I Need A Vichola

[Simran9]

no I'm not getting married right now if thats what u thought :wub:

saadhsangat ji,

I was listening to kirtan and have come to a conclusion. I need a vichola---> a sant/saadhu/mahapursh who can guide me in Sikhi cuz I can't do it alone and I have never come across a real one here. (There are sant babey here who are after your money by solving your problems and telling your future ).

Its kinda like this (this idea taken from the kirtan I heard, I take no credit for it): I come to the bus station every day but whats the use of wasting time there if I'm not gonna get on the bus? Lets say I get on the bus, but until I have a driver I won't get anywhere, I'll still be at the bus station at the end of the day. To get on the bus I need a ticket and to get somewhere I need a driver.

In the same way lets look at Nanak Naam Jahaaz Hai. Guru ji did kirpa and made a vehicle for all of sansaar to get on and reach destination sachkhand. The ticket is amrit shakana, the passport and visa is rehit maryada. But I also need a driver to drive me there. I need a teacher to teach me, and that teacher is a vichola.

(Now I think some of you might say that Guru ji is the driver himself. I don't exactly agree with that, its kinda hard to explain.)

Where will I find that vichola? Rare are the Gursikhs who reach sachkhand in

their mind before they die.

I can't even focus on my education anymore. I find it pointless now to spend my time learning about stuff that isn't leading me to Waheguru. I feel like dropping out of college. Yes Sikhi is in suppport of one getting educated, but I think one should be educated in Sikhi. What is my bachelors degree worth if I don't even know 10 Guru's names, if I don't know how to do do paath,etc. Who knows how long one is gonna live? Can't even be sure of the next breath. I don't wanna waste more time in pointless education, I wanna get to the real stuff.

If one is Gursikh, all the maya/padaarths come following him; juz like if one faces the sun then the shade will automatically follow him. But if one is running after the maya and things of the world, then the shade is in front and now I am following the shade and the sun to my back.

So tell me about the respected Sants/Saadhu/Mahapursh of Sikhi. Where are they mainly located? (for example, I know that Sant Baba Isher Singh ji was mainly located at Gurudwara Rara Sahib, and Sant Baba Karam Singh ji was also there then he moved 2 kilometers away to a new place where a Gurudwara was being built 2 years ago, but I dunno if its ready now.) How did they reach their level of enlightenment? Which books should I read to learn about their jeevan? If its online gimme a link.

If I wanted to move to India and become a student of one these mahapursh, how would I ever reach them or find them, get them to keep me in their place with their other students and teach me?

In the meanwhile, how do I focus on education so I don't start failing my classes here?

I know it got kinda long, but I dunno how else to be thorough and clear. :D

thanx if you can give me advice and tell me about the saadhus of the past and the present.

<

!--emo&-->

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

bhenji, damdami taksal has always had a brahm giani as a their jathedar

sant baba thakur singh je is jathedar in absence of sant je, but is a pooran brahm giani

amazing

trust me, their sangat will make u pure gursikh

i also know enough taksalis, and i spent some time with them, and i was just like vaheguru, they do enourmus bhagti

damdami taksal is like a mine of sants and yodhas

ull for sure find sants there

rara sahib has split jathedars now

nanaksar has split jathedars now

rara sahib and nanaksar are both amazing though, u shud just go spend some time there

and as for past sadhus, theres ennnough

of course taksal

rara sahib has so many sants, like sant baba ishar singh

sant baba harnam singh je rampur khera wale

sant baba attar singh je mustana wale

nanaksar sants like sant baba nand singh je and sant baba ishar singh je

nihang baba mitt singh je

nihang baba keertan singh je

these are recent sants

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Pheena]

First before you venture out to seek a Master, you must first know how to recoganize a master. I got this from a Book.....hope it will give you something to work with.

___________

A saint is in whose presence the formless descends and becomes a presence…through whom you can have a look at the farthest star…through whom you can have a feeling of God himself…through whose words silence speaks, and through whose eyes the infinite peeks at you. And if you hold his hand, you will suddenly see: the hand is his, but not only his—God is holding your hand through him. he is a vehicle, a bamboo flute on the lips of the infinite. He gives form to the formless, he is the embodiment of the formless.

You have to be very open and vulnerable, only then will you be able to feel a Master. Don’t go to a Master with a negative attitude, otherwise you will never reach him. The very negative attitude will not allow his vibe to reach you. The negative attitude will not allow you to move into the same wavelength in which he lives. Hence trust is needed. Hence love is needed. Otherwise you will go empty and you will come empty—and when you will come empty you will say, ‘This is not the real master. I went empty and I have come empty.’ If you are open and the Master is not real, nothing will happen; and you will know it, and you will know it certainly, that this is not for you, that this is not the man you are seeking. But be open—because if you are open, only then can you know whether he is true or not. If you are closed, sooner or later you will become a victim of somebody who is a pseudo-Master-because pseudo-Masters try to convince you argumentatively.

The real Masters are v

ery paradoxical, very contradictory. They are as contradictory as life itself, because they embody life. They are the inconsistent as God himself, because they embody god. They are not logical, they are very illogical—because they are super-logical, because they are bringing something which cannot be grasped thru logic.

In the closeness of a real Master you will feel you are closed to an abyss…but if you open--only then. If you are not open, you will become a victim to some pseudo-person who can convince you, who can talk you in, who can seduce you in. For example, if you are greedy he will talk about greed. He will tell you how much you are going to gain out of meditation, the prayer. He will persuade your greed, how much you are going to have in heaven if you follow him. He will promise you much. A true Master never promises anything. In fact he shatters you completely—your greed, your desire, you idea of becoming somebody, being somebody—he shatters all in all. A real master is a rock against which your boat is completely shattered…your whole mind is shattered. He drives you crazy; he does not argue. His argument is more of him being than his words.

But we are greedy. We live through greed, we are afraid, full of fear—somebody gives us consolation, we become victims. A real Master is not a consolation, he is not a solace. He is, in fact, death to you. He kills you, he destroys you, he is very destructive…but creativity is possible only when the old is destroyed. When the old ceases to be, the new can enter in.

I have heard a beautiful anecdote. Meditate over it….

The letter from Sean to his old, old mother was heartening.

‘Dear mother,’ he wrote, ‘I am sending you some pills that a witch doctor gave me an dif you take one, it will take years of your life.’

He came home a few weeks later and there was a beautiful young woman outside his house rocking a pram in which a baby lay sucking a bottle.

‘Where’s my mother?’ he asked

‘Arrah, don’t be silly,’ she said. ‘I’m you moth

er and these pills were marvelous.’

‘Imagine!’ said Sean. ‘One pill, and you are as beautiful as anyone could be—and what’s more, you were able to have a baby. Lord, but they were powerful!’

‘You madman!’ she cried. ‘That’s not a baby, that’s your father. He took two;’

Avoid greed—otherwise you will take two pills. And there are many people who are selling things like that. Witch doctors….

A Master is not here to fulfill your greed, he is here to destroy your greed. Because once greed is destroyed, you become available to yourself. If you are greedy you are never available to yourself. Greed becomes desire, desire becomes projection in the future. And you are always wandering somewhere in the future; you are never here now. Greed takes you away from yourself: greed has to be destroyed.

A Master never promises you anything—but only in the presence of a Master something becomes possible he will not tell you: ‘I will take death away from you’, or ‘You will become immortal’. He is not giving you nectar, elixir, ambrosia. Of course, being with a Master one become immortal—but not that he makes you immortal. He simply takes you deep into the existence of death.

Just look at it: He takes you deep into the experience of death. That is what deep meditation is all about—a death experience. And when you have known your death, watched it, suddenly you realized you are separate from it. It happens, but it never happens to you. It happens on the periphery, it never reaches to the center. It happens to the body, it never happens to you And the body is nothing but your abode. You have changed many bodies, and you will change many more—but you are immortal. But a real Master does not promise it. He delivers it one day, but there is no promise for it. If you are seeking one state where fear will dissolve, some state where your greed will be fulfilled, some state where you will be titillated constantly with pleasure, paradise, then you are bound to become a victim of some pseudo-person.

When you come to a living Saint/Master, deep down something in you wants to bow down. It is not that you are going to do a certain formality—if you are doing , it is meaningless. But something really down in your spirit, deep in your spirit, deep in your center, wants to bow down. The bowing to a Master is no more ritualistic. It is alive, it is meaningful, it is not an empty gesture. But you can just go on bowing down to anybody, because you have been taught to bow down—then it is useless. Try to see the difference. When something is born into you out of of your spontaneity, then it is true. When you have to do something as a duty, it is untrue. ‘Duty’ is a dirty word. If something is born out of love, good. If something is born out of duty, avoid it, never do it—because that is dangerous. If you learn the ways of duty too much, you will forget they ways of love. Duty is against love. Duty is false substitute for love.

[Balait_da_Sher]

Please look at the last tuk of this Shabad.

drSx vyKx nwmdyv Blky au~T iqRlocn AwvY]

dharashan vaekhan naamadhaev bhalakae out(h) thrilochan aavai||

Trilochan awoke early daily just to have sight of Namdev,

Bgiq krn iml duie jxy nwmdyau hir clq suxwvY]

bhagath karan mil dhue janae naamadhaeo har chalath sunaavai||

Together they would concentrate on the Lord and Namdev would tell him the grand stories of God.

myrI BI kr bynqI drSn dyKW jy iqs BwvY]

maeree bhee kar baenathee dharashan dhaekhaa(n) jae this bhaavai||

(Trilochan asked Namdev) “kindly pray for me so that if the Lord accepts, I may also have a glimpse of His blessed vision.”

Twkur jI noN puiCEs drSn ikvYN iqRlocn pwvY]

t(h)aakur jee no(n) pushhious dharashan kivai(n) thrilochan paavai||

Namdev asked Thakur, the Lord, as to how Trilochan could have sight of the Lord ?

hskY Twkur boilAw nwmdyau noN kih smJwvY]

hasakai t(h)aakur boliaa naamadhaeo no(n) kehi samajhaavai||

The Lord God smiled and explained to Naamdev;

hQ n AwvY Byt so qus iqRlocn mYN muih lwvY]

hathh n aavai bhaett so thus thrilochan mai(n) muhi laavai||

“No offerings are needed by me. Out of my delight only, I would make Trilochan to have sight of me. "

hauN ADIn hW Bgq dy phuMc n hMGW BgqI dwvY]

hou(n) adhheen haa(n) bhagath dhae pahu(n)ch n ha(n)ghaa(n) bhagathee dhaavai||

I am under the total control of the devotees and their loving claims I can never reject; rather I myself also cannot understand them.

hoie ivcolw Awx imlwvY ]ñò]

hoe vicholaa aan milaavai ||aa||

Their loving devotion, in fact, becomes mediator and makes them meet me.”

[Son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji]

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

I kind of felt of offended by this statement: "I need a vichola---> a sant/saadhu/mahapursh"

Now, isn't Sikhi full of Vichole/Gursikhs? And since there so many Naam Abhiyaasis/Karni Vale, are we supposed to pick one? This is the idea that the above statement gives me. As Sikhs we can only look upto Guru Sahib, his Gursikhs are just here to help us. And if you think you need to find ONE Gursikh to help you then I think you are mistaken. The darr (house) of Sants/Maha Purakhs should be open to all. What I mean is that, if you need some clarification from Baba Thakur Singh Ji, you really shouldn't have to claim yourself as Taksali, or if you need to find out something from those in charge of Rara Sahib samprada, you shouldn't have to be a sangtee of just Rara Sahib. The different Jathe or Maha Purakhs in Sikhi are for here to help us, but I don't think our Guru Sahib recommended that we hold the finger of any one Sant throughout our life and he will let us to the other side of the ocean. This whole idea does not seem Sikh to me.

pauVI ]

gurisKW min hir pRIiq hY guru pUjx Awvih ]

hir nwmu vxMjih rMg isau lwhw hir nwmu lY jwvih ]

gurisKw ky muK aujly hir drgh Bwvih ]

guru siqguru bohlu hir nwm kw vfBwgI isK gux sWJ krwvih ]

iqnw gurisKw kMau hau vwirAw jo bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvih ]11]

Now clearly the above panktee in bold states that Guru Sahib is the treasure which we are after, and if you think some one else is going to open

the lock of that treasure, which is naam, for you and just give it over to you, then you are wrong. They can only share their knowledge or good qualities (gunns) through which they were able to open that treasure. If you want that treasure you need to do kamaae of Guru's word yourself, but yes, you can seek help from other Gursikhs (which you refer to as Sants/Maha Purakhs) but you won't be able to accomplish anything without your own work.

AMimRqu pIAw siqguir dIAw ]

Avru n jwxw dUAw qIAw ]

eyko eyku su Apr prMpru priK KjwnY pwiedw ]12]

Now why would Guru Sahib himself say that there is no need for a third when you have recieved that amrit from Guru Sahib? This is because Guru Sahib never wanted to introduce the Hindu idea of "doing good deeds through the Brahmins." We know how Hindus have to get all their religious rites done through Brahmans. Do we want such practises to become a part of Sikhi?

So tell me about the respected Sants/Saadhu/Mahapursh of Sikhi. Where are they mainly located? (for example, I know that Sant Baba Isher Singh ji was mainly located at Gurudwara Rara Sahib, and Sant Baba Karam Singh ji was also there then he moved 2 kilometers away to a new place where a Gurudwara was being built 2 years ago, but I dunno if its ready now.) How did they reach their level of enlightenment? Which books should I read to learn about their jeevan? If its online gimme a link.

These Gursikhs live no where else but in feet of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Just like you have asked, you should definately read books of karni vale Gursikhs, but just to learn from them, not to find one particular

person because most often what people do after they come across a great Gursikh is "auhnU Awpxw sMq Dwr lYNdy ny." And this is what I find wrong in my personal opinion.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on anything what I said or if I offended anyone.

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

[Singh47]

Bhain Jee, I don’t think you need a Sant/Saadh to guide you anywhere. All you need is the Aasra of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Guru Jee is the true vichola between you and Vaheguru as Parmatma can only be obtained through the grace of the Guru (Gurparsaad). Keep your rehet/Amritvela, go to the Gurdwara to do Sangat and do seva. That is all you need to do. Guru jee has made the rehet in such a way that it in itself is sufficient enough to guide you.

You have to understand that Sant/Saadh culture is a relatively modern phenomenon within Sikh history no older than a 100 years or so. How do you think the Sikhs before that got Darshan of Vaheguru? It was obviously because of the fact that they had faith in the rehet and not any man.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Vichola... :T:

Try the Eternal Sikh Vichola...Guru Granth Sahib.

[Singh132]

Like the others in this thread I will say that if you are a Sikh, then you already have a "vichola". That is Satguru Granth Sahib. Someone who tries to attach you to him/herself or an organization as a vichola is doing you no favour.

Here's an experiment that perhaps you could try: Go before Satuguru Granth Sahib and do a sincere ardas that you being Guru jee's Sikh do not want to look anywhere else. Ask for Guru jee to lead you. Guru jee is the greatest guide of all and once you go to Guru jee's feet and ask for his leadership, and are willing to obey and follow unconditionally, Guru Sahib will certainly lead.

But a cautionary note: make sure your desire for a "vichola" isn't a desire to meet Vahiguru without any of the effort. Make sure it's not a request made out of laziness ie. "you do it for me". Being a Sikh of the Guru is a difficult path in that you must obey every hukam. The different sadhs/sants will offer you a false path which seems much easier but gets nowhere.

[Pheena]

ok i don't think i need to post any quotes, but The Guru Granth Sahib clearly tells us that without the Guru you cannot acheive liberation. So a Mediator or a Vichola is necessary. Now the question that lies infront is that Can this Vichola exist in the Human form or can it 'only' be in the Shabad Form??

I understand clearly what you guys have said. But my question is that, When one says there can be no other Guru besides the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, does he not mean that no other Guru in human forum will take the Gurgudhi of the preceeding 10 Gurus Or does it mean that No Guru shall ever be born?

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

tru guru je is our guru, but i dont think that means we shudnt go to sants to learn from them and get their sangat

bani is FULL of thuks with where it says we shud go to meet with sants, and do sadhsangat

guru je always the highest

but sants can always help ALOT

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!