Why is our community so un-intellectual?

[TejS]

58 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Notice that I said "too much intellectualism ".

I did notice that, I was replying to "It's because we are a people of action. We don't like to overthink." Overthinking or dwelling leads to doubt, but is also leads to discoveries, which we have very few of.

58 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

 

There is going to be a particular percentage that are going to be intellectuals, not everyone is going to have a PhD. 

It doesn't even have to be solely limited to academics. It can be progress made in art as well. Sadly, our people love to emulate rather than create their own. Tacky Punjabi rap songs is not the way forward. 

[jkvlondon]

3 hours ago, TejS said:

A handful of people, yes. Compare this to the Jews and I would find it difficult to fit in all their intellectuals into one post. Yes, we have gems like Narinder Singh Kapany but they are very rare and few.

I don't get why sikhs have got such a love affair with jews ...they are two faced snakes who trained the troops which killed our people at Harmandir Sahib .

So what they are in media  -

they own and propagate the filth of porn across the globe  thus enslaving young women and children via sex trafficking

contrary to christo-judeo morals they encourage adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, paedophilia, fetishes, sado-maschism

where they are in pushing into legal, political , education and arts it's all about manifesting a dependence on their brainwashing  educational text and from there usurping the goverment machinery to rob the ordinary citizens to support their own desires and wants. e.g.

you pick your heroes oppenheimer/kissinger/soros/buffett or SantJarnail SIngh Bhindrawale/Bhai Fauja SIngh ji/ Akali Phoola Singh ji /Hari SIngh Nalwaji /Bhagat Puran SIngh / Jaswant SIngh Khalra.

kind of funny how the people writing the history texts across the globe are being edited and published by Jewish publishing houses (it's a real problem for non-bias as many authors have attested)

If you want to control the future , you need to control the past  , if you want to control the past , control the present.

I do not believe what jewish want me to believe about the history of the world- India or the east, Africa or any non- dominated culture because according to them no one is as smart as them , as great as them  etc  etc ... the hubris is great .

They are just as intelligent as the rest not a huge difference Indians are just as intelligent .

[jkvlondon]

2 hours ago, TejS said:

I agree that we are a people that cannot analyse, thus ending up in the current predicament that we are. I respectfully disagree with the notion that people of action cannot be intellectuals or that analysis leads to paralysis, and the tenets of Sikhi will disagree as well.

If we take a glance at the Ancient Greeks, whose people have had considerable influence on the Western world, they too believed that one should and can possess both traits and they claimed, ""The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."

 If we take a look at the Ancient Persians, who were a people of action through out their conquests, they too have had a significant amount of scholars as well and continue to nurture that scholarly attitude. 

I don't think the two need to be mutually exclusive for any community.

we have had scholars and poets and strategists in our history aplenty even our women were great generals, in fact Lahore was considered a major centre of culture  . Our problem is those who want to act like sheep through fear  constantly put down /tear into any deep thinker who wants panthic ekta and progression . Look at how many 'sikhs' start baying Khalistani at anyone who says beware of the government and police, or even suggests being trained up militarily /martial arts , carrying kirpans and being tyaar bar tyaar. We have gotten amnesia about our true educational standards : we were multilingual, well-read, musical and also had the practical side of living and defending ourselves down . We considered people who were uneducated an underutilised resource that's why if someone calls you an unpard gwaar it stings so bad  even today .

 

 

[TejS]

1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

I don't get why sikhs have got such a love affair with jews ...they are two faced snakes who trained the troops which killed our people at Harmandir Sahib .

I don't have a love affair, I just gave you an example of a minority community with exceptional academic achievement. You don't like the Jews, okay no problem, what about Greek, Arab, and Persian intellectuals. Persians number a few more million than Sikhs yet have had major administrative and scholarly achievement over their entire history and have influenced the entire world, including South Asian and especially Punjab? What's your diatribe against them now?

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So what they are in media  -

they own and propagate the filth of porn across the globe  thus enslaving young women and children via sex trafficking

contrary to christo-judeo morals they encourage adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, paedophilia, fetishes, sado-maschism

Extremely stereotypical.

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where they are in pushing into legal, political , education and arts it's all about manifesting a dependence on their brainwashing  educational text and from there usurping the goverment machinery to rob the ordinary citizens to support their own desires and wants. e.g.

Why aren't we doing the same? Doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

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you pick your heroes oppenheimer/kissinger/soros/buffett or SantJarnail SIngh Bhindrawale/Bhai Fauja SIngh ji/ Akali Phoola Singh ji /Hari SIngh Nalwaji /Bhagat Puran SIngh / Jaswant SIngh Khalra.

Buffet isn't Jewish, but okay. You've named Jewish intellectuals/investors and Sikh warriors/revolutionaries/activists. I think you've just proved the point I was trying to make.

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kind of funny how the people writing the history texts across the globe are being edited and published by Jewish publishing houses (it's a real problem for non-bias as many authors have attested)

If you want to control the future , you need to control the past  , if you want to control the past , control the present.

So why aren't we doing the same?

Quote

They are just as intelligent as the rest not a huge difference Indians are just as intelligent .

Yes, Indians are just as intelligent, that is why 201 Jews have received a Nobel Prize for advancing humanity whereas only 10 ethnic Indians, none being Sikh, have received the Nobel Prize and some of those choices are clearly questionable (Gandhi). 

Just face it, we're not an intellectual bunch. Accept it and let's discuss on how we can implement measures to bring intellectual growth within ourselves and the Sikh community. 

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, TejS said:

I don't have a love affair, I just gave you an example of a minority community with exceptional academic achievement. You don't like the Jews, okay no problem, what about Greek, Arab, and Persian intellectuals. Persians number a few more million than Sikhs yet have had major administrative and scholarly achievement over their entire history and have influenced the entire world, including South Asian and especially Punjab? What's your diatribe against them now?

Extremely stereotypical.

Why aren't we doing the same? Doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

Buffet isn't Jewish, but okay. You've named Jewish intellectuals/investors and Sikh warriors/revolutionaries/activists. I think you've just proved the point I was trying to make.

So why aren't we doing the same?

Yes, Indians are just as intelligent, that is why 201 Jews have received a Nobel Prize for advancing humanity whereas only 10 ethnic Indians, none being Sikh, have received the Nobel Prize and some of those choices are clearly questionable (Gandhi). 

Just face it, we're not an intellectual bunch. Accept it and let's discuss on how we can implement measures to bring intellectual growth within ourselves and the Sikh community. 

you do know that the Nobel prize is highly politicised and not a measure of intelligence only , beside Gandhi nominations got refused 13 times .

you are comparing a group that have had their feet under the table in Europe and the West for over five hundred years , which has not faced all out annihilation for hundreds of years at a time in its infancy like us ...besides you fell into the same trap of discounting linguistics, poetic, administrative capabilities , strategic thinking of our people , did you know that Hari Singh Nalwa actually brought oranges and nut trees to Afghanisthan so they could be cultivated by the people to have an income ? Even today there is a thriving market for those crops because of him. Whereever sikhs go the standard of life improves for the neighbours too, still true today. It is a major achievement  the number of treaties and agreements brokered  with numerous kingdoms and  the fact that a force that was miniscule had such a sway across disparate cultures and yet peace reigned overpreviously war-torn regions finally ,allowing people to learn and earn without fear . That education was paramount concern and efforts were made for food security .

Where has Israel created peace? where has it enhanced the lives of the people who are non-jewish on its soil? Has it shared the profit made on soil that was usurped ?

Arab intellectuals ? hmm probably you'll find they are probably persians in origin and a lot of the ideas are mostly repackaged Indian mathematics even so called arabic numerals  . Persians could only submit to Islam to save their culture , most of the blue/turquoise and stylised arabic writing has roots in tiled architecture and inlay skills of ancient persians, i don't think that we have that option to submit sikhi to a worldly power.  Besides why is it that they are teaching Zafarnama to Tehran university students as the only quality persian epistle worth studying at PG level ?  Could it be that we also have something different to give back to the world in terms of the words of forgotten saints, writers  and poets , forgotten musical measures, forgotten literary forms? We have also a whole swathe of musical history preserved in our books and numerous instruments created by Guru Sahiban .
Our Singhs spoke numerous languages because they had to , to be effective in the numerous kingdoms' courts . Poetry was in Persian, punjabi and Brij Bhasa . Our Scholars were able to read Sanskrit, prakrit and pali , arabic and persian  just because somebody didn't sit and enumerate how many and who they were for global broadcast doesn't mean they didn't exist, and it doesn't mean we can't do the same .

Our main emphasis should be to set up our own education institutes both physical and online, to champion hi tech/low tech ecological solutions  for Punjab's problems , to prepare our people for the eventual butting of heads between India and China and Russia.

 

[YOYO29]

1 hour ago, TejS said:

Indians are just as intelligent, that is why 201 Jews have received a Nobel Prize for advancing humanity whereas only 10

brother, Jews were present in those countries which were going through scientific revolution and Jews took full advantage of it hence a large number of Jews won nobel prizes. Indian on the other hand were living as colonial subjects when western world was advancing in science.Give it some time Indians and Chinese will catch up.

[jkvlondon]

yeah and the they will show their true colours

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/albert-einstein-racism-travel-diaries-china-japan-zeev-rosenkranz-a8397226.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1528927662

[TejS]

2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

you do know that the Nobel prize is highly politicised and not a measure of intelligence only , beside Gandhi nominations got refused 13 times .

I think by referring to Gandhi as a questionable choice, I've made it clear that I understand the Nobel prize is biased, however look at the achievements for which Jewish people have received their Nobel prizes in. It's definite achievements in science and mathematics whose discoveries cannot be challenged.

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you are comparing a group that have had their feet under the table in Europe and the West for over five hundred years , which has not faced all out annihilation for hundreds of years at a time in its infancy like us ...besides you fell into the same trap of discounting linguistics, poetic, administrative capabilities , strategic thinking of our people , did you know that Hari Singh Nalwa actually brought oranges and nut trees to Afghanisthan so they could be cultivated by the people to have an income ? Even today there is a thriving market for those crops because of him. Whereever sikhs go the standard of life improves for the neighbours too, still true today. It is a major achievement  the number of treaties and agreements brokered  with numerous kingdoms and  the fact that a force that was miniscule had such a sway across disparate cultures and yet peace reigned overpreviously war-torn regions finally ,allowing people to learn and earn without fear . That education was paramount concern and efforts were made for food security .

I think you'll find that Jews have had faced quite a lot of oppression throughout their time in Europe through pogroms and systematic exclusion and most of their achievement was during those times, not during periods of relative peace in Judea. 

How can Hari Singh Nalwa bring fruits and nut trees to Afghanistan when he never set foot in it  I'm sorry but where are you getting these tales from? Source?

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Where has Israel created peace? where has it enhanced the lives of the people who are non-jewish on its soil? Has it shared the profit made on soil that was usurped ?

Does Israel, a Jewish nation, need to improve the lives of non-Jewish people on its soil? Self-interest is something the Sikh community needs to learn soon or we'll weaken ourselves further into oblivion by total selflessness. Anyways, many of the technological advancements that we live off of today and have bettered our lives are based or built upon findings of Jewish minds, so I think that's enough help.

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Arab intellectuals ?

Yes, ethnic Arabs like Ibn al-Haytham.

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hmm probably you'll find they are probably persians in origin and a lot of the ideas are mostly repackaged Indian mathematics even so called arabic numerals.

I'll give you this one. I also believe that history has been unkind and unfair to Aryabhatta.

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Persians could only submit to Islam to save their culture , most of the blue/turquoise and stylised arabic writing has roots in tiled architecture and inlay skills of ancient persians, i don't think that we have that option to submit sikhi to a worldly power.

Yes, the Persians submitted to Islam. So? Does that take away from their achievement in any way. You seem to be just picking at the defeats of a people who have achieved an exponential times more than we ever have. 

 

 

[TejS]

On 6/13/2018 at 6:01 PM, jkvlondon said:

Besides why is it that they are teaching Zafarnama to Tehran university students as the only quality persian epistle worth studying at PG level ? Could it be that we also have something different to give back to the world in terms of the words of forgotten saints, writers  and poets , forgotten musical measures, forgotten literary forms? We have also a whole swathe of musical history preserved in our books and numerous instruments created by Guru Sahiban .
Our Singhs spoke numerous languages because they had to , to be effective in the numerous kingdoms' courts . Poetry was in Persian, punjabi and Brij Bhasa . Our Scholars were able to read Sanskrit, prakrit and pali , arabic and persian  just because somebody didn't sit and enumerate how many and who they were for global broadcast doesn't mean they didn't exist, and it doesn't mean we can't do the same .

Our main emphasis should be to set up our own education institutes both physical and online, to champion hi tech/low tech ecological solutions  for Punjab's problems , to prepare our people for the eventual butting of heads between India and China and Russia.

 

Zafarnama is being taught at Tehran University? Where did you hear this tale from, WhatsApp? I guess it must be as true as NASA keeping the Guru Granth Sahib in their library for fact checking.

We have nothing new to give back to the world in poetry, musical measures or literary form given that we have blatantly copied those forms in the first place, and I'm not sure the originators would have any interest in reading a foreign version of their own ideas. There may have been a time during the Vedic Age, when all NW South Asians had their own forms, but sadly as we love pandering to invaders, we lost those forms, and they were undocumented.

Our Singhs spoke numerous languages because they were under foreign oppressed rule, just like their fellow South Asians. Poetry was in Persian because that was the court language of the Mughals. Our scholars were able to read Arabic because the rulers were Muslim.

Our main emphasis should be to cultivate an original culture based on Sikh values and to perpetuate intellectual thinking. I could care less for Punjab. At this point really, I only care for Sikhs. 

[TejS]

3 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

brother, Jews were present in those countries which were going through scientific revolution and Jews took full advantage of it hence a large number of Jews won nobel prizes. Indian on the other hand were living as colonial subjects when western world was advancing in science.Give it some time Indians and Chinese will catch up.

The average Jew and the average Sikh in this day and time have a great disparity in their inclination towards education. And it is this disparity, and apathy for education that has me worried about my community. The Chinese have already caught up in my opinion and the Indians will surely catch up - its no surprise given that the Hindu youth are extremely focused on educational achievement. Whereas Sikh youth in the Western world is more interested in getting caught up in gang culture and shooting themselves up.