Ram of Ramayana - is he worth it ?

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

just type in avtaars of vishnu in google

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Alot of fanatics tried to totally wipe out buddhism from India, of course they are try to bring all religons under the hinduism umbrella. I'm looking for other sources.

[Balwinder Singh]

Budhism is more popular religion in sri lanka,china and japan .....I dont think they know abt vishnu. Budha was totally different from hindu mythologies. Thats why shankracharya drove out all the budhists from India in early 800 AD( not sure abt century, but it was somewhere around) to revive hinduism again.

Ashoka was a great king who spread message of budha all around India and sri lanka.As soon as he died hindus started converting budhist people into hinduism again.

I read in it some history books.

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

Its irrelevant to discuss if ram was an avtaar of vishnu as sikhism has no regard whatsoever for hindu dieties and their ridiculous mythologies ( very poorly written bedtime stories ). Also the idea of god's incarnation runs contrary to sikh theology.

As khalistani veer said - This speaks volumes of Guru Gobinds 'respect' for devtas -

"mahai na ganaysai pritham manyao kisn bishn kabho na dhaiyoo"

Further proof of pita's respect :

Guru Gobind Singh emphatically disapproves idol worshippers in his Zafarnamah, the epistle of victory to the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb. He critically identifies the failed Hindu hill chiefs as “idol worshipers” and calls himself an “idol breaker.” (keh uoo boot parastando man boot shikan.) - Idols of Ram, Krishna, Vishnu.

" Ramayana defends the autocratic rule of kings against the people, their imperial expansion by invading other weak kingdoms, exploitation of the poor by the rich, oppression of lower castes, aggression of civilized non-tribal communities against primitive tribal communities, exploitation of women, superstitious beliefs against rational thinking, fathers' domination over sons, elder brother's superiority over younger brothers and so on," the author says."

Why doesn't anybody has anything to say abt Ram's great deeds and his brother's 'heroic' act of

cutting a helpless woman's nose !!

[Ryu Hayabusa]

SatwantBeantKehar,

So what is YOUR opinion of Raam and Krishan?

[Ryu Hayabusa]

This Shabad is by Bhatt Kal in Svaiyay Mehl 5 on Pannaa 1390

sqjuig qY mwixE CilE bil bwvn BwieE ]

sathajug thai maaniou shhaliou bal baavan bhaaeiou ||

In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

qRyqY qY mwixE rwmu rGuvMsu khwieE ]

thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuva(n)s kehaaeiou ||

In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

duAwpuir ik®sn murwir kMsu ikrqwrQu kIE ]

dhuaapur kirasan muraar ka(n)s kirathaarathh keeou ||

In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

augRsYx kau rwju ABY Bgqh jn dIE ]

ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou ||

You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.

kiljuig pRmwxu nwnk guru AMgdu Amru khwieE ]

kalijug pramaan naanak gur a(n)gadh amar kehaaeiou ||

In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.

sRI gurU rwju Aibclu Atlu Awid puriK PurmwieE ]7]

sree guroo raaj abichal attal aadh purakh furamaaeiou ||7||

The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7||

[Pheena]

As khalistani veer said - This speaks volumes of Guru Gobinds 'respect' for devtas -

"mahai na ganaysai pritham manyao kisn bishn kabho na dhaiyoo"

Further proof of pita's respect :

Guru Gobind Singh emphatically disapproves idol worshippers in his Zafarnamah, the epistle of victory to the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb. He critically identifies the failed Hindu hill chiefs as “idol worshipers” and calls himself an “idol breaker.” (keh uoo boot parastando man boot shikan.) - Idols of Ram, Krishna, Vishnu.

" Ramayana defends the autocratic rule of kings against the people, their imperial expansion by invading other weak kingdoms, exploitation of the poor by the rich, oppression of lower castes, aggression of civilized non-tribal communities against primitive tribal communities, exploitation of women, superstitious beliefs against rational thinking, fathers' domination over sons, elder brother's superiority over younger brothers and so on," the author says."

Why doesn't anybody has anything to say abt Ram's great deeds and his brother's 'heroic' act of

cutting a helpless woman's nose !!

Your quote of the Chopai Sahib has been given a second interpetation in the link below

http://www.khalis.net/SikhAwareness/Audio/Choapai.mp3

Be it that its your choice to accept the interpetation that best suits your mind and heart.

As Raam is known as Maryada Parshothum, Krishna is known as Leela Parshothum. They have their own individual personalities that reflect their teachings.

We are eager to judge the actions of someone in a Different Age refrencing it to our current Age. But we haven't moved forwards in equality of Women even in Sikhi as it should've happened. Guru Nanak dev ji expressed his voice in equality to the Women, but where is it actually practiced?? In the Harmandir Sahib Women are not allowed to be Granthis?? Where is the Maryada that does not allow Women to perform Seva inside Harmandir Sahib?? What Maryada is this? Does it not contradict the Equality given by Guru Nanak Dev ji?

How does Ramayan defend those who invade other weak kingdoms? There are infinite books that are Pro and Anti _________. If it so because Krishan Arguably forced Arjuna into fighting the battle against his cousins, then you need to understand the Leela of Krishna and it cannot be such from reading the interpetations of Authors...but thru your own self-discovery.

What should I say about Raam, who i have not known thru my internal wisdom. I shall not Slander Lakshman, or Raam or Rawan for it was their war, their mentatlity, their decision, not mine. Who am i to judge their decisions? Their Teachings reflect their Age of Coming. The Teachings of Krishna reflecte that Age. The Teachings of Guru Nanak dev ji, reflects this Age.

What Measuring Stick should we use to Judge the decisions they made in their Age, in-relations to the current Age? We Jump to conclusions too quickly when we read something about other religions. Be not so quick to judge, but keep in your heart the desire to know the Full Truth. Be Nuetral. The words of the SGGS are not easily understood as we make them. Th

at Truth must be within us to feel the Truth spoken by Guru Nanak dev ji, We must Tune our Minds and Hearts to the Same Channel of Conciousness from which the Gurus Sung the shabads. When the Truth has surrounded you within and out with its envelope of divine wisdom then surely the Real Raam and the Real Krishna will become a part your experience. Until then leave all conclusions open.

[Khalsa_starr]

I often wondered about this myslelf. I did a remake on the ancient tale of "Ramayana" about one year ago, i called it "the new Ramayana". It was the same story only it took place in 2100. Yeah, i know it sounds wierd, but it WAS a great story, it was so succesful that i even started a sequel.

As i was researching the tale, i came across troubleing parts. Why did Rama throw out, or banish his wife because of what other people thought. When i did my remake i had a hard time with this issue.

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

"Say if Krishan were the Ocean of Mercy, why should the hunter's arrow have struck him? If he can save other families, why did he destroy his own? Say why did he who called himself the eternal and the unconceived, enter into the womb of Devaki? Why did he who had no father or mother call Vasudev his father?" (33 Swayyas, no.14.) "Why call Shiv God and why speak of Brahma as God? God is not Ram Chander, Krishan, or Vishnu who you suppose to be lords of the world. Sukhdev, Parasar, and Vyas erred in abandoning the One God and worshipping many gods. All have set up false religions; I in every way believe that there is but One God. (33 Swayyas, no.15)

This fits with the teaching of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Saint Kabir writes: "Beings like Hanuman and Garuda, Indra and Brahma know not, O God Your attributes. The four Vedas, Simritis and Purans, Vishnu and Laksmi know them not. Says Kabir, whoever touches God's feet and seeks Divine shelter shall not wander in reincarnations." (Kabir, Raag Dhanasari). He also clarifies the use of Ram in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. "Kabir, call him Ram who is All-Present; we must make distinction between two 'Rams'. The One Ram is contained in All. Ram Chander is only contained in one thing, himself." (Kabir, Sloks). Ram as a name for God is used by the Sikhs, and as Sunnya (Void), Allah and others. But Ram as Ram Chander is only a created being. Sikhs worship only the One God, and do not associate God with any created being.

Ray hubasa ,

The bani that you quoted is of bhatts and it is in sharp contrast with Guru's own words as well as those of bhagat namdev and kabeer that i have quoted earlier.

>

Try discussing the story with non Indians and see how disgusted they will feel when they know that someone who kicked out his pregnant wife is god to one sixth humanity.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"This fits with the teaching of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Saint Kabir writes: "Beings like Hanuman and Garuda, Indra and Brahma know not, O God Your attributes. The four Vedas, Simritis and Purans, Vishnu and Laksmi know them not. Says Kabir, whoever touches God's feet and seeks Divine shelter shall not wander in reincarnations." (Kabir, Raag Dhanasari). He also clarifies the use of Ram in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. "Kabir, call him Ram who is All-Present; we must make distinction between two 'Rams'. The One Ram is contained in All. Ram Chander is only contained in one thing, himself." (Kabir, Sloks). Ram as a name for God is used by the Sikhs, and as Sunnya (Void), Allah and others. But Ram as Ram Chander is only a created being. Sikhs worship only the One God, and do not associate God with any created being.

"

:wub:

[Pheena]

This fits with the teaching of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Saint Kabir writes: "Beings like Hanuman and Garuda, Indra and Brahma know not, O God Your attributes. The four Vedas, Simritis and Purans, Vishnu and Laksmi know them not. Says Kabir, whoever touches God's feet and seeks Divine shelter shall not wander in reincarnations." (Kabir, Raag Dhanasari). He also clarifies the use of Ram in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. "Kabir, call him Ram who is All-Present; we must make distinction between two 'Rams'. The One Ram is contained in All. Ram Chander is only contained in one thing, himself." (Kabir, Sloks). Ram as a name for God is used by the Sikhs, and as Sunnya (Void), Allah and others. But Ram as Ram Chander is only a created being. Sikhs worship only the One God, and do not associate God with any created being.

So the question is who knows the Attributes of God the infinite, timeless, omnipotent Creator?

Shaasters like vedas, purans..etc can know?? Can the mind Verbalize the Attributes completly or perhaps capture them into words??