I feel like I am standing at crossroads of life. A burden on my heart haunts me ..

[Guest]

On 1/30/2017 at 6:58 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

Nothing he mentioned said anything about him being celibate. He says that he wants to have kids and whatnot. Honestly don't think he's mentally strong enough at current moment for celibacy if his mind keeps going all over the place without the orientation problems, add that complication and he will be depressed without extremely high commitment. If he married an innocent girl and added her to the equation it would make his life totally difficult not just for himself but everyone else as well. 

@AjeetSinghPunjabi The only thing I can ask you to do at this point is keep following Gurmat to the best of your ability, with Bhagti and Amrit Vela, so even if you do fall; you won't go complete rock bottom, and DON'T go to clubs and all that, regardless if your straight or gay, as these clubs will only brainwash your jeevan to an extent that is even worse than if you hypothetically were staring at porn 24/7.

Veeeji,  and nowhere i said i am sleeping here and there. Well since u wondered, let me say i m 27 and a virgin in all possible ways. 

Yes, my idea is of amritvela and gurbani, i always desire to feel connected to guru in someway or other even if its a mere kada on my hand. 

Fighting all odds, i will try to establish an amritvela. And simran.

I wonder wat happens if one commits something as supposedly sinful as gay sex and amritvela and nam simran together. 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

4 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Veeeji,  and nowhere i said i am sleeping here and there. Well since u wondered, let me say i m 27 and a virgin in all possible ways. 

Yes, my idea is of amritvela and gurbani, i always desire to feel connected to guru in someway or other even if its a mere kada on my hand. 

Fighting all odds, i will try to establish an amritvela. And simran.

I wonder wat happens if one commits something as supposedly sinful as gay sex and amritvela and nam simran together. 

The term celibate relates to a commitment; while Virginity is related to the current situation, also even if you were straight you shouldn't be going to clubs anyway. Your hypothetical question has no answer, each act is judged individually in the house of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, you will if you have Karmic Debt have to pay all your Karmic Debt, unless you get Guru's grace. You will rewarded for your Simran/Amritvela but separately will have to be punished for Kaam, the 2 are not mutually exclusive, and we are not Hindus that believe in such things.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

4 hours ago, Preeet said:

Im pretty sure everyone is bisexual to some extent anyways, since it is so silly for someone to say that they only can find love with a certain gender, now is that true love? 

I'm straight completely, have never wanted a Kaamic relationship ever with another man.

[singhbj singh]

Human Sexual Variants

In the Sikh scriptural literature we find use of six words – nipounsak, kaapurakh, baanjh, sanddhi, hijra and khusra – that reflect on the abnormalities in sexual state of the individual. The words baanjh and sanddhi are used in relation to females, and the other four mainly for males and sometimes for both sexes. The word nipounsak has been used in Akal Ustat and by Bhai Gurdas and the word kaapurakh has been used by Guru Arjan. The word hijra has been used by Bhai Gurdas. The word khusra has been used by Guru Nanak, Bhagat Kabir and Bhai Gurdas.

Let us now look at some quotes that may help us grasp the drift of Sikh view and provide any clues regarding societal attitudes towards or about persons who would have been labeled nipounsak, kaapurakh, baanjh, sanddhi, hijra or khusra.

Dasam Granth says in Akal Ustat that men, women and nipounsak, all have been created by God the same way as he has created several other living and sentient beings. The verse does identify nipounsak humans created by divine will as separate from and in addition to men and women, suggesting recognition of existence of a third sex other than male/female binary.

Bhai Gurdas has used the word purakh nipounsak for males in conjunction with baanjh and baanjh badhoo in two separate compositions. This suggests that purakh nipounsak [and not nipounsak alone] is the equivalent of baanjh among females, leaving the word nipounsak as an asexual expression for a third sex/gender. Witness the quotes: a purakh nipounsak does not know the joy of having progeny nor is a baanjh able to envision the peace that love of children brings. In a kabit he writes that neither baanjh badhoo [barren wife] nor purakh nipounsak can have children, asking how you can produce butter by churning water; both indicating that only purakh nipounsak corresponds to baanjh or baanjh wife i.e. word baanjh is for females but nipounsak needs to be qualified to be applied to the male gender.

The interpretation of the word kaapurakh presents relatively little complexity. It essentially is a word used for a male seen as being low, worthless, timid, impotent or inadequate man. It has been used only once in gurbani in a verse that says: ‘The servant of har does not associate with faithless cynic. One is in the clutches of vice, while the other is in love with Raam. It would be like the illusion of a rider riding a decked up horse, or a kaapurakh caressing a woman or tying an ox by the noose and trying to milk it or riding a cow to chase a tiger’ – all futile exercises.

Let us now look at the sense that the word hijra has been used to convey. We find that hijra has only been used by Bhai Gurdas twice in his vaars. In one instance the word comes in the title of pauri 11, vaar 36 which says: guru heen hijra hai – hijras are they who have no Guru or in obverse one who does not have the guidance of a guru is as bad as a hijra – such a man is just spinning wheels.
Then in another pauri he says: ‘Many are blind and many one-eyed. Many are small eyed and many suffer from night-blindness. Many are with clipped noses, many deaf and many are earless. Many are suffering from goiter, and many have tumors in their organs. Many are maimed ones, bald, without hands and stricken with leprosy. Many are suffering for being disabled, cripple and hunchback. Many khusray, many heejray, many are dumb and many stammer, – – away from the perfect Guru they will all remain in the cycle of transmigration.’ In this verse by Bhai Gurdas has mentioned khusras and hijras with those human beings who had either congenital defects or who otherwise suffered from an incurable or difficult to cure condition. In other words these people were seen as suffering from some manifest or internal malady or inadequacy. His concluding line may imply that many of these people in those times may have been drifting to various gods and goddesses and suggests that absent the true Guru, none of them could achieve liberation. 
Guru Nanak has used the word khusra, when he asks: what can deep water do to a fish or the vast sky do to a bird or cold do to a stone or married life [ghar vaas, grihast] to a khusra? He goes on to give many more examples in verses that follow and concludes that a fool similarly has a nature that does not discern wisdom and everything that he speaks is useless and a waste. This suggests that the Guru has likened state of grihasti in the life of a khusra as of no consequence the same way as the depth of water is to fish or expanse of sky is to a bird or cold weather is to stone.

A verse by Kabir that ‘if celibacy could have saved, why have khusras not obtained the state of supreme dignity’ also leaves the position of khusras in the realm of speculation. It seems that khusras as a group were bereft of any exemplars. Even the accounts of harem guards are more about the illicit liaisons of the rich rather than about the deeds of khusras as committed protectors of the virtues of harem ladies.

For women the words – baanjh and sanddhi – have been used to reflect either their inability to bear children or physical or psychological abhorrence to sex. An example of a verse using baanjh has been cited earlier. Witness some verses using the word sanddhi: ‘A sanddhi woman cannot have a son, nor can women enjoy sex with khusras.’ In another verse Bhai Gurdas is empathetic about infertility of sanddhis: ‘All the queens conceive and one or two come out to be barren. For this, no king or queen is to be blamed; all this is due to the writ of previous births.’ In yet another composition he has included sanddhi along with several others who have demerits; witness: ‘Millions of frogs, cranes, conches, desert cacti plants, camel, thorns (javas) black snakes; silk cotton trees, owls, ruddy sheldrakes, ladles, elephants, barren women; stones, crows, patients, donkeys, black blankets; seedless sesame plants, castor, colocynths; buds, oleanders are there (in the world). I have vices/inadequacies of all these in me.

Bhai Gurdas also says: ‘Wearing five garments one may assume the garb of a male person. He may have beautiful beard and moustaches and a slim body. Wielder of a hundred weapons he may be counted among prominent knights. He may be an adept courtier and widely known throughout the country. But without masculinity, of what use is he to a woman?’

From the above broad presentation we can deduce that in Sikhi grihast is created only by the union of man and woman. There is no suggestion that some people were created homosexual abhorring heterosexual relations. Even celibate sanyasi secretly pined for women. There were persons who were born other than man and woman, and there were men and women who suffered from sexual inadequacies or malfunctions but impotence and infertility were seen as a writ of past deeds. Same sex adulation was not an expression of sexual desire for the person of the same sex – it embellished friendship. 

We know very little if at all about hijras and khusras and their existence in early Sikh social and religious life. Hijras and khusras among Sikhs could have been living in the same kind of anonymity then as they do today. The tenor of these verses therefore should not be read as condemnatory or demeaning but possibly the quotes say the way things were then – these people were stigmatized and the hijras or their gurus obviously could not hold favor with the Sikhs subsumed in devotion of their Gurus and life of grihasti.

Source - http://www.sikhsandsociety.org/sex-marriages-lgbt-issues/

[Guest]

3 hours ago, singhbj singh said:

Human Sexual Variants

In the Sikh scriptural literature we find use of six words – nipounsak, kaapurakh, baanjh, sanddhi, hijra and khusra – that reflect on the abnormalities in sexual state of the individual. The words baanjh and sanddhi are used in relation to females, and the other four mainly for males and sometimes for both sexes. The word nipounsak has been used in Akal Ustat and by Bhai Gurdas and the word kaapurakh has been used by Guru Arjan. The word hijra has been used by Bhai Gurdas. The word khusra has been used by Guru Nanak, Bhagat Kabir and Bhai Gurdas.

Let us now look at some quotes that may help us grasp the drift of Sikh view and provide any clues regarding societal attitudes towards or about persons who would have been labeled nipounsak, kaapurakh, baanjh, sanddhi, hijra or khusra.

Dasam Granth says in Akal Ustat that men, women and nipounsak, all have been created by God the same way as he has created several other living and sentient beings. The verse does identify nipounsak humans created by divine will as separate from and in addition to men and women, suggesting recognition of existence of a third sex other than male/female binary.

Bhai Gurdas has used the word purakh nipounsak for males in conjunction with baanjh and baanjh badhoo in two separate compositions. This suggests that purakh nipounsak [and not nipounsak alone] is the equivalent of baanjh among females, leaving the word nipounsak as an asexual expression for a third sex/gender. Witness the quotes: a purakh nipounsak does not know the joy of having progeny nor is a baanjh able to envision the peace that love of children brings. In a kabit he writes that neither baanjh badhoo [barren wife] nor purakh nipounsak can have children, asking how you can produce butter by churning water; both indicating that only purakh nipounsak corresponds to baanjh or baanjh wife i.e. word baanjh is for females but nipounsak needs to be qualified to be applied to the male gender.

The interpretation of the word kaapurakh presents relatively little complexity. It essentially is a word used for a male seen as being low, worthless, timid, impotent or inadequate man. It has been used only once in gurbani in a verse that says: ‘The servant of har does not associate with faithless cynic. One is in the clutches of vice, while the other is in love with Raam. It would be like the illusion of a rider riding a decked up horse, or a kaapurakh caressing a woman or tying an ox by the noose and trying to milk it or riding a cow to chase a tiger’ – all futile exercises.

Let us now look at the sense that the word hijra has been used to convey. We find that hijra has only been used by Bhai Gurdas twice in his vaars. In one instance the word comes in the title of pauri 11, vaar 36 which says: guru heen hijra hai – hijras are they who have no Guru or in obverse one who does not have the guidance of a guru is as bad as a hijra – such a man is just spinning wheels.
Then in another pauri he says: ‘Many are blind and many one-eyed. Many are small eyed and many suffer from night-blindness. Many are with clipped noses, many deaf and many are earless. Many are suffering from goiter, and many have tumors in their organs. Many are maimed ones, bald, without hands and stricken with leprosy. Many are suffering for being disabled, cripple and hunchback. Many khusray, many heejray, many are dumb and many stammer, – – away from the perfect Guru they will all remain in the cycle of transmigration.’ In this verse by Bhai Gurdas has mentioned khusras and hijras with those human beings who had either congenital defects or who otherwise suffered from an incurable or difficult to cure condition. In other words these people were seen as suffering from some manifest or internal malady or inadequacy. His concluding line may imply that many of these people in those times may have been drifting to various gods and goddesses and suggests that absent the true Guru, none of them could achieve liberation. 
Guru Nanak has used the word khusra, when he asks: what can deep water do to a fish or the vast sky do to a bird or cold do to a stone or married life [ghar vaas, grihast] to a khusra? He goes on to give many more examples in verses that follow and concludes that a fool similarly has a nature that does not discern wisdom and everything that he speaks is useless and a waste. This suggests that the Guru has likened state of grihasti in the life of a khusra as of no consequence the same way as the depth of water is to fish or expanse of sky is to a bird or cold weather is to stone.

A verse by Kabir that ‘if celibacy could have saved, why have khusras not obtained the state of supreme dignity’ also leaves the position of khusras in the realm of speculation. It seems that khusras as a group were bereft of any exemplars. Even the accounts of harem guards are more about the illicit liaisons of the rich rather than about the deeds of khusras as committed protectors of the virtues of harem ladies.

For women the words – baanjh and sanddhi – have been used to reflect either their inability to bear children or physical or psychological abhorrence to sex. An example of a verse using baanjh has been cited earlier. Witness some verses using the word sanddhi: ‘A sanddhi woman cannot have a son, nor can women enjoy sex with khusras.’ In another verse Bhai Gurdas is empathetic about infertility of sanddhis: ‘All the queens conceive and one or two come out to be barren. For this, no king or queen is to be blamed; all this is due to the writ of previous births.’ In yet another composition he has included sanddhi along with several others who have demerits; witness: ‘Millions of frogs, cranes, conches, desert cacti plants, camel, thorns (javas) black snakes; silk cotton trees, owls, ruddy sheldrakes, ladles, elephants, barren women; stones, crows, patients, donkeys, black blankets; seedless sesame plants, castor, colocynths; buds, oleanders are there (in the world). I have vices/inadequacies of all these in me.

Bhai Gurdas also says: ‘Wearing five garments one may assume the garb of a male person. He may have beautiful beard and moustaches and a slim body. Wielder of a hundred weapons he may be counted among prominent knights. He may be an adept courtier and widely known throughout the country. But without masculinity, of what use is he to a woman?’

From the above broad presentation we can deduce that in Sikhi grihast is created only by the union of man and woman. There is no suggestion that some people were created homosexual abhorring heterosexual relations. Even celibate sanyasi secretly pined for women. There were persons who were born other than man and woman, and there were men and women who suffered from sexual inadequacies or malfunctions but impotence and infertility were seen as a writ of past deeds. Same sex adulation was not an expression of sexual desire for the person of the same sex – it embellished friendship. 

We know very little if at all about hijras and khusras and their existence in early Sikh social and religious life. Hijras and khusras among Sikhs could have been living in the same kind of anonymity then as they do today. The tenor of these verses therefore should not be read as condemnatory or demeaning but possibly the quotes say the way things were then – these people were stigmatized and the hijras or their gurus obviously could not hold favor with the Sikhs subsumed in devotion of their Gurus and life of grihasti.

Source - http://www.sikhsandsociety.org/sex-marriages-lgbt-issues/

In india people often get confused between gay men and khusras, but both are very different. 

I know some gay men get called derogatory like khusra, hijda,  chhakka from their peers, but its not factually correct. 

[jkvlondon]

On 29/01/2017 at 5:13 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! I can't understand what you are going through right now; however, you could adopt a kid and raise it as a single parent, there's many of them who need care and nuturing. Ultimately you need to decide soon whether to follow your Sikhi or to decide on homosexuality, (even though I wish you'd pick Guru Sahib, it's your decision), being conflicted will not help you mentally and will only hurt you in the end. (Your idea of delaying the battle will only ruin your jeevan regardless which path you choose, as, "ਗ੝ਨ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਾਇਓ ਨਹੀ ਜਨਮ੝ ਅਕਾਰਥ ਕੀਨ੝ ॥Gun gobind gĝio nahī janam akĝrath kīn. If you do not sing the Praises of the Lord, your life is rendered useless" (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1426).)  Gay conversion therapy doesn't work, so you can't unnaturally change your orientation unless your sexuality is fluid. Hopefully you can find your way. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

maybe your could help those girls that are abandoned as they have no one to protect and love them ...and Ajeet seems like he has a lot of caring and love to give . Then he would be a father to many and be blessed with love from some many in return .

[jkvlondon]

Khusra were hemaphrodites  who traditionally dressed as female in Hindu culture and treated as beyond human as they naturally are both sexes (like the divine ) thus the tradition of getting blessing etc from them in return for money/offerings  on birth of children and wddings (now  a major racket in Punjab) .

Hijrda were regular men who  become eunuchs , again they choose to reject their natural form some offering their manhoods to a deity in order to be freer . To dress as women and also be venerated by superstitious folks. Often Hijrde will congregate with Khusrey thus the interchangeable use of the term.

Modern day hijdre also have boyfriends thus they fall under homosexual in behaviour but it's complicated...

[singhbj singh]

6 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

In india people often get confused between gay men and khusras, but both are very different. 

I know some gay men get called derogatory like khusra, hijda,  chhakka from their peers, but its not factually correct. 

You might be right but I'll recommend that you read full article at sikhsandsociety.org especially the findings.

There could be a number of reasons for being single here's another perspective.

Single Chinese Men Are Stuck Between Tradition and Capitalism 

http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2017-01-27/single-chinese-men-are-stuck-between-tradition-and-capitalism

I have noticed that homosexuality amongst guys is more prevalent in western countries especially those with cold climate. Delays in marriage is one of the major reasons.

 

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, singhbj singh said:

I have noticed that homosexuality amongst guys is more prevalent in western countries especially those with cold climate. Delays in marriage is one of the major reasons.

Sources for the above?

[singhbj singh]

 

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

Sources for the above?

I have seen it happening in London.

Guy looking at other guy with Lust.

Guys having gay demeanour.

It is more visible compared to India.