Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?

[Siddhartha 52]

21 hours ago, S1ngh said:

I understand your concern. However, we are different and we should refrain ourself from generalization. Not all fingers are equal. There are good and bad folks in every community. 

Thankyou for extending this benefit of doubt. 

[harsharan000 3,765]

On 8/9/2017 at 7:32 PM, Guest Saddened Hindu said:

 

when I go to a gurudwara and have to articulate to my 6 year old girl's query that whether Sikhs hate us or not, I really wonder what does the institution stand for. My 6 year old girl sitting in a sangat with her father, both our heads covered in reverence, listens to an 8 year old boy read a speech saying ,"Aj hinduan di pardhanmantri nu maar ke shahidi prapt kiti.....,", "hinduan ne...", "hinduan di...", "hinduan nu..."etc and then asks me why are we here dad when they hate us, it saddens me. Is this the history lesson that we find is imperative to teach so our progeny doesn't have any doubts about our identity? Majority of sangat in gurudwara were Hindus with their head covered n bowed in reverence, most of an age incapable of comprehending the hatred let alone the reason behind it. I am teaching my child that it was n still might be a tradition amongst Hindu families in Punjab to bring up one child of the family as a Sikh, about the sacrifices of Gurus, about the martyrs of Jallianwalla Bagh and bhagat singh. Then I take that child to the very institution I'm highlighting, to be only exposed to hatred and vitriol in the name of history lesson. History is documented. This in itself means that it has suffered inflictions of bias, inaccuracies, opinions and emotions. So to answer my girl's question I approached that 8 year old lad, congratulated him for his eloquent delivery in Punjabi despite the accent, and asked him, in front of his parents, whether he knew the names of the sons Guruji sacrificed. He drew a blank. Then I asked my girl and she rattled Sahizades' names. So I looked the boy's father in the eye and said that this is what he needs to remember. And I told my girl that Sikhs don't hate us. And I told myself that it's not an institution that I'll never visit but it's a bare building propagating hatred that I'll never set my foot in. I am sure you would answer with so whats. To approach any opposing viewpoint with nonchalance & disdain and to dismiss it with 'I dont care' is disrespectful. I'm sure my so called friends feel exactly like you do. I hope and I'll even hazard that I know that they don't mean any individual disrespect towards me and my family. But your answers/comments and tone have definitely shed a light why they are or have become so.

 

Dear Guest Saddened  hindu jee,

 it is really pitiful to listen to your painful experience in a Gurdwara along with your small 6 year old daughter.

I have to remind all my sikh brothers and sisters, wherever they maybe, that all Gurdwaras are not ours but of Guru Jee, who are the embodiment of all love, mercy and kindness, towards all humanity without any prejudiices, that is their unparalel mahanta. We must keep in mind there are 2 driving forces in the creation, one that of the mind or negativity, and the other one, of the kirpa of Wahiguru.

Nowadays, when we see our own youngsters and not so youngsters, going away from Sikhee, let us ask ourselves, is it not because of the negative impluses of their minds, due to whatever reasons that maybe?

On the other side, we also know, none can enter a Gurdwara, the gateway of the Guru, without His kirpa, His hukum.

So if this family of saddened Hindu, or any others as well, come into a Gurdwara, is it not by the hukum of Akal Purukh?

If they or anybody enters with sharda, prem, by His hukum,  it is because He wants them to listen some Sat Bachan from the Bani, which in some future may surely sprout the truth of Wahiguru in them, it is just  a matter of time, as no Bachan of the Bani goes wasted.

All the sangat in a Gurdwara without any distiction, are guests of Wahiguru, and we as sikhs have a duty towards them, in making their stay comfortable and most respectable as possible during that time being, but never ever with hatred or anger, it is a sign of disrespect towards  Sachay Patshah Wahiguru, to illtreat or misbehave with  His guests.

Guest saddened jee, I can assure you, not all my brothers and sisters of our community are as bad as they may appear to be.

We have ample proofs about it, whenever there are any disasters anywhere, our community are the first ones to go and succour those in distress. This is the main and real feature of humanity, implemented on us as selfless sewadars of Wahiguru Akal Purukh. A couple of weeks ago, there were heavy rainfalls in Mumbai, and it was our community who opened the doors of Gurdwaras to assist and help with food and water, those who were caught up in the high waters

I am quite aware, no one can never ever change the world however the intentions are good, because human beings are most complicated and difficult creatures. They can be good as angles or bad as devils, because of the devlish fanatism and narrow mindedness, fueled by some fools, so to say.

So as I told you, Sikhee is above all religions and fanatism. It is the polluted mind of those who misbehave, which impulses them to be so devlish and unhuman.

Also I will tell you, if ever you come across others who talk badly of sikhs with hatred just like that, please contribute yourself by telling them also to remove that hatred from their minds, for blood can not wash blood, there has to be  a full stop and a new begining of peace and harmony among all communities.

We may fall down many a times, but nevertheless should give a try, because after all it is our good karam and bhakti which counts in the end.

Guest jee, may God bless you.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

[Guest]

Guest Saddened Hindu ji

We are sad that you had to go through that experience. But read Guru granth sahib for yourself. You won't find any hatred 

Also it takes two hands to clap

Taali ek haath se nai bajti

My Hindu "friend" who is a hardcore hindutva fan have insulted my sikh faith numerous times. And once even wiped his gulabjamun syrup hand on my turban

Your RSS hindutva bodies routinely spread lies about sikhism with aim to undermine it. Your radical hindutva outfits are wreaking havoc in punjab and calling shots. 

You can't blame sikhs only. We trusted india nd hindoos, but were backstabbed numerous times

Don't expect an apologist attitude from us. You aren't getting any. If you don't feel like going to gurudwara, no one is forcing you to. 

[Guest]

You first introspect the kind of crrap that happens from your hindu side before blaming it at sikhs entirely 

Also you have no right to say sikhism is wrong, when your own religion is corrupted to no end by varna system and brahmins. 

You ppl destroyed  buddhist and jain monasteries too. Now want to do same with Sikhism 

[Siddhartha 52]

3 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Guest Saddened Hindu ji

We are sad that you had to go through that experience. But read Guru granth sahib for yourself. You won't find any hatred 

Also it takes two hands to clap

Taali ek haath se nai bajti

My Hindu "friend" who is a hardcore hindutva fan have insulted my sikh faith numerous times. And once even wiped his gulabjamun syrup hand on my turban

Your RSS hindutva bodies routinely spread lies about sikhism with aim to undermine it. Your radical hindutva outfits are wreaking havoc in punjab and calling shots. 

You can't blame sikhs only. We trusted india nd hindoos, but were backstabbed numerous times

Don't expect an apologist attitude from us. You aren't getting any. If you don't feel like going to gurudwara, no one is forcing you to. 

Ajeet...what do you think I'm doing here in this forum my brother? Seeking apology? For what? And you say it takes two to tango and in same breath you say don't go to gurudwara, no one is forcing you. Brother...ek haath se taali nahi bajti...I'm requesting you to not hurt...and you are telling me to introspect...what do you think I have done that I'm here? Who is blaming sikhs? Did I even mention it? How did you deduce it? Mere bhai...taali meri gaal pe baja ke kuch shanti milti ho to aisa hi sahi...

I can't stop words coming from your mouth just like you couldn't in case of your hindu friend. But I also would have not let go the opportunity to put him on his behind if he had committed such disrespect.

I can't stop what MY RSS is doing and you can't rein in the conduct of various factions in SGPC. Circle of concern and circle of influence. We have our concerns Ajeet about which we can't do anything  but what are we doing with issues that we have influence on? This is why Im here. We should be doing our bit to reduce this hatred by inviting eachother my brother. Not push away by saying no one is forcing you to go to gurudwara. It takes two to tango. I am here my brother with open mind and open heart.

[simran345 2,500]

9 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

Nowadays, when we see our own youngsters and not so youngsters, going away from Sikhee, let us ask ourselves, is it not because of the negative impluses of their minds, due to whatever reasons that maybe?

How is talking about 1984 going away from Sikhi? It's not only Sikhs that were affected by it. Stop making this into something it's not. The facts are there, ask any one that lost their loved ones then how it's affected them. 

[simran345 2,500]

@Siddhartha  you don't seem uneducated or not intelligent enough to have done something a parent would have done if they felt a child was talking in an inappropriate way. You are painting all Sikhs with the same brush of "badness" from an experience that you had. 

Firstly, nobody else reading your post was there, but you and your daughter were. But still you expect everybody to agree to the "badness" of what happened, when we've got no idea of how and what had been said by a child. We can only take your word for it, but why should we? We don't know what the exact words were said do we? 

If you had any care for Sikhi or for the sangat also, wouldn't it have been wiser to approach the Gurdwara committee? Why didn't you do that, instead of extending it into something that it's not. 

And if you don't like that Gurdwara, then go elsewhere, to a different Gurdwara. It's like your saying all Gurdwaras are discriminating. 

[Premi5 193]

18 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

Thankyou for extending this benefit of doubt. 

Would you be happy if Sikhs were wiped out/become Hindus?

[Siddhartha 52]

12 hours ago, simran345 said:

@Siddhartha  you don't seem uneducated or not intelligent enough to have done something a parent would have done if they felt a child was talking in an inappropriate way. You are painting all Sikhs with the same brush of "badness" from an experience that you had. 

Firstly, nobody else reading your post was there, but you and your daughter were. But still you expect everybody to agree to the "badness" of what happened, when we've got no idea of how and what had been said by a child. We can only take your word for it, but why should we? We don't know what the exact words were said do we? 

If you had any care for Sikhi or for the sangat also, wouldn't it have been wiser to approach the Gurdwara committee? Why didn't you do that, instead of extending it into something that it's not. 

And if you don't like that Gurdwara, then go elsewhere, to a different Gurdwara. It's like your saying all Gurdwaras are discriminating. 

Simran

How can you deduce from all the posts here so far, the words I used and how I articulated, that I'm painting all the Sikhs with the same brush. 

Why would I conjure up a story, look for a forum and then not spew venom? Do you think I have a thirst for apology or a false sense of propriety that I need to satiate by commenting in public forums? I'm not the apologist kind. I am a very confident individual at peace with my being because I have no malice and I believe in doing. Some or any action is superior to an inaction. 

To answer why I didn't approach the gurudwara committee I'll ask you a question instead. You aren't willing to believe in my story, interpreted my comments here in your own way despite them being unambiguous, believe that I had an ulterior motive by apparently making a mountain of a mole hill and "extending it into what it's not". All this presumption and ill will just through my inoccuous comments and you ask why I didn't approach a committee who would have approved the speech & the presentation thus possibly would have been the epicentre of the concern I have.

I don't need to read my comments again to be sure that I didn't take any "sides". Neither did I point a finger or used a broad brush.

To someone who has approached the supposed "other side" with his concern/feelings and someone who is trying to have a discussion to sow a seed of harmony against this dividing rancour, is " if you had any care for sikhi",  "go to a different gurudwara" is all you can say.

Please don't try to read between the lines because there is nothing. I'm writing plainly and respectfully. Just take my words and the concern they are expressing in an absolute way. I am not here to imply. If I want to say that all gurudwaras are discriminating, I'll write it exactly like that.

To forget history is the biggest mistake. It is our responsibility that our progeny is aware of our roots and history. Just like you, I too have no influence over the my whole community, their actions and their thought process. But the whole "hindu community" has not approached this forum and neither am I representing them. So please don't presume my thoughts, my intentions and connotations of the words I use to express myself. Kindly make an exception & extend me the benefit of doubt and then have a discussion.

Much regard

Siddharth

[Siddhartha 52]

22 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

 

Dear Guest Saddened  hindu jee,

 it is really pitiful to listen to your painful experience in a Gurdwara along with your small 6 year old daughter.

I have to remind all my sikh brothers and sisters, wherever they maybe, that all Gurdwaras are not ours but of Guru Jee, who are the embodiment of all love, mercy and kindness, towards all humanity without any prejudiices, that is their unparalel mahanta. We must keep in mind there are 2 driving forces in the creation, one that of the mind or negativity, and the other one, of the kirpa of Wahiguru.

Nowadays, when we see our own youngsters and not so youngsters, going away from Sikhee, let us ask ourselves, is it not because of the negative impluses of their minds, due to whatever reasons that maybe?

On the other side, we also know, none can enter a Gurdwara, the gateway of the Guru, without His kirpa, His hukum.

So if this family of saddened Hindu, or any others as well, come into a Gurdwara, is it not by the hukum of Akal Purukh?

If they or anybody enters with sharda, prem, by His hukum,  it is because He wants them to listen some Sat Bachan from the Bani, which in some future may surely sprout the truth of Wahiguru in them, it is just  a matter of time, as no Bachan of the Bani goes wasted.

All the sangat in a Gurdwara without any distiction, are guests of Wahiguru, and we as sikhs have a duty towards them, in making their stay comfortable and most respectable as possible during that time being, but never ever with hatred or anger, it is a sign of disrespect towards  Sachay Patshah Wahiguru, to illtreat or misbehave with  His guests.

Guest saddened jee, I can assure you, not all my brothers and sisters of our community are as bad as they may appear to be.

We have ample proofs about it, whenever there are any disasters anywhere, our community are the first ones to go and succour those in distress. This is the main and real feature of humanity, implemented on us as selfless sewadars of Wahiguru Akal Purukh. A couple of weeks ago, there were heavy rainfalls in Mumbai, and it was our community who opened the doors of Gurdwaras to assist and help with food and water, those who were caught up in the high waters

I am quite aware, no one can never ever change the world however the intentions are good, because human beings are most complicated and difficult creatures. They can be good as angles or bad as devils, because of the devlish fanatism and narrow mindedness, fueled by some fools, so to say.

So as I told you, Sikhee is above all religions and fanatism. It is the polluted mind of those who misbehave, which impulses them to be so devlish and unhuman.

Also I will tell you, if ever you come across others who talk badly of sikhs with hatred just like that, please contribute yourself by telling them also to remove that hatred from their minds, for blood can not wash blood, there has to be  a full stop and a new begining of peace and harmony among all communities.

We may fall down many a times, but nevertheless should give a try, because after all it is our good karam and bhakti which counts in the end.

Guest jee, may God bless you.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

Dear Harsharan

Your wisdom is heart-warming and your benevolence is contagious. Even though I can't be as eloquent as you, I concur with your comment in it's entirety. This is exactly why I am here. I'm not here to seek apology for what happened at the gurudwara. How can someone apologise for a thought process? And as you have commented how could the wisdom of bani go waste. I could already be a Sikh in the essence of the gurujis teachings. Harsharanji I don't have such a morose outlook of humanity that I would believe that all my Sikh brothers are the same. And you so very well epitomise that belief. As you've advised me to attempt to wash away the discord within the hearts of hindus I come across, this is my attempt to reach across to my Sikh brothers because I felt this hatred. And I decided that I have to do my part to alleviate this suffering. I look forward to more words of wisdom from you.

Regards

Siddharth 

[Siddhartha 52]

11 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Would you be happy if Sikhs were wiped out/become Hindus?

Hello Premi5

Just to answer your question without implying anything, NO I won't be happy if Sikhs were wiped out/become Hindus.

Now that I have answered your question, here is my question. Why would you ask such a question of me after reading everything I have so far written here in this forum?

[BhForce 1,145]

12 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Would you be happy if Sikhs were wiped out/become Hindus?

Seriously? Take a chill pill, bro. He's discussing his experiences with words (that, too, pretty seriously), not taking an AK-47 spraying pilgrims in the parikarma.

[harsharan000 3,765]

 

There is  so much pain, so much hatred, so much anger... it is horrible, just sickening, zombies having thirst for blood.

Found these soothing words, may those who so wish,  take advantage from their contents and calm themselves, there is no need to set fire, from no one, from no side.

If you have wisdom, you don’t have to go through pain to learn. We go through pain because we lack wisdom. But remember that you will come out of pain or hurt at some time or the other.

It is important for one to have a larger context to life. When you have a larger context, then trivial things don’t really bother you. They are like waves on the surface of the ocean – they rise and fall. So, if you are in pain, or have been hurt, here are the four ways of looking at the situation that will ease your pain!

 

1) The one who has hurt you is pained

Many a times, people cause hurt to others because they have scars, and they are unhappy and miserable.

They can only share what they have.

They are hurt and they are sharing the hurt with you.

You might think that these people are hurting you purposely, but in fact it is because they do not have happiness inside them, they don’t have joy or peace.

They have pain inside them, which is why they are causing you hurt.

So, what should the wounded party do?

Compassion.

You have to be compassionate to those who hurt you, because they are wounded themselves.

 

2)The one causing you hurt is just ignorant

There are people who hurt others out of sheer ignorance.

They are not sensitive and they are not aware that their actions are hurting others. They don’t know themselves and they don’t know what they are doing.

They are ignorant and arrogant. You can only feel sorry for them and hope that someday they will become sensitive and intelligent.

 

3)You’re hurting, because It is just karma

You had to get this hurt, and if not this person, then someone else would have given it to you.

You must have caused some hurt to someone in the past, so nature is bringing it back to you now.

When you know that it's just the karma being repaid, you feel very settled.

 

4)It is being done to make you strong

Nature is bringing this pain to you so that you become strong, so that you discover the strength and power within you. Usually, when a pole is being installed, after the installation, they shake the pole to check whether it is rooted well enough or not.

Hurt is just that, to see whether you are well established in yourself, whether you are in wisdom or not.

Every hurt is trying to shake you, to see whether you are strong or not. It tests your strength. It is to make you stronger.

If you think a wise person or someone intelligent is hurting you, then you should be thankful because there is some purpose in that. They want you to be strong.

If your mother is scolding you, she is not doing it with bad intentions.

If your father is scolding you, you can’t say, “Oh my father hurt me! My mother hurt me!”

Your parents are not hurting you – they are coming from a space of care and concern for you. We must recognize that they are doing things out of their limited understanding and love for you.

 

*Having said all this above, in my personal opinion, terrorists, criminals, and racists, they should get punished for their evil acts against humanity.

Of course, there is no doubt, there is no escape in the hereafter world, they will get their dues, but they should get punished here also, and the punishment should be exemplary, in the sense that if someone wants to do some wicked actions,  will have to think twice before doing so, though I am quite aware, that when they do all those evil acts, it is evident, they neither have brains nor heart.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

[Siddhartha 52]

On 09/09/2017 at 11:00 PM, ThunderousDominator said:

 

My brother

I took my time to reply to you because your comments hurt me and I was contemplating whether I should reply or not. But I came the conclusion that if I don't reply then I defeat the purpose of my visit here.

Yes, I have a very smart 6 year old who has been evaluated as gifted and doing year 7 mathematics in year 1.

Thankyou that you somehow acknowledge that I'm bringing up my child the right way when you say "good for you".

Now when I wrote that half of the congregation were hindus with their head covered and bowed, you answered that maybe they should pick up some books and educate themselves. So if they are educated about the issues and have comtempt for Sikhs, Sikhism, Gurus and their teachings, what do you suppose they are doing there in the gurudwara?

When I wrote History is documented, I meant that if any child goes on the internet and search for 1984 riots, he/she will come across lot of conflicting information. Same goes with the books. For the sake of this argument, let's take sides. Being a hindu I can quote you books written by hindus, civilians, military personnel n analysts & Caucasians, information on websites and blogs that document The atrocities hindus endured at the hands of Sikhs. Being a Sikh, I'm sure you can bombard me with links and information depicting the atrocities inflicted by hindus on Sikhs. That's why I wrote history is documented and suffers the bane of opinions & biases. Now if you yourself witnessed the horrors of 1984, who in their sanity can question the authenticity of the experience and its aftermath.Now our kids access these conflicting sources of information and approach their parents. How you handle that query and how you answer that inquisitiveness dictates whether your kid would hate mine just because they are of different beliefs. And this is why I'm here. I don't want that ti happen.

Then you wrote "No it's the other way around" to the the question whether Sikhs hate hindus. And then you ask me to spare you my BS, tell me I'm lying and call me the worst of venemous snake hiding behind kind words. You chose to ignore the kind words, my approach, my demeanour and relied on your presumption to call me names and then went on to write "no it's other way around".

Brother, Gurudwara - door/pathway to Guru. I was there. And you chose to ignore that. Hope you don't anymore feel that I'm someone using spurious IP addresses & trolling the public forums on Sikhism to spew venom and then come to party to have a heartwarming discussion.

Your brother

Siddharth

 

[simran345 2,500]

1 hour ago, Siddhartha said:

How can you deduce from all the posts here so far, the words I used and how I articulated, that I'm painting all the Sikhs with the same brush. 

When you've this as the title "Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?", what else is somebody suppose to think?

As this is what you started off with :

Guest Saddened Hindu   

Posted Friday at 07:13 AM

"I'm here because I now feel that either the teachings, teachers, interpretations or the followers of Sikhism themselves are in the wrong or being guided with malacious intent."

"Are Sikhs somehow being taught this disrespect through the family unit, gurudwaras, community congregations, media? "

That's why, as you have portrayed it in your posts. So, maybe you do need to re-read what you've written  .

And for the record, I don't discriminate against Hindus. My posts are plain and simple and I haven't wrote anything that you would be upset by. I have Hindu friends and I'd say the same thing to them if they wrote that and they wouldn't get offended. 

You should also understand without any evidence, how can I understand the whole situation? 

In my opinion, if you felt that you were discriminated against in any way you should have approached the Gurdwara committee. Isn't that the best thing to do? If you had a bad experience in a store or another public establishment, you would approach the manager or whoever is in charge. So that's why I'm not understanding, when you are so educated, why didn't you consider doing something about it? You also mentioned you talking to the child afterwards with his father there also. Did you talk about your concerns to him? Isn't this the normal thing to do, if somebody feels hurt/offended by something ? Or don't people do that nomore? I don't think I've wrote anything wrong, but only asked why you didn't consider doing something that you would have got some answers from, rather than coming online and starting a thread with that title. I'm not sure what you will achieve from here, an online apology for people who we don't know or don't know the whole situation as nobody was there. I'm not saying you are lieing or it didn't happen. 

I'm saying if you are so confident like you say, why couldn't you have arranged to discuss it with those involved. Do you see how your title comes across for somebody reading it? Maybe if you had titled it as "Bad experience at Gurdwara" or something similar, then I wouldn't have come to the conclusions I did.