What Are Sikh Views On Dinosaurs, Neanderthals And Evolution

[Chronos]

Everything happens according to the timeless one's will he has created millions upon millions of stars, planets , lifeforms,. perhaps the dinosaurs and plants were needed to create the fossil fuels, and black gold that we plough in the fields ...is it necessary to waste valuable breaths on speculation just live in this breath .

That's hardly an answer to his question.

Easier said than done, living in "this" breath requires a huge amount of sacrafice... and for people who are hesitant to make such sacrafices to begin with... questions such as the previous poster asked arise amongst many people including myself. To simply put them of with these round the bush type answers do nothing but enforce their doubts.

I know, because i am speaking from personal experience. The Youth of today especially in the west require more explanations than our parents did as we live in the age of information and everything is more subject to scrutiny. There are so many contradictions that our parents and elders cannot explain, yet we are forced down this path.

[jkvlondon]

That's hardly an answer to his question.

Easier said than done, living in "this" breath requires a huge amount of sacrafice... and for people who are hesitant to make such sacrafices to begin with... questions such as the previous poster asked arise amongst many people including myself. To simply put them of with these round the bush type answers do nothing but enforce their doubts.

I know, because i am speaking from personal experience. The Youth of today especially in the west require more explanations than our parents did as we live in the age of information and everything is more subject to scrutiny. There are so many contradictions that our parents and elders cannot explain, yet we are forced down this path.

I was born in the west so I know what you are saying, but honestly if the proof of these lifeforms are there what Is there to ask ? we have been told in Gurbani that Waheguru has created multiverses, planets, stars, organisms etc from Waheguru itself .That Waheguru is Light , we know all things breakdown to being made of photons ultimately so does that not confirm the agreement of Bani and observations of the humans over time? Waheguru has and will create many creatures forms of life throughout the creation. Yes for Waheguru who is outside time making many stages of development in each species is nothing so evolution is possible also is evidence is left there by Him for us to 'discover' it is all part of his game, but of course it is a test too are we swayed into paying attention to the game or the Naam.

[Chronos]

I was born in the west so I know what you are saying, but honestly if the proof of these lifeforms are there what Is there to ask ? we have been told in Gurbani that Waheguru has created multiverses, planets, stars, organisms etc from Waheguru itself .That Waheguru is Light , we know all things breakdown to being made of photons ultimately so does that not confirm the agreement of Bani and observations of the humans over time? Waheguru has and will create many creatures forms of life throughout the creation. Yes for Waheguru who is outside time making many stages of development in each species is nothing so evolution is possible also is evidence is left there by Him for us to 'discover' it is all part of his game, but of course it is a test too are we swayed into paying attention to the game or the Naam.

I can understand that view point, but let's go back to what the original poster asked along with a few other questions that arose from that discussion. I too am looking for answers regarding these questions, not just for personal acceptance but to be able to answer similar questions that may be put forward to me. If i am not confident in my own theoretical knowledge how can i pass on knowledge to others?

There is large emphasis on the human body as it is the only life form through which the "soul" can achieve mukhti, if this is the case... does that then mean all previous life forms before the current day human did not have a soul?

[jkvlondon]

I can understand that view point, but let's go back to what the original poster asked along with a few other questions that arose from that discussion. I too am looking for answers regarding these questions, not just for personal acceptance but to be able to answer similar questions that may be put forward to me. If i am not confident in my own theoretical knowledge how can i pass on knowledge to others?

There is large emphasis on the human body as it is the only life form through which the "soul" can achieve mukhti, if this is the case... does that then mean all previous life forms before the current day human did not have a soul?

It is not that those lifeforms don't have souls, they do, however they cannot action bhagti they just exist tied into the needs and survival in the physical realm without a way out that's why the soul suffers because it cannot call on waheguru to express its longing for Waheguru. and you have to spend many lifetimes like that being born, suffering , dying before getting back to the HUman one where we can put a voice to our need

[Chronos]

It is not that those lifeforms don't have souls, they do, however they cannot action bhagti they just exist tied into the needs and survival in the physical realm without a way out that's why the soul suffers because it cannot call on waheguru to express its longing for Waheguru. and you have to spend many lifetimes like that being born, suffering , dying before getting back to the HUman one where we can put a voice to our need

Are you referring to the life forms that exist now alongside the human form, or life forms prior to human existence?

[jkvlondon]

Are you referring to the life forms that exist now alongside the human form, or life forms prior to human existence

ALL lifeforms past present and future...

[Chronos]

It is not that those lifeforms don't have souls, they do, however they cannot action bhagti they just exist tied into the needs and survival in the physical realm without a way out that's why the soul suffers because it cannot call on waheguru to express its longing for Waheguru. and you have to spend many lifetimes like that being born, suffering , dying before getting back to the HUman one where we can put a voice to our need

So what you're saying is that souls were taken from Vaheguru and placed into the creatures that existed before humans. This doesn't make any sense, in a previous post you are essentially endorsing evolution by stating that all the life forms and conditions leading up to human existence may have been planned for a prosperous environment for humans.

Yet, you are failing to recognise that if you endorse evolution we began as bacteria. Does that mean then you beleive that bacteria has a soul?

Further to this, this sounds extremely unfair. Souls are taken from vaheguru and put into these creatures just to survuve. When and how does their Karmic cycle begin? How do they earn karma to attain a human body when the chance arises in the distant future?

Lastly, in Anand Sahib it states that "The lord blew the breath of life into the instrument of the human body" Does this not endorse a creationist view?

I hope i have not offended as my questions are being put forward with the purest of intentions for my own development.

[jkvlondon]

So what you're saying is that souls were taken from Vaheguru and placed into the creatures that existed before humans. This doesn't make any sense, in a previous post you are essentially endorsing evolution by stating that all the life forms and conditions leading up to human existence may have been planned for a prosperous environment for humans.

'TAKEN'? nah they are still with waheguru( Sabh meh jyot, jyot ha soe, tis de chanan sabh meh chanan hoe, gur sakheee jyot pargat hoe jo tis bhave so aarti hoe) its our egos that create the False veil of seperateness. Waheguru is rameia in His creation, never seperate.

Yet, you are failing to recognise that if you endorse evolution we began as bacteria. Does that mean then you beleive that bacteria has a soul?

My position is All lifeforms have souls wasn't that clear? that is why our bodies are referred to as 'jio pind' village of living creatures

When and how does their Karmic cycle begin? How do they earn karma to attain a human body when the chance arises in the distant future?

Our souls are the same stuff as Waheguru therefore timeless so these cycles could take many, many thousands of years to get to the human birth that's why it is 'jewel-like' in its value and why you wouldn't slip back into the cycles again. From what I can understand the cycles start point vary according to the karmic earnings of this life and the focus in our last moments. That's why we cannot hesitate to install naam in our hirdae... we never know when death will take us.

Lastly, in Anand Sahib it states that "The lord blew the breath of life into the instrument of the human body" Does this not endorse a creationist view?

Creationists believe in Adam and Eve and that the universe was created for them ...Sikhi doesn't, the universe existed before us this acknowledged, and will expand and contract many times each time everything is destroyed and then starts again from scratch so that indicates for now we are the lifeform on this planet who can do bhagti. This does not mean there cannot be another planet somewhere in the multiverse where someone else is doing bhagti. Yes Waheguru created the organised mass of cells (chemical 'clay') that forms our body and once it is ready the heart starts beating and our consciousness comes into being that s the jot is installed in the clay.

I hope i have not offended as my questions are being put forward with the purest of intentions for my own development.

[alias]

Hi Guys,

Do Sikhs beleive in Evolution? If so, what is the reason for the huge time gap for humans to arrive since the Earth's Inception.

Not really,.... Evolution is a term used when you don't admit that man,animal, creatures...etc.. were BOTH Created and Destroyed.... instead evolution goes on the route that they just changed and evolved.

In this regard Sikhi and Gurbani does NOT endorse evolution because it says that Akal Purakkh can create and destroy as many times he wants and that he has done !

you say evolution is not part of sikhism because if we believe in evolution, we cant believe that god created humans and animals "BOTH". this is a creationist argument. maharaj says jo tis paya so eka vaar. this is conservation of energy. god put everything in this universe one time. the rest is gods khed (play). evolution IZ a part of that play. the change is what god's hukam is. the change is the creation and destruction.

maharaj says, sache te pavana bhaeya. pavanai te jul hoi jul te trebhavan sajya ghat ghat jort samoee nirmal maila na theeai sabad rete pat hoi.

this means from god himself, came the air, from the air came 'liquid' from this water came all that exists, and the light of god is infused in this. god doesnt get affected by this, meditating on god, you achieve amazingness.

from the big bang, came the air. (sikhs believe from god, through the void, came this air). what is this air? long story short (quantum, to supergravity, to plasma, to hydrogen), the air is hydrogen. from this, this condensed and made gas clouds to form (liquid) stars then eventually, long story short, oxygen also came.the hydroggen and oxygen then again came together to form water. we say we are born of stars (from the liquid came all that exists) and from water came evolution. us.

there are loads of more tuks from guru maharaj. sunn k-la aparangpar dhaari .... (ang 1037) this explains the existance of the world in amazing depth. once you see it, your eyes will be opened. paun paani sunnai te saajai.. all came from the void.

before we take a stance of being against evolution, and effectively what our own partakh guru says, lets look at the facts friends.

gurfateh.

[alias]

This has been on my mind since ages.

According to Gurbani there are 84 lakh life forms.

As per my little knowledge there is no mention of them decreasing or increasing.

So that means dinosaur's aren't extinct !

goo one!

nice thought.

there exists change in the world though..?

so... this means that in place of dinosaurs, some other new form of life springs.

and this means dinosaurs can indeed be extinct!

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