Beadbi Ramgarhia Sikh temple .. Again !!!

[Ranjeet01]

21 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

If only it were so simple. These days many Gurdwaras will cater to anything for money - even holding weddings on the sly with nonSikhs - and advising the families on how to subvert any resistance to this by other Sikhs. It loks like they are ever adaptive to grab onto niche markets that keep the money coming in.  

 

They are so desperate for money, that if they starved of their usual sources of income, they'd start getting 'creative' to make up for it. So the above approach might just make things worse?

The fact that they are getting caught doing these sly activities is a start.

The pardhans of these gurdwaras need to be hit in the pocket.

It is important to make it difficult for these types.

A system needs to be devised,  some A-B testing. Need to figure our what works and what doesn't.

[dallysingh101]

48 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The fact that they are getting caught doing these sly activities is a start.

The pardhans of these gurdwaras need to be hit in the pocket.

It is important to make it difficult for these types.

A system needs to be devised,  some A-B testing. Need to figure our what works and what doesn't.

What if the reality is that we are always going to have 'renegade' Gudwaras (forgive the term), even more so given the legal protection the will get here in the UK? 

[Ranjeet01]

41 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

What if the reality is that we are always going to have 'renegade' Gudwaras (forgive the term), even more so given the legal protection the will get here in the UK? 

We will never have a perfect system but there needs to be improvements.

We are a very pragmatic people when it comes to the crunch. The obstacle is the way. Think progress not perfection. 

[BhForce]

On 4/20/2017 at 4:32 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Just looking st the name of the Gurdwara, you can tell it's not legit. (I'd like to see those 3% or less Brahmin Sikhs make a "Brahmin Sikh Temple", and see how everyone else reacts). Jatts and Khatris make-up a larger percentage of Sikhs than the Ramgharias, (and if we include the uncounted Vanjaria Sikhs the population goes up the roof), but I've never heard of a Jatt Gurdwara, a Khatri Gurdwara, or a Vanjaria Gurdwara, (unless the last one opens these Gurdwaras in their own social clubs). As long as you let these people make their own caste-gurdwara we will only have us vs them, and not a unity among all castes. 

Agreed. You simply cannot have a Gurdwara named for a specific caste, tribe, race, etc. Guru Sahib never made such caste-based gurdwaras, so on what basis are we doing so? Gurdwara NRI Sahib, Gurdwara White Sikh Sahib, Gurdwara Punjabi Sikh Sahib, Gurdwara African Sikh Sahib?

I believe there was some guidance on this issue from Akal Takhat (if not a hukumnama, then just sandesh). It was something on the order of, 1) no more gurdwaras are to be constructed without permission from Akal Takhat--demonstration of need is required, don't open up multiple unnecessary gurdwaras in a village or neighborhood. 2) No caste-based gurdwaras. 3) No gurdwaras named after a personage without reason (i.e., it's OK to have, say a Gurdwara Baba Deep Singh or Gurdwara Jassa Singh Ramgarh in the birthplace or other places associated with them, but not for the sake of hint-hint, wink-wink caste-based gurdwara. I hate the way some gurdwaras want to piggy-back off the lives of exalted personalities without there being any real connection there. Gurdwara Dasmesh Darbar does not mean that gurdwara has some special ability to channel the ideals of the 10th Guru Sahib.

I realize that some gurdwaras may have committee members all of a single caste, perhaps because the founders were a guy, and his brother-in-laws, and their brother-in-laws, which would all be of a single caste/group. One hopes that as time passes, the caste-based nature of the gurdwara will decline. But once you put the caste/group name in the name of the gurdwara itself, you're fixing the caste-based nature of the place in stone. It's sort of like monas and gurdwara committees: It's true that at one time, all or most committees were all mona, simply because there weren't any kesadharis to do committee duty. As time went on, monas were replaced gradually with kesadharis. But that gradual change could not have happened if the very name of the gurdwara had been Gurdwara Monian.

What we need to have is fewer gurdwaras within small geographical areas and all the Sikhs of that area coming together into a single gurdwara. They ought to simply be named after the locality in which they are based. Gurdwara Glasgow Sahib. Gurdwara Douglaston Sahib. Gurdwara Sector 31 Sahib, Chandigarh.

One problem, though, is that the incumbent jathedars have ruined the prestige of the Akal Takhat, so people are less willing to listen to it anymore.

[Guest AjeetSinghPunjabi]

Get Guru granth Sahib ji's saroop out of those temples, by force if necessary 

also somehow make it declare that its not a gurudwara (anymore) unfortunately

[DSG]

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What do they say when people hook them up about this? 

We hooked them up , and spoke to the trustees .... one was neutral and very pleasant guy , 2 were Amrit Dhari , even though agreed with us ( No meat alcohol should be served in the hall) but wanted to wait for the decision of the members . When queried about members , that it is a Gurudwara not a Club , they were not willing to convince the management , but rather wait on "members decision" .

I think if we keep quiet , consciously knowing their response , they will have a field day and keep making wrong decisions and see the Gurudawara not as a Gurudawara where our Guru resides , but a mere building to make profit , but profit for whom? ( is another topic /food for thought). I appreciate bills , building maintenance etcc cost money and need funding but I also believe if Guru Maharaj Ji;s message is portrayed with love and compassion with no personal gain , aim to share the Guru's messge whoever walks in to the Gurudwara so one takes something away which can enhance ones spiritual journey , then with Guru Ji's kirpa there will be no shortcomings. ( AT LEAST TRY !!!!!! ) ( Their aim should be at least  "try" sharing and spreading sikhi and run the Gurudwara according to Gurmat principles ).  

 

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You can write all you want, it will fall on deaf ears. What is needed is to suck out the profit from these ventures. There is only one language they understand and that is the language of money, hit them in the pocket.

Up to an extend i agree , and have seen that , they are not bothered, simply because we have not enough "people" behind the cause.As i mentioned before its a numbers game , bombard them  with phone calls, letters , messages at least then they'll know the Sangat ( where ever they reside and not just there so called "members" or their relatives are responding to them) are awake and they cannot just willingly do as they please , may make them think twice and change for the better. I believe the power is in the sangat and with Guru Maharaj ji's kirpa.

 

Quote

Get Guru granth Sahib ji's saroop out of those temples, by force if necessary 

also somehow make it declare that its not a gurudwara (anymore) unfortunately

Absolutely agree . then they can make as many members as they like ( obviously this should be the last resort though)

 

[Ranjeet01]

On 01/05/2017 at 3:26 PM, DSG said:

We hooked them up , and spoke to the trustees .... one was neutral and very pleasant guy , 2 were Amrit Dhari , even though agreed with us ( No meat alcohol should be served in the hall) but wanted to wait for the decision of the members . When queried about members , that it is a Gurudwara not a Club , they were not willing to convince the management , but rather wait on "members decision" .

I think if we keep quiet , consciously knowing their response , they will have a field day and keep making wrong decisions and see the Gurudawara not as a Gurudawara where our Guru resides , but a mere building to make profit , but profit for whom? ( is another topic /food for thought). I appreciate bills , building maintenance etcc cost money and need funding but I also believe if Guru Maharaj Ji;s message is portrayed with love and compassion with no personal gain , aim to share the Guru's messge whoever walks in to the Gurudwara so one takes something away which can enhance ones spiritual journey , then with Guru Ji's kirpa there will be no shortcomings. ( AT LEAST TRY !!!!!! ) ( Their aim should be at least  "try" sharing and spreading sikhi and run the Gurudwara according to Gurmat principles ).  

 

Up to an extend i agree , and have seen that , they are not bothered, simply because we have not enough "people" behind the cause.As i mentioned before its a numbers game , bombard them  with phone calls, letters , messages at least then they'll know the Sangat ( where ever they reside and not just there so called "members" or their relatives are responding to them) are awake and they cannot just willingly do as they please , may make them think twice and change for the better. I believe the power is in the sangat and with Guru Maharaj ji's kirpa.

 

Absolutely agree . then they can make as many members as they like ( obviously this should be the last resort though)

 

DSG

Our people are not that big into letter writing. I know that from personal experience.

 

[DSG]

Quote

Our people are not that big into letter writing. I know that from personal experience.

LOL 

[jashb]

I am sorry to hear of the difficulties that you and the sangat of this Gurdwara are facing from your corrupt Gurdwara committee. That does not mean to say, however, that I am at all surprised.

There are some critical questions that the sangat of this Gurdwara need to ask of their corrupt committee as well as themselves.

* Who gave these corrupt committee members who have no respect for Guru Ji the undeserved power control and authority to take decisions in unashamed spite of Guru Ji when without the presence of Guru Ji this Gurdwara would not even exist?

* Did these corrupt committee members even bother to consult Guru Ji to see what Guru Ji says about their proposal before they made their decision, or did they completely neglect/ignore, and ride roughshod over Guru Ji's authority in order to open a Meat and Sharaab hall regardless for their own unscrupulous and sinful financial gain while blatantly violating Sikhi Rehat?

* Have these corrupt committee members even bothered to apply Sikhi to their own lives? Do they maintain Sikhi Rehat? Are they and their family members in Sikhi Saroop? Are they even able to recite Nitnem?

* Do these corrupt committee members refrain from Alcohol and Kuttha Maas in line with Sikhi Rehat or are they themselves committing the very same transgressions they wish to legitimise by enforcing them on Gurdwara premises?

* Is this not the same so called "Ramgarhia" caste named Gurdwara where a disgracefully casteist President/Secretary, whose mouth should have been washed out from the inside with soap, cursed a member of the sangat with an abhorrent term used to denigrate a person whose heritage is of a so called "low caste"?

* Why has the sangat knowingly and willingly accepted the use of a blatant caste term to name this Gurdwara? Do they explicitly or tacitly support the superiority of the so called "Ramgarhia" caste?

* Does the sangat of this Gurdwara fail to comprehend the hypocrisy and absurdity of its commemorating under the so called "Ramgarhia" caste name Vaisakhi 1699 - the very event in which Guru Ji in contrast to their repugnant caste name destroyed the illogical hindu caste system to create on the orders of Paramatma the casteless Khalsa Panth to which they falsely pledge allegiance?

* What use is it for the sangat of this Gurdwara to claim to be Amritdhari or Sikhs at all when they reject Guru Ji's clear injunction against the illogical hindu caste system? Are the sangat of this Gurdwara any more than hindus disgracefully disguised in the garb of Sikhs of the Guru?

* Will the sangat of this Gurdwara who are eligible to vote in its elections per its casteist constitution ever enforce casteless Sikhi Rehat?

* Will the sangat of this Gurdwara continue to defy/neglect/ignore casteless Sikhi Rehat for no apparent aim other than to preserve the convenience of their corrupt control over the the finances of this business they contemptuously run on the name of the very destroyer of idols and caste like they have continously and shamelessly done now for the past five decades?

* Will the sangat of this Gurdwara now do the honorable thing and admit that they reject Vaisakhi 1699, and consequently declare that they are not Sikhs of the Guru? Will they now return Guru Ji's Saroop, take down Nishaan Sahib, and revert to praying to impotent useless hindu idols like vishwakarma like hindus in pursuit of casteist illogical hindu ideology that the abundant majority of them knowingly and willingly cling to?

I say that the actions of this corrupt committee are exactly what is needed. Needed, that is, to kick sense into the sangat members' heads.

 

 

[BhForce]

46 minutes ago, jashb said:

* Who gave these corrupt committee members who have no respect for Guru Ji the undeserved power control and authority to take decisions in unashamed spite of Guru Ji when without the presence of Guru Ji this Gurdwara would not even exist?

Well, it's not as if the extension of Sikh Sangat and creation of new Gurdwaras into the West was directed by a central authority (Akal Takhat) as in the case of the Vatican and the Catholics. Rather, Sikhs came of their own initiative, and also created Gurdwaras of their own initiative. Unfortunately, many of our people who originally came cut off their hair and also were addicted to alcohol. They became the committee heads, because that's just the kind of people that were available. There was no rehitvan, Amritdhari alternative available.

So, who gave them this power? They themselves did. We should think ourselves lucky that there's even some semblance of maryada in the darbar halls: Guru Sahib on throne and sangat on the floor. Otherwise, they would have put sangat in pews, and Guru Sahib as a small book to be carried in the granthi's hands to plopped on a lectern.