Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?

[Preeet 576]

20 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

Thankyou for extending this benefit of doubt. 

vaheguru ji ka khalsa
vaheguru ji ki fateh, ji

Swagat to you for visiting this site Sidharth ji. As someone said before, the views of a loud minority do not necessarily represent the views of the quiet majority..! I know for sure that a lot of Hindus who also worship Sri Parbrahman ji, do not hate Sikhs (and vice versa). But, I was watching a youtube video about sikh/hindu relations, and a 'sardar' commented something very rude about hinduism, and an 'hindu' replied with saying that 'sikhs need to be attacked again'  (which is very wrong thinking). Duniya kuch bhi kahe, mann meh bhakti rahe. Don't change your views because of a crowd of people, rather keep your views because of what the source says (such as for sikhism, the source would be our patth/itihas etc). I've even heard so called hindus making fun of other dharmic hindus as well, someone even made an odd rhyme in a bhajan like 'jado da baniya mera khanaa, mere te hasda hai sara jahana', but that doesn't represent the majority.. What I'm trying to say is that people only talk from what avastha they are at, a lot are not at the ideal state yet.. Apologies to all if I made any mistakes. vaheguru ji ka Khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

[Siddhartha 52]

5 minutes ago, simran345 said:

When you've this as the title "Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?", what else is somebody suppose to think?

As this is what you started off with :

Guest Saddened Hindu   

Posted Friday at 07:13 AM

"I'm here because I now feel that either the teachings, teachers, interpretations or the followers of Sikhism themselves are in the wrong or being guided with malacious intent."

"Are Sikhs somehow being taught this disrespect through the family unit, gurudwaras, community congregations, media? "

That's why, as you have portrayed it in your posts. So, maybe you do need to re-read what you've written  .

And for the record, I don't discriminate against Hindus. My posts are plain and simple and I haven't wrote anything that you would be upset by. I have Hindu friends and I'd say the same thing to them if they wrote that and they wouldn't get offended. 

You should also understand without any evidence, how can I understand the whole situation? 

In my opinion, if you felt that you were discriminated against in any way you should have approached the Gurdwara committee. Isn't that the best thing to do? If you had a bad experience in a store or another public establishment, you would approach the manager or whoever is in charge. So that's why I'm not understanding, when you are so educated, why didn't you consider doing something about it? You also mentioned you talking to the child afterwards with his father there also. Did you talk about your concerns to him? Isn't this the normal thing to do, if somebody feels hurt/offended by something ? Or don't people do that nomore? I don't think I've wrote anything wrong, but only asked why you didn't consider doing something that you would have got some answers from, rather than coming online and starting a thread with that title. I'm not sure what you will achieve from here, an online apology for people who we don't know or don't know the whole situation as nobody was there. I'm not saying you are lieing or it didn't happen. 

I'm saying if you are so confident like you say, why couldn't you have arranged to discuss it with those involved. Do you see how your title comes across for somebody reading it? Maybe if you had titled it as "Bad experience at Gurdwara" or something similar, then I wouldn't have come to the conclusions I did. 

 

Hello Simran

Title is a Title and is a question. Not a statement or my belief. There is a difference. So if I title a discussion as Should same-sex marriage be allowed/legalised, it doesn't in any way implies what I stand for. Or would it mean any different if it would be " Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"

When I wrote:

"I'm here because I now feel that either the teachings, teachers, interpretations or the followers of Sikhism themselves are in the wrong or being guided with malacious intent."

See that there is a use of word either followed by options that I feel might not have been executed in a righteous way.

My quote:

"Are Sikhs somehow being taught this disrespect through the family unit, gurudwaras, community congregations, media? "

Again a question put across to everyone includinf you to encourage discourse. Not a statement of my belief.

Now to address your question as to why I did not draw parallel between a Walmart store manager and a Gurudwara Commitee. Firstly the issue is not discrimination. I wasn't stopped from entering the gurudwara, wasn't directed to sit in a hindu only corner, wasn't asked to leave telling me that I couldn't attend a specific ceremony, wasn't stopped from approaching the granth sahib & prostrating in front of it, wasn't denied parshad, wasn't stopped from helping in the langar, wasn't stopped to partake langar, wasn't asked to leave after the langar and wasn't mistreated in anyway. So I had nothing to complain about in terms of discrimination/racism. I am not sure whether you go to a hindu temple so lets use your hindu friend's home for this example. Would you feel discriminated if you went to one of your hindu friends home for a pooja and the pundit there in his sermons start saying:

"that we have to be proud of our religion and be staunch. Hindus have been turning the other cheek for so long, anyone can make fun of our Gods.make movies and mere mortals/actors can potray our God, insult us by saying Hindus drink cow urine and worship cats, dogs, monkeys etc. Hindus are peace loving and have never first raised our hand. Its always the foreigners invading and killing Hindus. He then taps into his limited knowledge/awareness and goes on to mention about hindu genocide in the decade following 1984 riots, Sikh eating beef etc."

Again, before you put the above example in quote, I am telling you that it's an example and not a statement of my belief.

So now at your hindu friends place there are his/her other hindu friends, family & relatives. What would you do? Would you get up and leave? Would you wait for ceremony to end, then express your displeasure to your friend then & there or at a later stage? Would you wait for ceremony to finish then approach the hindu priest? Would you stand up midst of priest's discourse and confront?...so many options.

You would take one that you think is in realm of your understanding of etiquette. Ofcourse it is very normal to approach someone directly who has offended you and lot of people still take that course. You are presuming here that I didn't have a conversation with the father of that 8 year old boy. But why do you need to know whether I approached the father and/or the gurudwara committee? What would that tell you? Whether I'm confident or not? Whether I'm educated or not? Whether I'm courageous or timid? Doesn't it suffice that I have with open heart approached this forum community including you with a question? If your hindu/sikh friend would approach you that he/she felt hurt would you try to discuss why's and how's  or would you ask what did he/she do to address that hurt? 

How does the title come across to you Simran when you read it? Would it matter if I changed it from:

"Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?",

To:

 Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"

Or:

"Bad experience at Gurdwara".

Would you then draw different conclusions? Or most importantly would you still draw conclusions from a title after reading the content? 

I am here not to seek apology for someone you don't know who did something you don't have evidence for. I'm here to guage whether the feeling I had reasons/ground to it. Whether there is increasing discord due to misguided preachings? Whether we together can do something to mollify the anger/hurt?

I stand to gain a lot Simran if you come and participate in this forum.

Thanks

Siddharth

 

 

[Siddhartha 52]

1 hour ago, Preeet said:

vaheguru ji ka khalsa
vaheguru ji ki fateh, ji

Swagat to you for visiting this site Sidharth ji. As someone said before, the views of a loud minority do not necessarily represent the views of the quiet majority..! I know for sure that a lot of Hindus who also worship Sri Parbrahman ji, do not hate Sikhs (and vice versa). But, I was watching a youtube video about sikh/hindu relations, and a 'sardar' commented something very rude about hinduism, and an 'hindu' replied with saying that 'sikhs need to be attacked again'  (which is very wrong thinking). Duniya kuch bhi kahe, mann meh bhakti rahe. Don't change your views because of a crowd of people, rather keep your views because of what the source says (such as for sikhism, the source would be our patth/itihas etc). I've even heard so called hindus making fun of other dharmic hindus as well, someone even made an odd rhyme in a bhajan like 'jado da baniya mera khanaa, mere te hasda hai sara jahana', but that doesn't represent the majority.. What I'm trying to say is that people only talk from what avastha they are at, a lot are not at the ideal state yet.. Apologies to all if I made any mistakes. vaheguru ji ka Khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

Preetji

Satshriakal

Thank you for your kind words that are so true to the essence of your belief. I too have used and still use this old adage of silent majority and vocal minority. But this is now doing irreparable damage as is evident from the Youtube video you watched. The hate has even engulfed the sense of social etiquette/maryada that the 2 parties couldn't even control their hatred in front of a camera. The silent majority should now become vocal and work towards the hope of slowly shrinking that vocal minority. Just imagine how a generation brought up on hate would bring up their progeny. I can't even imagine how much hatred a Sikh child would have for my child if the father of that Sikh child hates hindus. 

At the same time it's a personal choice/tolerance/stand if one engages in inoccuous banter which again should be within the confines of social etiquette/maryaada. Moreover the key to humour is self-deprecation and it's golden rule is that if you give it, you need to have the maturity to take it too. And I engage in such banter with my very best Sikh friend, who was the one sitting next to me in the gurudwara that day and held my hand when I wanted to stand up in midst of that speech. I have him to thank for keeping me in confines of the etiquette/maryaada that day.

Thank you

Siddharth

[TejS 1,067]

@Siddhartha I would like to say this, our religion, our Granth, our Gurudwaras do not incite or preach hatred against any other group of people or religion. So your Sikh friend(s) that are getting playful with Hindu jokes are not representative of the religion. However, their actions and sentiments towards Hindus, which though condemnable, have occurred for several reasons if I may say so.

In fact, taking a recent look at Sikh-Hindu relations, one would conclude that their actions/sentiments are natural responses to what's taking place. See, Sikh-Hindu differences have always been present from the start (think Gangu), but have never been as extreme as they have been in the past 33 years. I don't think I need to state the obvious, but 1984 was a deciding factor for the Sikh-Hindu relationship, one that has gotten bitter and sour. And to be honest, it was not the people, but the work of governments that divided religious groups for the vote bank, but the damage has already been done. And Sikh jokes, Sikhs not getting constitution rights, the Sikh identity being ridiculed and misconstrued, the rise of the Hindutva supporting BJP, the rise of RSS and its clashes with Sikhs are not making any things better, and are instead dividing the relationship our two communities share even further. 

So, what do you expect from your Sikh friends? To go along happily seeing the ridicule their community faces, or to act out, albeit foolishly, against the community doing the ridicule. Come on now, be realistic.

If the Hindus want to have a cordial relationship with Sikhs, why don't they then amend their mistakes. Perhaps the Indian youth (including the majority of Hindus) can join up together to ban Sikh jokes that are subversively cancerous to my community's image, maligning us as idiots. But no, instead I see even the most liberal, educated Hindu youth take pleasure in these jokes, and they expect my Indian Sikh cousins to laugh along. Oh come on, how low can you people get! Take a look at Vir Sanghvi, an Oxford-educated gentleman, who believes that Sikh jokes are part of the "good-natured Indian tradition", well what a "great" tradition the Indian people have, ridiculing a minority to whom many Indian Hindus owe their very existence to.

Perhaps you could get us our identity in the Indian constitution, as we are Sikhs, an independent group of people with independent beliefs not affiliated to Hinduism. But no, even the most "informed" Indian I've met is likely to say that Sikhs are nothing more than the military hand of Hinduism, and have been created to protect it. Well, thank you for completely tossing out the foundations of our religion, and resorting us to nothing but a military faction of Hindus.

Perhaps, you can collectively get us justice for 1984 by punishing the perpetrators walking in broad day light. But no, not only do the governments protect them, many Hindutva supporting people of India justify the deaths of Sikhs in 1984, and believe that we deserved it. What's funny is that with a significant percentage of Indian Hindus holding the opinions of above, how do you not expect us to not only break away from you, but also to despise you. We are Sikhs, but we are also humans with flaws, and so we have every right to hate what's been done to us, and to hate who did it, and of course these lessons will be passed down to our children, so they that don't end up facing what we did in the past.

I hope you will realize that the hate you experienced isn't senseless, it's the result of years of differences, deceits and a genocide that have led to this feeling. So perhaps take a broader look at why your Sikh friends are treating you the way they are. And I honestly believe that these relations that have been damaged by governments, can be mended by people, but in the current situation, the Indian Hindu majority doesn't seem to want that, and instead are looking towards a far more dividing goal: a Hindu India.

[ThunderousDominator 277]

3 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

 

Quote

Now when I wrote that half of the congregation were hindus with their head covered and bowed, you answered that maybe they should pick up some books and educate themselves. So if they are educated about the issues and have comtempt for Sikhs, Sikhism, Gurus and their teachings, what do you suppose they are doing there in the gurudwara?

First of all were just assuming they were hindus how do you know they wern't just moneh sikhs? Secondly suppose they were all hindus when did I say that hindus visiting a gurudwara had contempt for sikhi? I specifically said hindus and hindu leaders who had malicious intent for sikhi. Now this is what you said  "Majority of sangat in gurudwara were Hindus with their head covered n bowed in reverence, most of an age incapable of comprehending the hatred let alone the reason behind it." THATS why I said they should go pick up some books maybe that would help them understand the hatred(as u put it) a bit better NOT simply because they were hindus at a gurudwara. In the future please dont twist my words its not gonna help us see eye to eye any better.

Quote

When I wrote History is documented, I meant that if any child goes on the internet and search for 1984 riots, he/she will come across lot of conflicting information. Same goes with the books. For the sake of this argument, let's take sides. Being a hindu I can quote you books written by hindus, civilians, military personnel n analysts & Caucasians, information on websites and blogs that document The atrocities hindus endured at the hands of Sikhs. Being a Sikh, I'm sure you can bombard me with links and information depicting the atrocities inflicted by hindus on Sikhs. That's why I wrote history is documented and suffers the bane of opinions & biases. Now if you yourself witnessed the horrors of 1984, who in their sanity can question the authenticity of the experience and its aftermath.Now our kids access these conflicting sources of information and approach their parents. How you handle that query and how you answer that inquisitiveness dictates whether your kid would hate mine just because they are of different beliefs. And this is why I'm here. I don't want that ti happen.

Now here is big issue im having with all your posts which is HUGE false equivalency  during the period from 84-95 tens of thousands of sikhs were killed by the indian government,hindu mobs and the punjab police(under directions from hindus) how many hindus were killed during that period? 300 or 400 most likely even less(Note I'm not trying to downplay the deaths of innocent hindus any loss of innocent life is tragic just pointing out that the number of hindu lives lost was miniscule compared to the number of sikh lives lost) now this is were you'll bring out numbers from books written by hindus and information from hindu websites and hindu blogs with shamelessly over inflated numbers of hindu deaths at which point I'll cease responding to you because I'm not interested in playing he said she said with you I'm interested in FACTS. On one hand you have a majority quom of 966 million attempting genocide and persecuting a minority of 20million and yet that minority quom is the one spreading hatred simply when they point out the injustices they've suffered? Maybe it was the fact that Shaheeds Bhai Satwant Singh and Beant Singh were being honored in that Gurudwara is what got you upset maybe thats what you call spreading hatred. Well this may be a tough pill for you to swallow but until the earth is swallowed by the sun we will always honor our shaheeds and we will never forget there sacrifice.  

Isnt the fact that Indira Gandhi is remembered as hero by hindus all over India spreading hatred? Isnt the fact that the evil kutti has a international airport named after her spreading hatred? Isnt the fact the BJP supported RSS is spreading propaganda and trying to destroy the very fabric of sikhi in our own motherland of Punjab spreading hatred? Yet you have the audacity to come to a sikh forum and tell us sikhs are the ones with malicious intent and that were spreading hatred in our gurudwaras that is why I called you a snake.

 

Watch the whole video. Shaheed Bhai Jaswant Singh Ji was tortured and killed by the Punjab Police shortly after he made that speech. If you truly dont have venom in your heart you should also check out the works of Ram Naryan Kumar(hes a fellow hindu as I said I'm only against hindus who have malicious intent towards sikhs and sikhi). I also noticed that in your post you conveniently avoided answering my question about if you though KP Gill was a hero or not hmmm I wonder why.... Yet after all this you come to us and tell us were the ones spreading hatred honestly it makes me wanna puke. Maybe u think that Shaheed Bhai Jaswant Singh ji was spreading hatred in the above video also.

Now you will probably start spouting the usual bs of "times are now different what uses is bringing this all up now" and the answer to that is simple these aren't some events which happened 100 years ago were the perpetrators and victims are all dead THE MURDERERS OF OUR PEOPLE ARE STILL OUT THERE AND INSTEAD OF BRING THEM TO JUSTICE HINDUS WORSHIP THEM AS HEROS. I'm sorry but until you get the honesty to acknowledge that hindus have fu@ked sikhs over and are continuing to f us over to this day we will never see eye to eye.As for my kids hating your kids for there different beliefs no that will never happen though they might hate them because instead of helping us in our time of need there parents stood by and let our people be butchered not only that but because they swallowed government propaganda hook line and sinker. 

Siddartha you sound like a good person without a agenda(I may be completely wrong here but lets assume I'm not) but from the sound of it you want us to forget what happened in the recent past and turn a blind eye to whats happening to this day and just start singing kumbaya with you but if we do that the snakes within your community will ensure that sikhi goes the same way buddhism did in India 

 

[Siddhartha 52]

On 09/09/2017 at 11:09 PM, Guest Haridas said:

Saddened Hindu, what country are you from?  I am quite shocked.  Please remember that the vocal minority does not necessarily represent the quiet majority.

My advice to you is not to put your faith in people.  You can see from SGGS, history etc that hatred is not part of our dharam.  SGGS and Guru's Kirpa is always open to you.  Put your faith and attention there instead.

Haridasji

Apologies for replying a bit late. My heart is in the right place but being a mere mortal I do feel the hurt. Throughout the history and also in present times, it has always been the preachers that have preached hatred. And it's most damaging/disparaging when it comes from the house of God himself. My concern is about what is going on within the Sikh community that such hate for hindus is on the rise. 

Regards

Siddharth

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

Ajeet...what do you think I'm doing here in this forum my brother? Seeking apology? For what? And you say it takes two to tango and in same breath you say don't go to gurudwara, no one is forcing you. Brother...ek haath se taali nahi bajti...I'm requesting you to not hurt...and you are telling me to introspect...what do you think I have done that I'm here? Who is blaming sikhs? Did I even mention it? How did you deduce it? Mere bhai...taali meri gaal pe baja ke kuch shanti milti ho to aisa hi sahi...

I can't stop words coming from your mouth just like you couldn't in case of your hindu friend. But I also would have not let go the opportunity to put him on his behind if he had committed such disrespect.

I can't stop what MY RSS is doing and you can't rein in the conduct of various factions in SGPC. Circle of concern and circle of influence. We have our concerns Ajeet about which we can't do anything  but what are we doing with issues that we have influence on? This is why Im here. We should be doing our bit to reduce this hatred by inviting eachother my brother. Not push away by saying no one is forcing you to go to gurudwara. It takes two to tango. I am here my brother with open mind and open heart.

I have not against most Hindus. I m only against the ones who deliberately insult my faith or spread lies, as in the case of senior colleague i mentioned 

Having read Upanishads a little, i think its beautiful universal philosophy. Too bad its not preached in hindu society the way polytheism and jyotish is spread which do little for spiritual elevation. 

I m not interested in slapping anyone as diplomacy is first sikh philosophy. 

"When all peaceful means have failed, only then it is rightful to draw the sword"

I m not weak enough to take my colleagues angst on someone else. I m more mature than that. 

Forgiveness is virtue, Forgetting is foolishness. 

I think relation between most hindus nd sikhs are friendly. Stop obsessing 

[Guest]

Admin, requesting you to delete two duplicate posts above. 

[Preeet 576]

2 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

Preetji

Satshriakal

Thank you for your kind words that are so true to the essence of your belief. I too have used and still use this old adage of silent majority and vocal minority. But this is now doing irreparable damage as is evident from the Youtube video you watched. The hate has even engulfed the sense of social etiquette/maryada that the 2 parties couldn't even control their hatred in front of a camera. The silent majority should now become vocal and work towards the hope of slowly shrinking that vocal minority. Just imagine how a generation brought up on hate would bring up their progeny. I can't even imagine how much hatred a Sikh child would have for my child if the father of that Sikh child hates hindus. 

At the same time it's a personal choice/tolerance/stand if one engages in inoccuous banter which again should be within the confines of social etiquette/maryaada. Moreover the key to humour is self-deprecation and it's golden rule is that if you give it, you need to have the maturity to take it too. And I engage in such banter with my very best Sikh friend, who was the one sitting next to me in the gurudwara that day and held my hand when I wanted to stand up in midst of that speech. I have him to thank for keeping me in confines of the etiquette/maryaada that day.

Thank you

Siddharth

vaheguru ji ka khalsa
vaheguru ji Ki fateh, ji

Sat Sri Akal, ji! I understand what you're saying, but it would be hard to explain that to them because they have already made up their minds.. I think people should just be told once, after that just let them be since they will accumulate karmas, and justice will be served. They say Kalyug is going to get worse anyways ;( Personally speaking, I can't do much about it, so I practice bhakti to receive shanti for the mind + body and inspire others to practice pavitr karmas too if they ask me for help. Satya, Swachhta, Bhakti, & Daya are neccesary. Vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki Fateh

[simran345 2,500]

To Siddhartha, I actually to think you are a troll. I'll end it at that and am not going to participate in your thread, because I do see it as exactly how you've written it in the title as an insult to the whole Sikh panth. Write what you like in fancy words and long vocabulary. Yes I do think you are one of those people that cannot bear Sikhs making awareness about 1984, however way it's done, you'd probably have something to complain out. I'm not going to bow down to you and apologise for an experience that you've had like the others did. You asking if I had an experience like that, what would I do.  I've experienced 100 times worse than what you've been through with people of your religion.  You'd be quite surprised to what I've had to deal with in my life,  the list of experiences would be 10 pages long or more, not just one of experience as yours. But I've stop communicating with those Hindu and Punjabi friends that I had bad experiences with. I've had to listen to the Sikh jokes directly and been manipulated into turning about my own religion, I've had all this bakwas from your religion trying to belittle Sikhs and making out we are troublemakers or cause fights with Hindus and had threats and my life endangered when I did oppose of what was being told to us, to Sikhs to go against their own faith.  What did I do? I simply left those people that gave me grief and turned to Guruji and it's the best thing I did. But that doesn't mean I think all Hindus are bad, there are good and bad people in every faith/religion. 

Your experience is nothing to what our family have been through, but we don't go around saying "Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"  That's because we know the whole community is not at fault, as you are asking about the Sikh community. 

Tu ik ceremony di gal karda? Sade te kehi saal lang gey c is bakwas ch. You've had one experience from a visit to the Gurdwara, whereas I've lost loved one in my family and have to live with it for the rest of my life and still we dont openly tell people what we've been through and accept it as past and try to carry on with the best we can. How would I feel, you ask? 

I feel this: 

 

 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

3 hours ago, simran345 said:

To Siddhartha, I actually to think you are a troll. I'll end it at that and am not going to participate in your thread, because I do see it as exactly how you've written it in the title as an insult to the whole Sikh panth. Write what you like in fancy words and long vocabulary. Yes I do think you are one of those people that cannot bear Sikhs making awareness about 1984, however way it's done, you'd probably have something to complain out. I'm not going to bow down to you and apologise for an experience that you've had like the others did. You asking if I had an experience like that, what would I do.  I've experienced 100 times worse than what you've been through with people of your religion.  You'd be quite surprised to what I've had to deal with in my life,  the list of experiences would be 10 pages long or more, not just one of experience as yours. But I've stop communicating with those Hindu and Punjabi friends that I had bad experiences with. I've had to listen to the Sikh jokes directly and been manipulated into turning about my own religion, I've had all this bakwas from your religion trying to belittle Sikhs and making out we are troublemakers or cause fights with Hindus and had threats and my life endangered when I did oppose of what was being told to us, to Sikhs to go against their own faith.  What did I do? I simply left those people that gave me grief and turned to Guruji and it's the best thing I did. But that doesn't mean I think all Hindus are bad, there are good and bad people in every faith/religion. 

Your experience is nothing to what our family have been through, but we don't go around saying "Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"  That's because we know the whole community is not at fault, as you are asking about the Sikh community. 

Tu ik ceremony di gal karda? Sade te kehi saal lang gey c is bakwas ch. You've had one experience from a visit to the Gurdwara, whereas I've lost loved one in my family and have to live with it for the rest of my life and still we dont openly tell people what we've been through and accept it as past and try to carry on with the best we can. How would I feel, you ask? 

I feel this: 

 

 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

10 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

Hello Simran

Title is a Title and is a question. Not a statement or my belief. There is a difference. So if I title a discussion as Should same-sex marriage be allowed/legalised, it doesn't in any way implies what I stand for. Or would it mean any different if it would be " Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"

When I wrote:

"I'm here because I now feel that either the teachings, teachers, interpretations or the followers of Sikhism themselves are in the wrong or being guided with malacious intent."

See that there is a use of word either followed by options that I feel might not have been executed in a righteous way.

My quote:

"Are Sikhs somehow being taught this disrespect through the family unit, gurudwaras, community congregations, media? "

Again a question put across to everyone includinf you to encourage discourse. Not a statement of my belief.

Now to address your question as to why I did not draw parallel between a Walmart store manager and a Gurudwara Commitee. Firstly the issue is not discrimination. I wasn't stopped from entering the gurudwara, wasn't directed to sit in a hindu only corner, wasn't asked to leave telling me that I couldn't attend a specific ceremony, wasn't stopped from approaching the granth sahib & prostrating in front of it, wasn't denied parshad, wasn't stopped from helping in the langar, wasn't stopped to partake langar, wasn't asked to leave after the langar and wasn't mistreated in anyway. So I had nothing to complain about in terms of discrimination/racism. I am not sure whether you go to a hindu temple so lets use your hindu friend's home for this example. Would you feel discriminated if you went to one of your hindu friends home for a pooja and the pundit there in his sermons start saying:

"that we have to be proud of our religion and be staunch. Hindus have been turning the other cheek for so long, anyone can make fun of our Gods.make movies and mere mortals/actors can potray our God, insult us by saying Hindus drink cow urine and worship cats, dogs, monkeys etc. Hindus are peace loving and have never first raised our hand. Its always the foreigners invading and killing Hindus. He then taps into his limited knowledge/awareness and goes on to mention about hindu genocide in the decade following 1984 riots, Sikh eating beef etc."

Again, before you put the above example in quote, I am telling you that it's an example and not a statement of my belief.

So now at your hindu friends place there are his/her other hindu friends, family & relatives. What would you do? Would you get up and leave? Would you wait for ceremony to end, then express your displeasure to your friend then & there or at a later stage? Would you wait for ceremony to finish then approach the hindu priest? Would you stand up midst of priest's discourse and confront?...so many options.

You would take one that you think is in realm of your understanding of etiquette. Ofcourse it is very normal to approach someone directly who has offended you and lot of people still take that course. You are presuming here that I didn't have a conversation with the father of that 8 year old boy. But why do you need to know whether I approached the father and/or the gurudwara committee? What would that tell you? Whether I'm confident or not? Whether I'm educated or not? Whether I'm courageous or timid? Doesn't it suffice that I have with open heart approached this forum community including you with a question? If your hindu/sikh friend would approach you that he/she felt hurt would you try to discuss why's and how's  or would you ask what did he/she do to address that hurt? 

How does the title come across to you Simran when you read it? Would it matter if I changed it from:

"Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?",

To:

 Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"

Or:

"Bad experience at Gurdwara".

Would you then draw different conclusions? Or most importantly would you still draw conclusions from a title after reading the content? 

I am here not to seek apology for someone you don't know who did something you don't have evidence for. I'm here to guage whether the feeling I had reasons/ground to it. Whether there is increasing discord due to misguided preachings? Whether we together can do something to mollify the anger/hurt?

I stand to gain a lot Simran if you come and participate in this forum.

Thanks

Siddharth

You are implying a level of impractical ideas that no true Sikh would willingly accept. When the Hindus are making jokes of Sikhs Shaheeds and calling our Mahapurukhs as extremists, then there is clearly a disconnect from our people.

Now at first I was a completely dumbfounded, by the idea that you may have some general concerns about what's going on, maybe even feeling stupidly sympathetic towards you; however, once you've revealed who you truly are as a troll spitting on some innocent Singhs and Kaurs, I acknowledge I became a buffon.

A Gurdwara is not some business, in the same way a Mandir is not a business or a church, Gurdwara politics is an issue Sikhs should solve on themselves, same with any other faith. If a Hindu preacher said stuff like this: 

10 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

"that we have to be proud of our religion and be staunch. Hindus have been turning the other cheek for so long, anyone can make fun of our Gods.make movies and mere mortals/actors can potray our God, insult us by saying Hindus drink cow urine and worship cats, dogs, monkeys etc. Hindus are peace loving and have never first raised our hand. Its always the foreigners invading and killing Hindus. He then taps into his limited knowledge/awareness and goes on to mention about hindu genocide in the decade following 1984 riots, Sikh eating beef etc."

I wouldn't really like that, but again, I wouldn't go to the Mandir, but the preacher should be allowed to stand-up for his people being degraded. They have a right to preach freely, why don't we?

11 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

So now at your hindu friends place there are his/her other hindu friends, family & relatives. What would you do? Would you get up and leave? Would you wait for ceremony to end, then express your displeasure to your friend then & there or at a later stage? Would you wait for ceremony to finish then approach the hindu priest? Would you stand up midst of priest's discourse and confront?...so many options.

If I ever went to a church for example sake, I know there are some things I will never be allowed to do as a Non-Christian; one is take communion, and I assume they'd be respectful enough to tell me to leave, but when it comes to our faith we are constantly pressured to be accommodating. I as a Non-Brahmin, Non-Hindu can't go to Jaganath Puri, but still their rules are respected, only when it comes to us preaching, we get disrespect, is there any logical reason why?

11 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

I am here not to seek apology for someone you don't know who did something you don't have evidence for. I'm here to guage whether the feeling I had reasons/ground to it. Whether there is increasing discord due to misguided preachings? Whether we together can do something to mollify the anger/hurt?

I know that this was directed to Simran, but if I had previously known you were trolling, I wouldn't have tried explaining why these conflicts happen.

[jkvlondon 5,001]

10 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

Haridasji

Apologies for replying a bit late. My heart is in the right place but being a mere mortal I do feel the hurt. Throughout the history and also in present times, it has always been the preachers that have preached hatred. And it's most damaging/disparaging when it comes from the house of God himself. My concern is about what is going on within the Sikh community that such hate for hindus is on the rise. 

Regards

Siddharth

errr

you told us exactly what you saw and that was a speech by an eight year old remembering those who sacrificed their lives to avenge the countless murdered of June 1984 and immediately after in operation woodrose in Punjab. That was a historical recounting there was no hate speech so zip it  with your fabrications ... since 1990s who have been attacked , whose places of worship  damaged , defiled or  even in the case of the Gyan Godri gurdwara totally demolished? who have been falsely imprisoned and are still being killed by police for simple naam jap protests?  The facts speak for themselves  and the number of times I have been told by HIndus that if I speak up about the lack of justice go live in pakistan or out right call me a terrorist ...Have shame a little before slinging mud on SIkhi or sikhs .

[Preeet 576]

1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

If I ever went to a church for example sake, I know there are some things I will never be allowed to do as a Non-Christian; one is take communion, and I assume they'd be respectful enough to tell me to leave, but when it comes to our faith we are constantly pressured to be accommodating. I as a Non-Brahmin, Non-Hindu can't go to Jaganath Puri, but still their rules are respected, only when it comes to us preaching, we get disrespect, is there any logical reason why?

 

vaheguru ji ka khalsa
vaheguru ji ki fateh, ji

Where did you get the idea that you, as a Sikh cannot go to that Jagannath Puri temple. Sikhs can go there without being stopped, the only people that I thought were stopped were non ethnic Indians or those who are of abrahamic faiths..! I have never heard of any mandirs say that Sikhs cant come. bhull chuk maaf kijye vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

[Guest Jacfsing2]

14 minutes ago, Preeet said:

vaheguru ji ka khalsa
vaheguru ji ki fateh, ji

Where did you get the idea that you, as a Sikh cannot go to that Jagannath Puri temple. Sikhs can go there without being stopped, the only people that I thought were stopped were non ethnic Indians or those who are of abrahamic faiths..! I have never heard of any mandirs say that Sikhs cant come. bhull chuk maaf kijye vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/nonhindus-can-enter-jagannath-temples-except-shrine-at-puri/article2764219.ece

In the same way a Non-Muslim can enter mosques other than Mecca and Medina, same with Jaganath Puri, they also refuse non-Subcontinental Hindu converts from entering. Even the Hindu tyrants like Indra Gandhi and Jagdidh Tytler, (who is a devout Christian, who killed innocent Sikhs.)