Why is our community so un-intellectual?

[jkvlondon]

3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Our people are practical learners.

I think apprenticeships are far better for our people than traditional academic learning.

 

I agree that there is something in us that allows us to learn better and quicker by putting the theory in practice at first blush , my son is a tech whizz but he cannot stand report writing , heavily over analysing everything , he just wants to do it , tell him the problem and he just goes to it . it's been the same all through his childhood the knowledge is in him he would pass any viva voce examination in any subject but ask him the same on paper and he refused like showjumping horse at a fence .  I'm the same I watch/hear and put it into practice and it really becomes a part of me much more than just absorbing the theory in a dry academic way , maybe it's something in the genetics .

'odaan gallan nal nahin bannani, karke vekhao'

[imhosingh]

Intellectuals like to talk because they have no power to make things happen. Its about balance isn't it, look at our committees. They aren't filled with intellectuals, but those who will do whatever it takes to get and maintain their 'positions'. Ever been around our 'community' elders after they've had a few drinks? They suddenly become intellectual giants on all topics, so to say we are un-intellectual is doing those folks a disservice.  

[Ranjeet01]

8 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

I agree that there is something in us that allows us to learn better and quicker by putting the theory in practice at first blush , my son is a tech whizz but he cannot stand report writing , heavily over analysing everything , he just wants to do it , tell him the problem and he just goes to it . it's been the same all through his childhood the knowledge is in him he would pass any viva voce examination in any subject but ask him the same on paper and he refused like showjumping horse at a fence .  I'm the same I watch/hear and put it into practice and it really becomes a part of me much more than just absorbing the theory in a dry academic way , maybe it's something in the genetics .

'odaan gallan nal nahin bannani, karke vekhao'

The irony is that it is the practical skills that will get him ahead in the world.

The dry academic part is just for accreditation. 

My father told me about an old school friend who was extremely academic,  a straight student but give him a hammer to hit a nail and he would not know which way to hold the hammer.

[jkvlondon]

I think the problem is we have not encourage the 'intellectuals' to come out of their towers and do some practical for the kaum. Even disseminate their wisdom e.g Sirdar Kapur Singh . Bhai Randhir Singh ji et al in numerous languages to all worldwide sangat . We need to make it a priority to have research facilities in a fully stocked library in each gurdwara.

[TejS]

8 hours ago, imhosingh said:

Intellectuals like to talk because they have no power to make things happen. Its about balance isn't it, look at our committees. They aren't filled with intellectuals, but those who will do whatever it takes to get and maintain their 'positions'. Ever been around our 'community' elders after they've had a few drinks? They suddenly become intellectual giants on all topics, so to say we are un-intellectual is doing those folks a disservice.  

You undermine intellectuals a lot. Most of the major turnings/revolutions/rebellions in history have arose from a mind of a person that "likes to talk because they have no power to make things happen." In fact, they are the ones that give people the power to make things happen. 

 

[TejS]

13 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Our people are practical learners.

I think apprenticeships are far better for our people than traditional academic learning.

 

Indeed, our people are practical learners! We're so practical that despite farming for centuries, we still use harmful rudimentary techniques to clear fields - stubble burning, because we can't come up with better methods that the West already has. We're so practical that we're still using inefficient irrigation methods from centuries past. We've developed no farming equipment/machinery that could ease our lives because practicality courses through our veins and that's why we use machinery developed in the West, such as our beloved John Deere tractor.

[Ranjeet01]

3 hours ago, TejS said:

Indeed, our people are practical learners! We're so practical that despite farming for centuries, we still use harmful rudimentary techniques to clear fields - stubble burning, because we can't come up with better methods that the West already has. We're so practical that we're still using inefficient irrigation methods from centuries past. We've developed no farming equipment/machinery that could ease our lives because practicality courses through our veins and that's why we use machinery developed in the West, such as our beloved John Deere tractor.

There is a lot more to the farming situation than meets the eye but this is not something I really have delved into.

Our farming structure probably is very different to the west.

And of course western farming techniques are not all fantastic either with all the industrial farming. 

What we are going to find out in the future is that some of our traditional farming techniques are probably going to be far better than these "modern " techniques and it will be far more sustainable too.

 

There is so many other things that we are practical learners though. 

 

[Sukhvirk1976]

On 6/13/2018 at 5:51 AM, TejS said:

What's the reason that we have not been able to cultivate an original culture based on Sikh values, yet have continued to propagate Punjabi culture which is a hodge-podge of foreign culture given an identity by the Mughal Jehangir?

Why have we not developed any meaningful or impactful pieces of art that reflect Sikh values?

Why have Sikhs made no innovation or strides in science or business?

What are we lacking or missing that prevents our community to have intellectuals?

Wow 

Can you please first define what you think a 'original culture' is? 

Meaningful pieces of art, please let me direct you towards the most beautiful of artistic expressions, namely Gurbani Sangeet 

Strides in science or business.. Mmmm as a minority community panjabis and people of sikh backgrounds are statistically overrepresented globally in both areas 

What lacks our community having great intellectuals? Mmmm let's for a moment disregard what your definition of 'our community' is or your assertion that something is missing /lacking.. In which area do you think there is a lack of intelligentsia? 

 

[TejS]

6 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Wow 

Can you please first define what you think a 'original culture' is? 

Something that isn't a complete taking of other cultures, and instead is a culture that was practiced by our ancestors or is cultivated by our own people. Original forms of literature, music, visual arts, not forms ripped off of West Asian cultures.

6 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Meaningful pieces of art, please let me direct you towards the most beautiful of artistic expressions, namely Gurbani Sangeet 

Strides in science or business.. Mmmm as a minority community panjabis and people of sikh backgrounds are statistically overrepresented globally in both areas 

Gurbani Sangeet is one form of artistic expression. How about we branch out into more?

Not sure where you're getting your claim of being over-represented in the sciences? Source? We are in fact not represented in science at all. 

And another thing, just being a part of academia means nothing, its moot. Actually innovating and bringing new paradigm shifts is referred to as making strides. I can sit and read all about Jewish and European inventions and theories, but that doesn't make me a player in the game unless I actually present my own ideas and theories. 

What Sikh entrepreneur has actually offered new products/tools that the world can use to better their lives. Opening up a restaurant to finance your living is admirable, but don't mistake that for making strides.

And please, can we stop with this Punjabi brotherhood. Because Muslim and Hindu Punjabis don't really take kindly to sharing their achievements with us.

6 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

What lacks our community having great intellectuals? Mmmm let's for a moment disregard what your definition of 'our community' is or your assertion that something is missing /lacking.. In which area do you think there is a lack of intelligentsia? 

Where are our inventions? Our ideas? Our theories? Our forms of art influencing the world? Our methods improving the lives of people?

Nowhere to be seen, hence lacking.

[Ranjeet01]

3 hours ago, TejS said:

Something that isn't a complete taking of other cultures, and instead is a culture that was practiced by our ancestors or is cultivated by our own people. Original forms of literature, music, visual arts, not forms ripped off of West Asian cultures.

Gurbani Sangeet is one form of artistic expression. How about we branch out into more?

Not sure where you're getting your claim of being over-represented in the sciences? Source? We are in fact not represented in science at all. 

And another thing, just being a part of academia means nothing, its moot. Actually innovating and bringing new paradigm shifts is referred to as making strides. I can sit and read all about Jewish and European inventions and theories, but that doesn't make me a player in the game unless I actually present my own ideas and theories. 

What Sikh entrepreneur has actually offered new products/tools that the world can use to better their lives. Opening up a restaurant to finance your living is admirable, but don't mistake that for making strides.

And please, can we stop with this Punjabi brotherhood. Because Muslim and Hindu Punjabis don't really take kindly to sharing their achievements with us.

Where are our inventions? Our ideas? Our theories? Our forms of art influencing the world? Our methods improving the lives of people?

Nowhere to be seen, hence lacking.

What tends to happen in regards to innovation is that it is not always a straightforward process.

The Japanese took many western processes  (they were called copy cats in 50s and 60's ) , which they mastered before they were able to bring in innovation from their own cultural imprint. 

For example, we Sikhs originally were not a fighting race. We were sparrows and we had to learn from others before we became hawks. 

We weren't traditionally horseriders but we became better horsemen than.the Central Asians and then we developed our own styles.

They say necessity is the mother of invention and as Sikhs we learnt how to fight and developed new techniques in regards to hit and run tactics etc.

The SAS copied a lot of Sikh techniques which they still use to this day.

What is written down and theorised in books is what tried out in practice first.