Sikhi & Contraception

[luckysingh99]

So we should be performing which shabad /simran?

So you think of god when being intimate is it not wrong to be doing it and thinking of god. Like going to toilet and doing the same. Surely when thinking of god have 100/ full concentration and be clean physically and mentally.

You should have God on your mind 24/7 saas graas and saas saas. -Wth every breath and every morsel of food at all times !

Do you think it's sacrilege to forget about god when in an act of intimacy and love ??

Is feeling love for someone forbidden and should be done with your back to God ?

I'm not really sure what you guys mean !! :stupidme:

There are actually 3 shabads in SGGSJ. Raag Ramkali by Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

You do not control your seed and semen, and yet you claim to practice

abstinence. You beg from Maya, lured by the three qualities. You have no compassion; the Lord.s Light does not shine in you

You are drowned, drowned in worldly entanglements. || 4 || - Ang 903.

No matter how much he tries, he cannot control his semen and

seed. His mind wavers, and he falls into hell. Bound and gagged in the City of Death, he is tortured. Without the Name, his

soul cries out in agony. || 5 || - Ang 906.

If one is not imbued with the Lord.s

Love, nor intoxicated with His subtle essence, without the Word of the Guru.s Shabad, he is frustrated, and consumed by his

own inner fire. He does not preserve his semen and seed, and does not chant the Shabad. He does not control his breath; he

does not worship and adore the True Lord. But one who speaks the Unspoken Speech, and remains balanced, O Nanak, attains

the Lord, the Supreme Soul. || 62 || - Ang 945.

Are these shabads in complete entirety talking about sexual acts ?

Please enlighten me by posting the whole shabads and then giving me your interpretation.

I have often found that one liner tuks taken from shabads can be very misleading sometimes. Therefore it is always best to look at the WHOLE shabad as that is what Guruji's intention was.

[luckysingh99]

Ok, but seriously are we meant to pray when doing it, surely not? does "oh, oh yeah oh my god" count?

So, what are you trying to say ??

No one said anything about praying or doing path whilst having sex or when your wiping your backside or anything else.

All they said was that har, prabh, akal purakh, waheguru should be vibrating within you/your mind/your breath 24/7.

24/7 does not mean you have a little break to cut the 24 short !

[Guest unknownn]

i think a lot young sikhs that were born in the 1990's and 2000's have a lot of answered questions regarding sex in a relationship with thier partners in marriage. especially in regards with using condoms etc.

First of all i would like to say that most of the people that commented so far have said that we should keep god on our minds at all times (jap sas giras etc) but in reality that type of avastha is only for kamee valey gursikhs and the reality is that many of the youth dont have this avastha and probably will never have it (maybe only a handful will have it).

Now the reality is that our youth is constantly exposed to kaam in everyday of life. Take TV shows for example, if young sikhs are watch FAMILY TV (Disney Channel, Hannah montana, wizards of waverdly place, suite life of zack and cody etc) they are constantly being exposed to actors in the shows being in relationships with one another and hitting(flirting) on each other

Then there also are the 14+ and R rated movies and even telvision shows that young sikhs watch.

Then not only that we are exposed to kaami situations in highschool, where guys hit on girls, check girls out, and within each other social group guys will talk about how hot girls are etc. (this situation also apply's to women)

Also, a lot of teenagers make crude sexual jokes to each other.

In reality trying to avoid these situation is really hard espically if you want to be socially accepted by your peers and not be social outcast in school.

Furthermore, there is the internet, where everything is just a click away. For example, young sikhs can easliy view images ranging from supermodels in explicit clothing to porn. And these days kids have started viewing this stuff or have been exposed to this stuff since an early age of atleast 12 yrs old.( this statment is not only referencing sikhs but also other races whites, black chinease etc) Thats the sad truth of the world we live in today.

Also there is the question of masturbation among young sikh teenage males. (i know this topic has been discuseed many times on this forum) but the reality is that alot sikh males have done it atleast once or twice if not regulary within their lifetime. Many sikh men want to stop, but its hard once you start espically when your surrounded by so much kaam from the outside world.

Im just gonna come out and just say wat i have been thinking about regarding masturbation and sex with your married partner.

First of all regarding masturbation, i think it wrong and young sikhs should never engage in this behaviour. But for those have engaged in this behaviour know how hard it is to stop, its really hard but it can be done.

THe only reason men masturbate is because they have strong urge to satisify thier sexual feeling during puberty etc and having a dessire to be in a relationship with the opposite gender. however as sikhs we know we are not allowed to be in a relationship with the opposite gender

But i've been thinking about this lately and here is point of view, if as a young sikh male i have tried so hard to control my kaam by not masturbating and not going on the internet to view explicit images of supermodels, and doing naam abyass and waking up at amritvela to help control kaam in my teenage years. wats the point of doing this if im going to engage in sexual activity with my wife when i get married?

I wish if an elderly gursikh who has knowledge on this topic if they can please answer my question because as young sikh who has tried his best to control..i honestly have some serious question ask reagrding what type of relationship there is allowed in sikhi in regards to intimacy with a wife.

i mean saying to someone that sikhs that are married should never enage in any type of intimacy when married is just absurd, i think for most of us it will be impossible as most of us dont have a high avastha. I think most people when they get married do sort of want to engage in this behaviour because for so many years they have been trying to supress thier kaam inorder to prevent a bujjar kurhet from occuring, and now they can finally engage in this behaviour without commiting a bujjar kurhet. but then most people dont want to have 10 babies instead they rather use contraceptives in order to just make love.

In my opinion i believe that using birth control pills etc is wrong because the egg has already been fertlized. But for using a condom, a condom just prevents that sperm from fertlizing the egg because it acts as a barrier, so for using a condom im not so sure if it should or shouldnt be allowed. i guess its up to a debate on what your sikhi jeevan is like.

Finally, I would like to say that i know sex is a taboo subject among the generation of sikhs that immigrated to western society from india but the for the sikhs that have been born and raised in western society, they are basically growing up with topics regarding sex in their everday lives and i think that this topic on this forum being discussed will be a big issue for sikhs in the future and some sort of resolution should be created to help guide young sikhs.

[sat]

These acts are not dirty, it is our minds that are filthy, love between husband and wife (only) and the act of intimacy is after all created by waheguru how else are we supposed to procreate, as for it just being for that reason, is correct to a certain degree, but then just having sex to procreate without intimacy does that not sound a little barbaric?, same for going to the toilet these are all acts created by God so how can they be wrong, its the manner in which they are acted out or thought of that is right or wrong , which one again comes down to us . we should be remembering waheguru 24/7, which i know is easier said than done but we should try our best.

[Wingz23]

does "oh, oh yeah oh my god" count?

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!

[luckysingh99]

I'm surprised anyone finds that funny :stupidme:

[Guest gupt]

If sex for pleasure is allowed after marriage then why is sex restricted before marriage in Sikhi? Sex is not a need like food is for the body where you can die if you don't eat for weeks. Sex is a want, where the desire can be brought down and you will not die from not having sex for a life time. Safe contraception surely have given a higher probability that a child will not be born after the act, but what exactly have you done to improve your Sikhi by using the contraception? Is that feeling when you have sex last forever and you have seen God for the first time? Does the act of having sex with contraception make your partner or you more closer to God?

For instance, imagine there was no contraception, but the ability to abort a child was there. How many of you whether married or not would have sex knowing that a child being born would be the result? If you wanted to have a child you would pick your partners carefully and if you did not want to have a child you would very likely stay away from sex or sexual behaviour. If you did have sex and for whatever reason did not want to have a child, would you abort the baby? Moral and ethical humans would think a million times, but as Sikhs we are held at a higher standard. Meaning that we have no choice to play God in this matter and we will have to accept the result of having sex with whoever it was.

The idea of using contraception sounds like when the government sets up laws only to govern the people, but not themselves. In this case the people are all the unmarried people and the self righteous government is the people who are married and using contraception. The government is saying I have the right to have sex for the same reason you (single people) want to have sex and use contraception with another person, but you can't have it because you are not married. :stupidme: The law (Gurbani) does not say indulge in the pleasure of sex once you're married. The Gurus did not look at whether you are married or not when they judge you on whether you were indulging in pleasure of sex. Ever seen a bank robber with a mask on and his name printed on the back of his shirt? No! because not all bank robbers are stupid enough to do it. Well guess what kind of signal you are giving to the Gurus once you use a contraception? God is not stupid and neither is Gurbani here to help people create laws to indulge in their uncontrollable desires.

How many parents here have denied their child a so called need for a toy at the store because they could not afford the toy or knew the toy would not be good for their child? No matter how many times the child cries, whines, screams, or how long the child does this for the parent stands their ground. As a grown up, why can't a married couple do the same by governing themselves? Because you don't know or understand how much you are losing by having sex by using contraception and neither are you ready to hear how much you are losing. Many want to ignore and continue on crying, screaming, and whining; what you may call flirting or sexual behaviour. In a similar manner as a child pushes the parent away and attaches himself to the toy. You are pushing God out of your life by having sex and attaching your mind to sex.

Many ask if sex was intended for procreation, then why make it pleasurable? Ask yourself is sex pleasurable or are you making it pleasurable? The mind controls what is pleasurable and not the body. The body just sends off signals telling the mind what it is going through, so it does not go into danger. Certain fluids are released from the body to decrease the pain and prevent the body from being in pain and/or hurting itself when the act is occurring. Could you imagine if the body was unable to tell the mind that their could be danger up ahead? Ask those people how their lives are who cannot feel when they have been cut open and only find out when they see the blood coming out of them. Those fluids that are released during sex are not their for pleasure, but to prevent the body from getting hurt. Take those fluids and go around exchanging them with different partners and now you will have many problems in your body. God has designed this human body to perfection, but humans misuse it for their desires.

Sikhs travel on the middle ground. Sikhs don't indulge in the pleasure and neither do they act like machines with no thought into the process of sex. If there was no thought then eight hour shifts would be very long and their would be a lot of mechanical problems. It is about respect. Respecting the choice of having a child or trying to have a child. Respecting the mind and body by not letting them be attached to things that will harm them. And it is about respecting your married partner.

[luckysingh99]

I think that some of us can clearly tell who the 'gupt' poster above really is !! :lol2: :respect:

Why be hiding under the gupt façade if you think others hide their uncontrollable desires under the allowed banner of 'sex with contraception' ????

and you need not start sending me pm's because I have a very good idea who you are !

[charanvirsingh]

find out first hand

gurmat veechar

present day katha

sant jagjit singh ji harkhowal

brahmcharj and pati patni dharam folder

also scroll down for characteristics of a weak sadhu

[Guest]

sudh jab te ham dhari, bacan gur dae hamare,

put ihe pran tone praan jab lag ghat thare,

nij nari ke sath neh tum nit bodhaio

par nari ki sej bhul supne hu na jayo

Ever since I came of age, the Guru instructed me thus:

Son, take an oath and keep it as long as there is life in you,

Love thy legal wife ever and ever so much that

Not even in a dream should you share the bed of other woman.

This is what guru gobind Singh ji sache patshah says.