Do Shaheeds Get Mukhti (Liberation) ?

[Guest 2224]

Ever been to india and to historical gurduwaras? Ever seen any artifacts of the gurus? Well I have! This picture is Mala of the first guru. http://www.<banned site filter activated>/gurus/Guru%20Nanak/images/Dhilwan_Mala-_Sri_Guru_Nana.jpg

Guru hargobind sahibs Mala is at droli bhai pind near moga.

How does that prove that Guru Nanak used that mala to meditate? Exactly, anybody could just as simple have been wearing one! Doesn't mean they used one to do Simran. Why would a Guru even need a mala? Still a question that nobody can answer. So for either nobody will believe that it is really a mala of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's or it's just something they liked to wear.

[Guest Guest]

ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ ॥

Rāg soraṯẖ.

Raag Sorat'h:

ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥

Bẖūkẖe bẖagaṯ na kījai.

I am so hungry, I cannot perform devotional worship service.

ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥

Yėh mālā apnī lījai.

Here, Lord, take back Your mala.

Source - http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=656&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&fb=0&k=0

ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ॥

Bilāval.

Bilaaval:

ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਕੋਰੀ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਆਨੈ ਲੀਪਤ ਜੀਉ ਗਇਓ ॥

Niṯ uṯẖ korī gāgar ānai līpaṯ jī▫o ga▫i▫o.

Every day, he rises early, and brings a fresh clay pot; he passes his life embellishing and glazing it.

ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਿਓ ॥੧॥

Ŧānā bānā kacẖẖū na sūjẖai har har ras lapti▫o. ||1||

He does not think at all of worldly weaving; he is absorbed in the subtle essence of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||

ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਕਉਨੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਿਓ ॥

Hamāre kul ka▫une rām kahi▫o.

Who in our family has ever chanted the Name of the Lord?

ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Jab kī mālā la▫ī nipūṯe ṯab ṯe sukẖ na bẖa▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Ever since this worthless son of mine began chanting with his mala, we have had no peace at all! ||1||Pause||

Source - http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=856

Good post, it seems these manmat doers really love defending their malas.

[Guest Gupt]

That's fine if you do not need a mala, but saying an item which will help you in bhakti is manmatt is wrong as so many people have used a mala and achieved success through it. Like other users said before me here, it is said that some of our Guru jis had malas too. So it is actually gurmatt to use a mala if any of our Guru jis had one.

That's fine if you do not need a mala, but saying an item which will help you in bhakti is manmatt is wrong as so many people have used a mala and achieved success through it. Like other users said before me here, it is said that some of our Guru jis had malas too. So it is actually gurmatt to use a mala if any of our Guru jis had one.

No it's not wrong to say that its manmat to use a mala. Tell me who has achieved success through using a mala? A mahapurash? A sant? A Guru? Nobody here can prove a SINGLE PANGTI FROM DHAN DHAN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ WHERE A MALA IS ALLOWED, NOBODY HERE CAN PROVE THAT A GURU JI USED A MALA FOR THEIR BHAKTI... apart from barking out random gibberish like so and so did this bla bla bla without posting any factual evidence. That's why it's all manmat, and they have achieved nothing. If they seriously did achieve something then they wouldn't be sitting on an internet forum debating others. They clearly know its manmat to use a mala and therefore will try hard to defend it. lol.

[Guest Tarsem]

Mala is quite fine as its just a tool/minor aid at initial simran stages to help your surti drawn to the jaap, we need to see things in stages it will make quite a bit of sense if you see things in sikhi as spiritual development stages. Surely, mala can become dogmatic trap if one gets more attached with pointer rather whats pointer is pointing towards so caution is needed not have one's surti confined/attached to any thing made out of five elements/maya.

That's the thing. A mala would be ok for someone in the intial stages but what they don't realise is you're not going to use the male from the day you are born till the day you die. A time will come where you will have to rise above the mala. It's that what the others don't understand.

[Guest]

How does that prove that Guru Nanak used that mala to meditate? Exactly, anybody could just as simple have been wearing one! Doesn't mean they used one to do Simran. Why would a Guru even need a mala? Still a question that nobody can answer. So for either nobody will believe that it is really a mala of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's or it's just something they liked to wear.

So they wore it for fashion? Is that not manmat? Why would gurus wear a Mala for fashion? Shall I show you other gurus malas as well?

[Kira]

So they wore it for fashion? Is that not manmat? Why would gurus wear a Mala for fashion? Shall I show you other gurus malas as well?

I doubt Guru Sahib actually needed the Mala to concentrate, Their consciousness was already one with the lord afterall. I suppose it was a sort of tool to help the sangat and show that Guru Sahib was a Spiritual leader, In the case of the 6th Master the sword symbolized his worldly power as a warrior and the Mala represented his Spiritual authority over all, no harm in using a mala.

[Guest]

I doubt Guru Sahib actually needed the Mala to concentrate, Their consciousness was already one with the lord afterall. I suppose it was a sort of tool to help the sangat and show that Guru Sahib was a Spiritual leader, In the case of the 6th Master the sword symbolized his worldly power as a warrior and the Mala represented his Spiritual authority over all, no harm in using a mala.

The gurus did not need to use the malas but they carried them to show the sikh sangat.

[singhbj singh]

Good post, it seems these manmat doers really love defending their malas.

Both Gurbani verses state that Bhagat Kabir ji used a Mala.

No point arguing, if you want use it if not then don't.

[simran345]

Both Gurbani verses state that Bhagat Kabir ji used a Mala.

No point arguing, if you want use it if not then don't.

I think these pangatis of Bhagat Kabir ji were misunderstood by Gupt poster .

[abelsingh]

Personal inabilities is no benchmark. No where in Gurbani does it say malaa is wrong. Gurbani says how others have used it in the past were wrong making the mallaa worthless to them. Gurbani says as a girl walks and laughs with her friends and yet keeps her attention on the pitcher of water from spilling is how we Sikhs are to keep doing simran. These new aged Sikhs have no clue what Gurbani says. They make up their own theories on what Gurbani is saying. Calling them fanatics is actually giving them credit. They are beyond fanatics and i don't even know how to describe them. If counting is wrong in Gurmat. Then not counting should also apply to giving charity. Yet these same new breed will find the smallest coin in there pocket to give to charity. Why don't you close your eyes and place the note into the charity box? What are you worried about? God will take care of you.

Only Guru Sahib has the approval hammer to say who is a shaheed and what is the standard to earn this title. Again no veechar on Gurbani is done and all these wild and completely absurd teachings are forced on Sikhs by these new breed of Sikhs. They define Naam simran as only repeating his name by mouth. They dont even know a glimpse of what Naam is. Yet they use this word in every post they post here. Talk about being confused. If it was left up to them, everyone would be burning in hell because they get excited to see people fail and be in pain. I am completely disgusted by these people. Anyone who sacrifices the mind to Akal Purkh is a Shaheed. No one knows what was on the shaheed mind when he gave his life for Gurmat. Only Akal Purkh knows.

If you want to subject shaheeds to be bound in a human form. then give me your address because you must be Akal Purkh and only Akal Purkh will know the state of mind of the shaheed. I want to bow down to you and give you my head. Let me know if you are ready to receive it.

Next these new breed sikhs will say a prayer mat is wrong. Its a piece of cloth which prevents dust from getting on to the clothes of the reader and gutka sahib. And the malaa is a helping device to repeat his naam for some. And if you still dont understand. Show me where in Gurbani it says to wear clothing? Are you not comfortable of how God made you???? Gurbani says you came naked and you go naked. Bring your preacher and lets see how fast he starts undressing. And i will present Gurbani where it says there is no point of wearing clothing. Once presented you malaa haters better start undressing right away. I am not joking here. You want to stop others from meditating, be ready to face the consequences.

I think you must be mentally ill. The user created the topic simply to ask where is shaheedi referenced in Gurbani. He wasn't debating it. You on the other hand using your own cycnical views most likely created a fake account to hide your real identity so that your online reputation doesn't get ruined. There are real Gurmukhs out there who are doing the practical (YES since Gurbani is based around the practical, and not just barking like you) while they strive to meet God and you sit on your couch doing nindia behind a computer. Just like the rest, you cannot prove a mala is allowed according to Gurbani and therefore you continue doing the manmat.

What exactly are these "new breed Sikhs" as you speak of? As far as I'm aware they do parchar to encourage people to do Naam Simran, not sit on computers like you and do all the nindia you can. I'm sure if you actually read Gurbani you would know what is the consequence of doing nindia. We are not joking here either, you will be embarassed out of your pants if you ever dare to address yourself in front of the Gurmukhs inside the Gurdwara and try to argue there. But you will never have the courage to do that in front of a whole sangat in Maharajs' hazoori. What has coins and charity got to do with anything? You continue doing your calculations of Gurbani, counting this and that while Gurbani says nothing about that. And Gurmukhs will be reciting naam and reaching Vaheguru.

Mark my words you shall regret your actions for you have not experienced Naam in any shape or form. If you did you wouldn't be sitting behind the computer debating on an internet forum about what is right or wrong. The Guru's are laughing at you right now. Again you prove what a joke you are when you bring up the clothing topic, were any of the Guru's naked at any time? Which sant mahapurakhs do you see naked? Any other religious/historical figure in Sikhi? Just because you like doing that doesn't mean you have to encourage others with your manmat tools. I am not joking, if you're going to encourage others to do manmat then prepare to face the consequences for you shall be punished. That's why the Gurus laugh at you lol. So keep on hiding behind your fake account, it's the only thing that'll prevent you from ruining your online rep on your primary account.

SHOW EVERYBODY where in Gurbani is shaheedi referenced? Exactly you vile being, some low street boy who has never even heard Naam or had it pargat could just pick up an AK47 and started aiming it relentless everywhere, only to be killed and have a tip top moorakh like you saying 'Oh look the shaheed has gone to Sachkhand to meet Akal Purakh'. Not to say all Shaheed Singh's didn't have strong strict Gursikhi jeevani but someone like yourself is clearly defenceless when it comes to arguing about a Shaheed as Gurbani doesn't cover it. How are they sacrificing their mind to akal purakh when they are sacrificing something in the name of politics or the panth? However Puratan Shaheeds like the Chali Mukte, Banda Singh Bahadur, Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Mati Das, Bhai Sati Das, Bhai Dayal were obviously Shaheed for their Guru Ji and had already reserved a spot in the Sachkhand. There is a clear difference from Puratan and 1984 times when Shaheeds sacrificed themselves for the Guru. Not to say that other Shaheeds didn't sacrifice themselves for the Guru either when many did in chaurasi. Point remains that your a little nobody who is lost.

If anything it's people like you which I find disgusting, all the preachers and Gurmukhs carry out their parchar according to Gurmat, they use Gurbani pangtiya and perfectly explain them. You on the other hand like to show so much eerka only because you have achieved nothing what so ever. If you did then you wouldn't be sitting behind a computer. I am serious, go out there and present yourself in front of a Gurdwara, in front of the Sangat in Maharajs' hazoori and in front of the parcharaks/Gurmukhs and say everything you just said word for word. People like you think Sikhi is a joke and that it's ok to have your own manmat views but you should do Ardaas that may Guru Ji fix your cynical views.