again of Bhagat Dhanna Jatt ji.

Also where is everywhere? Ask yourself what is permanent and what is not. Read Bhagat Namdev Ji Maharaj's Shabad again.

Read Bhai Gurdas ji vaaran....

God is above is above science, logic and proofs. Faith, inoocence and love is the priority to Guru sahib instead of tarak and budhi.

[luckysingh99]

Read Bhai Gurdas ji vaaran....

God is above is above science, logic and proofs. Faith, inoocence and love is the priority to Guru sahib instead of tarak and budhi.

I think you should read and contemplate Bhagat Naamdevji's shabad again and then explain according to which Vaaran of Bhai Gurdas ji is there something different.

[Only five]

Read Bhai Gurdas ji vaaran....

God is above is above science, logic and proofs. Faith, inoocence and love is the priority to Guru sahib instead of tarak and budhi.

I don't understand how you think I am implying something about science, logic and proofs. Actually, I am very far from it. I think the process here is very clear in this discussion. The 'I think' is being taken out and what Guru Sahib says is being accepted.

Bhai Gurdas Ji's Varan on the topic of Bhagat Dhanna Jatt Ji Maharaj is saying the opposite of what you said with the stone being the medium. Here it is:

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5770

Pay extra attention to the last line and Bhai Sahib is saying exactly what Gurbani says on Bhagat Dhanna Ji Maharaj. He says it is because of Bhagat ji's child like innocence that was the medium that gave him the Darshan of Thakur. But you can't put Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj in the same cagetory because Satguru uplifts ignorance. If Bhagat ji had the darshan of Satguru, then he would have understood that stone worship is wrong according to Gurmat and would not even approached the Brahmin. No matter how others treat Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj, Satguru stays as the light. This is not about how one views something, but what is, is exactly what it is. A stone is always a stone regardless of what others do around it. Bhagat Namdev Ji Maharaj made this very clear when he wrote what is the difference between the stone you worship and the stone you kick in the street? However the same cannot be applied to Satguru as there is only ONE.

[tuhintuhin]

^^^^.....

I agree with you......stone is a "jooni" too, and waheguru ji is beyond joonis...

so could you please explain what sargun is?

[luckysingh99]

it seems like my tush budhi can't grasp it.....

I agree with you......stone is a "jooni" too, and waheguru ji is beyond joonis...

so could you please explain what sargun is, as I am messed up?

Maybe the below from my previous post could help-

I am coming to the conclusion that sargun is itself part of formless or nirankaar(formless God)

Since Sargun is not to be saying God in human form or other material form, -because this itself is contrary to gurmat, Therefore, sargun roop indicates the ''effect' of His Hukam or divine order, His will, his doing..etc..

In this manner,I gather that both nirgun and sargun are aspects of the 'formless Nirankaar'

My only query is what about ''Antarjamee'' ??

The inner-knower and inner dweller with us, then what exactly do we call that , is it Nirgun or Sargun ??

This is what makes me think that it is 'Sargun', because everywhere we look we can find him or the ''effect'- the shabad, the vibraton or the sound !

(Not to sure how to explain it in simpler terms!)

PS. I may be completely off the mark here, because it is just my thought and interpretation which usually changes over time :stupidme:

overall, i'm trying to say that sargun and nirgun Both constitute to the 'formless nirankar'

[tuhintuhin]

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