Want To Cut Kesh After 10 Years As An Amritdari/keshdari - Please Advise

[Guest anon]

Sangat Ji,

I became an amritdari/keshdari 10 years ago, but now want to cut my kesh, and become a sahajdari sikh.

I believe that all the Saheeds of Sikhi, were martyred for freedom, the freedom to be a Sikh, a Hindu or whatever. I don’t think anyone should be blackmailed into being forced to keep kesh, if one chooses to cut kesh – all the guilt tripping is wrong.

The Guru’s & Sikhs fought, died, lived for freedom. If one is motivated to become an amritdari then that person should have the freedom to pursue it. If 10 years later, as I am, wants to leave amrit, then why is it made so fundamentally difficult?

You can be a sahajdari and still jaap naam, do kirat, and donate 10% (which few amritdari’s do, I only did it one year).

And I don’t have to give my reasons for wanting to cut kesh to anyone, thank Waheguru I live in liberal democracy, not a theocratic-police state.

While I don’t wish to give my reasons, I want to solicit arguments for me keeping my kesh. Because in the big scheme of things, is it so wrong, to cut kesh, but still be a god fearing Sikh? When I die, if I don’t go to hell, or 84 lakh cycle, and by some miracle see the Guru’s & Saheeds, I will bow and say “I was weak and unworthy, I did what I could in my life, but I just can’t keep kesh out of fear, guilt, recrimination of fellow Sikhs. I choose to become an amritdari, and 10 years later I cut my kesh, I am a sinner, but whatever I am, I am still a Sikh, be it the most unworthy Sikh.”

Regards,

Anon,

Ps,

I am reasonably educated, intelligent person, and don’t believe cutting my hair will make me outcast, since I may take amrit again in the future. But if people say I am outcast, have commited a cardinal/treacherous sin – I almost feel like saying so be it! Yes I am a wretched manmukh, though all western political philosophy, science is derived by putting the bible and the Abrahamic Gods word aside, and using manmukhi to think of the answers to the fundamental questions of the human condition.

[Pritpalsingh1 4]

To cut your kesh is a massive thing brother, and I think you will regret it massively our kesh is a natural blessing from our guru, look into our history and you will find the inspiration eg Bhai Taru Singh? I cut my hair all my life as a kid as in Mac 3 job all over, sometimes I have nightmares that I cut my hair and nearly start crying, bro my advice is do ardas and think long and hard to think you can amrat again at a later late is a bad way to think as your blessed with it already.

God bless

[Guest Anongram101]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Bhai Taru Singh ji's example, to me, when I think deep inside my atma, was a stand against the tyranny. Was the saheedi for kesh? or the freedom to keep kesh, be a sikh, and not be compelled/forced to be a muslim. Was not the saheedi in many ways for the freedom to live without compulsion? I don't think its right to be guilt tripped into being compelled to keep kesh. What I believe is that we should fight & die for freedom, and as Human Beings be ready to stand against tyranny. Whether I do 10 japji sahibs a day, or somehow do 250 japji sahibs a day, achieve state of sehaj, have my dasam duvaar open etc... I would never be equal to even a toenail of Bhai Taru Singh.

After all the Gurbani we have been blessed with, is modern day Sikhi for which we the Sikhs of today are responsible for, not enlightened enough to give someone a break, and let them have a hair cut? Or are we as the muslims/christians parading around with hundreds of scriptural verses, condemming all non-believers or even not pure enough muslims/christians to agonising eternities of hell fire and torture?

So if I cut my kesh, I have let down the side.... but the panth in its greatness is infinitely bigger than me, and to be honest, I expect Sikhi to have an exit clause to go back down to god fearing, lowly cut kesh sikh............ as opposed to say, as an example, Islam, that once someone becomes a muslim, if they leave the faith, then under the most straight forward interpretation, they should be executed for the transgression. A Man, a Human Being, and yes a Manmukh (who still fears God, believes in Sikhi) should have a greater degree of freedom.

Kind Regards,

Anon - who wants to cut kesh, without having to risk being a total outcast.

[S4NGH 755]

I was just thinking about this the other day.

The other day at the gurdwara a member of the sangat told me to take amrit at the next sanchar on the weekend...though I respect him for his kind words, obviously he wishes well for me, i felt rather pressured lol. But long story short, what happens if one takes amrit and then decides the lifestyle is not for them? A year (however long) down the road after taking amrit, one decides that they're not quite ready for it, they want out.

is there an exit clause?

[hsingh8963 373]

Don't make this mistake man. Please. There are.so many quotes of keeping kesh in gurbani. A gursikh is one who follows the gurus maryada.

[jkvlondon 5,663]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Bhai Taru Singh ji's example, to me, when I think deep inside my atma, was a stand against the tyranny. Was the saheedi for kesh? or the freedom to keep kesh, be a sikh, and not be compelled/forced to be a muslim. Was not the saheedi in many ways for the freedom to live without compulsion? I don't think its right to be guilt tripped into being compelled to keep kesh. What I believe is that we should fight & die for freedom, and as Human Beings be ready to stand against tyranny. Whether I do 10 japji sahibs a day, or somehow do 250 japji sahibs a day, achieve state of sehaj, have my dasam duvaar open etc... I would never be equal to even a toenail of Bhai Taru Singh.

After all the Gurbani we have been blessed with, is modern day Sikhi for which we the Sikhs of today are responsible for, not enlightened enough to give someone a break, and let them have a hair cut? Or are we as the muslims/christians parading around with hundreds of scriptural verses, condemming all non-believers or even not pure enough muslims/christians to agonising eternities of hell fire and torture?

So if I cut my kesh, I have let down the side.... but the panth in its greatness is infinitely bigger than me, and to be honest, I expect Sikhi to have an exit clause to go back down to god fearing, lowly cut kesh sikh............ as opposed to say, as an example, Islam, that once someone becomes a muslim, if they leave the faith, then under the most straight forward interpretation, they should be executed for the transgression. A Man, a Human Being, and yes a Manmukh (who still fears God, believes in Sikhi) should have a greater degree of freedom.

Kind Regards,

Anon - who wants to cut kesh, without having to risk being a total outcast.

I think you are confused as to what a sehajdhari sikh is , Guru Nanak Dev ji set the requirement for kesh not Guru Gobind SIngh ji it was the first rehit given to Bhai Mardana, so even being a sehajdhari means keeping kesh . what has occured to make you so unhappy about your kesh and your banis ? We can intellectualise ad nauseum but the truth remains the truth you need Guru ji's blessings to get anywhere in life and to succeed in life's mission you need to give your whole self : ego , mind , body and soul to him and follow his orders, even if hard , inconvienent or you don't understand why. The why will become apparent as you progress.

[jkvlondon 5,663]

I was just thinking about this the other day.

The other day at the gurdwara a member of the sangat told me to take amrit at the next sanchar on the weekend...though I respect him for his kind words, obviously he wishes well for me, i felt rather pressured lol. But long story short, what happens if one takes amrit and then decides the lifestyle is not for them? A year (however long) down the road after taking amrit, one decides that they're not quite ready for it, they want out.

is there an exit clause?

maybe he could see what you couldn't ... that we ALL are people of one breath , the current one ...there are no guarantees for the next and the last one is gone ...we should use every precious breath Waheguru blesses us with to get to mission target.

I think you have to remember not everyone who goes , gets amrit ...there is a process you have to ask humbly from Guru Granth and Guru Panth for that boon and the panj will voice the Guru's yes or no ...I have been told No when younger because They could see that I would need to go through some stuff before I would be ready I was told to have Amrit after College (I was 10) but they would give me and my siblings choola. Others have been heart-broken like me but not given a time to come back.

When Guru ji says Yes it is the culmination of millions of years journey of your soul, it is your destiny opening up...

If Guru ji has embraced you as his beloved son, his Khalsa , for whom he sacrificed every last one of his pleasures in life and his family laughingly, a Father who promised his utmost attention and love always whilst you called him father, trusted and obeyed him. Would you spurn such a love for what the world has to offer ?

[savinderpalsingh 705]

Sangat Ji,

I became an amritdari/keshdari 10 years ago, but now want to cut my kesh, and become a sahajdari sikh.

I believe that all the Saheeds of Sikhi, were martyred for freedom, the freedom to be a Sikh, a Hindu or whatever. I don’t think anyone should be blackmailed into being forced to keep kesh, if one chooses to cut kesh – all the guilt tripping is wrong.

The Guru’s & Sikhs fought, died, lived for freedom. If one is motivated to become an amritdari then that person should have the freedom to pursue it. If 10 years later, as I am, wants to leave amrit, then why is it made so fundamentally difficult?

You can be a sahajdari and still jaap naam, do kirat, and donate 10% (which few amritdari’s do, I only did it one year).

And I don’t have to give my reasons for wanting to cut kesh to anyone, thank Waheguru I live in liberal democracy, not a theocratic-police state.

While I don’t wish to give my reasons, I want to solicit arguments for me keeping my kesh. Because in the big scheme of things, is it so wrong, to cut kesh, but still be a god fearing Sikh? When I die, if I don’t go to hell, or 84 lakh cycle, and by some miracle see the Guru’s & Saheeds, I will bow and say “I was weak and unworthy, I did what I could in my life, but I just can’t keep kesh out of fear, guilt, recrimination of fellow Sikhs. I choose to become an amritdari, and 10 years later I cut my kesh, I am a sinner, but whatever I am, I am still a Sikh, be it the most unworthy Sikh.”

Regards,

Anon,

Ps,

I am reasonably educated, intelligent person, and don’t believe cutting my hair will make me outcast, since I may take amrit again in the future. But if people say I am outcast, have commited a cardinal/treacherous sin – I almost feel like saying so be it! Yes I am a wretched manmukh, though all western political philosophy, science is derived by putting the bible and the Abrahamic Gods word aside, and using manmukhi to think of the answers to the fundamental questions of the human condition.

if you cut kesh you will loose gurus mohar hence you wont be a sikh anymore

sehajdhari means who has kept kesh and will continue to grow it slowly

not the modern version

people who cut kesh dont follow in any catagory of sikhs

you want to be an outcast, why not write a bedawa and give it to guru sahib !!

you will officialy be out

dhare kesh pahul bin bhekhi moorakh sikh mere darshan nahe te, paapi tyaage chit !!

[hsingh8963 373]

if you cut kesh you will loose gurus mohar hence you wont be a sikh anymore

sehajdhari means who has kept kesh and will continue to grow it slowly

not the modern version

people who cut kesh dont follow in any catagory of sikhs

you want to be an outcast, why not write a bedawa and give it to guru sahib !!

you will officialy be out

dhare kesh pahul bin bhekhi moorakh sikh mere darshan nahe te, paapi tyaage chit !!

dhare kesh pahul bin bhekhi moorakh sikh mere darshan nahe te, paapi tyaage chit !!

Where is this from.?!?

[savinderpalsingh 705]

dhare kesh pahul bin bhekhi moorakh sikh mere darshan nahe te, paapi tyaage chit !!

Where is this from.?!?

bhai nand lal ji rehatnama

[Guest kaur]

You probably look better keeping your turban and beard than without unless you've been blessed with good looking parents. Have a good look at them before you cut it off.

The very fact you're comparing sikhi to western democracy makes me think you know very little of sikh ideology (social, political and religious).

Personally I wouldn't trust a man or marry one if he cut his hair suddenly without a valid or good enough reason. Too fickle and weak.

[hsingh8963 373]

bhai nand lal ji rehatnama

Dhanvaad.

[hsingh8963 373]

bhai nand lal ji rehatnama

Hmmn Couldn't Locate It. Quote Please From The Source. :strong:

[buddasingh 210]

You solicit others to reason on your proposed action, but you don't want to provide a reason for that proposed action.

Of course a forum where you've voluntarily and anonymously started a thread asking for input is not a theocratic police state that you reference.

So what is your reason? You don't need to solicit arguments for keeping kesh. Kesh won't walk away. However, you will have to act to NOT keep kesh. What is your reason for that action? In THAT reasoning likely lies your answer.

You do provide anti-kesh arguments. If your arguments are remotely intelligent as you suggest, put them up against your reasons, in your own mind or here.

Sangat Ji,

...

While I don’t wish to give my reasons, I want to solicit arguments for me keeping my kesh.

..

Regards,

Anon,

...

[Jonny101 4,383]

Sangat Ji,

I became an amritdari/keshdari 10 years ago, but now want to cut my kesh, and become a sahajdari sikh.

I believe that all the Saheeds of Sikhi, were martyred for freedom, the freedom to be a Sikh, a Hindu or whatever. I don’t think anyone should be blackmailed into being forced to keep kesh, if one chooses to cut kesh – all the guilt tripping is wrong.

The Guru’s & Sikhs fought, died, lived for freedom. If one is motivated to become an amritdari then that person should have the freedom to pursue it. If 10 years later, as I am, wants to leave amrit, then why is it made so fundamentally difficult?

You can be a sahajdari and still jaap naam, do kirat, and donate 10% (which few amritdari’s do, I only did it one year).

And I don’t have to give my reasons for wanting to cut kesh to anyone, thank Waheguru I live in liberal democracy, not a theocratic-police state.

While I don’t wish to give my reasons, I want to solicit arguments for me keeping my kesh. Because in the big scheme of things, is it so wrong, to cut kesh, but still be a god fearing Sikh? When I die, if I don’t go to hell, or 84 lakh cycle, and by some miracle see the Guru’s & Saheeds, I will bow and say “I was weak and unworthy, I did what I could in my life, but I just can’t keep kesh out of fear, guilt, recrimination of fellow Sikhs. I choose to become an amritdari, and 10 years later I cut my kesh, I am a sinner, but whatever I am, I am still a Sikh, be it the most unworthy Sikh.”

Regards,

Anon,

Ps,

I am reasonably educated, intelligent person, and don’t believe cutting my hair will make me outcast, since I may take amrit again in the future. But if people say I am outcast, have commited a cardinal/treacherous sin – I almost feel like saying so be it! Yes I am a wretched manmukh, though all western political philosophy, science is derived by putting the bible and the Abrahamic Gods word aside, and using manmukhi to think of the answers to the fundamental questions of the human condition.

You are confusing a Patit for a Sahejdhari. Sahejdharis were historically non Sikhs who showed inclinations towards Sikhi and were on their way to becoming full Sikhs. What you are going to do will make you into a Patit and Kurahiti.

Everyone goes through moments of weaknesses. No one says being a Sikh is easy. It is the hardest religion of them all, but the spiritual rewards are also much much much more. Anyone can flow with the current, but a Sikh is one who goes against the current flow of this Kalyugi Dunya. You can choose this world which is temporary and Naashvant or you can chose your Guru who is the only one that can give you Mukti from this world. Why give up priceless diamonds for mere rocks? Maybe you might be thinking that you want to cut kesh and again keep kesh in 10 years, But have you seen ten years into the future? what happens if you die before that? will you want to leave this world as a Kurahiti and again go into Charassi Lakh Joonis?

You don't realize how rare this human life is. After a long time one gets to be born as a human. Guru Sahib repeatedly gives urgent calls to his Sikhs of how rare it is to be born as a human, and how important it is to utilize this precious gift for God realization. This Dunya for which you want to cut your Kesh will not help you when Jamdoots come for you. It is only going to be your Faith in Sikhi, the Rehit you kept, the Naam and Baani you did Jaap of that will help you in the end. Your sansaari mind can come up with all sorts of excuses and justifications for cutting your kesh, but Jamdoots will not listen to those Bahanaas one bit.