Why are Taksalis against NKJ and Dhandriawala

[Guest Sikh1]

Why are Taksalis so against Nirvair Khalsa Jatha and Bhai Ranjit Singh? I don't follow any specific jathebandi or sampardas so I don't listen to parchar/kirtan with preconceived judgements based on the allegiance of a group. Based on the katha/vichaar I've heard from these guys, I never really saw anything wrong with what they were saying. In fact, they've spoken on issues that are currently hurting the sikh community like saint worship/derawaad, caste system, some sikh 'clergy' being no different than ancient religious elites, gurdwaras running as a business and etc. So what's the big deal strictly with their vichaar. I know there has been allegations on NKJ in the past but if that was the issue the people are protesting about right now, it would've happened a long time ago (which it did for a little bit I believe). So what's the deal right now?

[Amit12]

Basically what they are preaching agaisnt..... Is what taksalis still follow ( sampardaas, deras etc. ) 

So imo thats why it hurts them. DONT HAVE ANY INFO ON NKJ tho, cuz i never heard of them before this scene.

[Guest Singh]

Protestors Cause Disruption at Hounslow Gurdwara; Police Enters Guru’s Darbar to Control Situation

By Sikh24 Editors -

 

December 10, 2018

 

Protestors using profanity in the presence of the Guru’s Darbar

HONSLOW, West London, UK—On Saturday, December 8, violence erupted at Gurdwara Singh Sabha, Alice Way, Hounslow, after a Taksali protest turned violent. Aggression and intimidation by Taksali protestors led to London’s Metropolitan Police surrounding the Gurdwara and entering the Darbar Sahib with shoes on.

Several people, including a young child, were left with injuries after getting caught up by Taksali protestors pushing the police officers. Another young man was choked by a Taksali protestor in the Darbar but freed by Gursikhs in the Sangat enraged by the hooligan behaviour of the Taksali protestors.

According to the President of the Gurdwara, S. Gurmeet Singh, a large number of Taksali protestors had traveled in coaches from Birmingham and Wolverhampton. Other Taksali's had come from Slough and Southall. Leaders of West Midlands Gurdwaras associated with Gurdwara Guru Hargobind Sahib Tividale were present as lead protestors and were seen instigating Taksali youth towards violence.

Last month, a video statement was made from Gurdwara Guru Hargobind Sahib Tividale in the presence of other Gurdwara representatives in the West Midlands, threatening protests at Gurdwaras wherever Nirvair Khalsa Jatha was invited. Speaking on behalf of 5 Gurdwaras in Sandwell, Birmingham, the video called for all Gurdwaras to ban Nirvair Khalsa Jatha for “preaching”. These threats have been further fuelled by internet trolls on Facebook who have been targeting Harinder Singh with vicious messages of hate, leading to incitement of potential violence.

Internet troll on Facebook inciting the protest online

After an aggressive protest and threats of violence made at Gurdwara Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib in Leicester, Harinder Singh took the decision to postpone all UK programmes. However, two weeks ago, the group had decided to continue their programmes, beginning with the programme that was scheduled yesterday at Hounslow.

Children awaiting to for the simran program. A 5-year-old child was injured when a protestor went to push Police officers.

Harinder Singh of Nirvair Khalsa Jatha (NKJ) was scheduled to do a programme at the Gurdwara at 6.30pm. Speaking from the speaker stand, the Head Granthi of the Gurdwara invited the protesters to come to the stage “if they had anyone who wanted to do 15, 20 or 30 minutes of Katha of Gurbani.”

“In the absence of anyone taking up the offer, Harinder Singh will be given the stage in accordance to the majority of the Sangat’s wishes,” he told the sangat.

Sangat trying to calm a vocal protestor

Video footage shows one lead protestor, Jaswinder Singh from Willenhall, standing up and saying they are here to oppose and stop Harinder Singh. Seconds into Harinder Singh being invited to the stage, several individuals, namely Jaswinder Singh from Willenhall and Amarjit Singh from Hounslow, stood up and began shouting and the situation soon escalated into violence.

One eyewitness reported, “Several anonymous Facebook IDs have been set up by Taksali's that have time and again posted unsubstantiated accusations of grooming and sexual misbehaviour by Harinder Singh of Nirvair Khalsa Jatha, and other nonsense.” He added, “The Facebook IDs is part of a wider campaign to instigate hatred and violence with unsupported claims against any preacher who does not fit a particular group’s religious ideology. I hope the law enforcement authorities take strict action against those stirring trouble in the Sikh community.”  

On 15 July 2015, after an investigation of a complaint, the UK Police dismissed all fake charges against Bhai Harinder Singh of Nirvair Khalsa Jatha. Sikh24 urges all those with credible proof against Harinder Singh or other members of the Nirvair Khalsa Jatha the Police and Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

This kind of witch hunting is a recent phenomenon in the Sikh community and could lead to severe consequences for anyone who has differing views of Sikhi to another religious group. If there is an opposition to any preacher for their religious views or issues relating to their moral character, then individuals, or groups should take credible proofs they have collected to the representatives of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and or the national Sikh body of the country they live, like the Sikh Council UK in this case, to investigate and take action. Defaming preachers and individuals on the Internet with no proof or evidence using anonymous IDs is not a Sikh way. Furthermore, for Taksali's to disturb the Guru’s Darbar with profanity and violence makes them liable for ‘Thankhah’ (chastisement) in accordance with Panthik traditions.

A spokesperson from the Metropolitan Police said: “Police were called on the evening of Saturday, 8 December following reports of a disturbance at the Gurdwara Singh temple in Alice Way, Hounslow. A number of people are believed to have gained access to the temple to protest. Police attended and worked with temple staff to calm the situation.”

Police Officers with shoes in the Guru’s Darbar

Twenty five police officers had to form a human chain around the stage to protect Harinder Singh’s safety from the Taksali protestors. Sikhs worldwide have condemned Taksali's who were hellbent on causing disruption, intimidation, and violence on Saturday night, causing Police to intervene with their shoes on and heads uncovered, violating the sanctity of the Guru’s Darbar.

[Akalifauj]

51 minutes ago, Amit12 said:

Basically what they are preaching agaisnt..... Is what taksalis still follow ( sampardaas, deras etc. ) 

So imo thats why it hurts them. DONT HAVE ANY INFO ON NKJ tho, cuz i never heard of them before this scene.

First you give a ridiculous reason why taksal is against NKJ.  Then you say you don't have ANY info on NKJ.  How could you know why taksal is against NKJ when you don't have ANY info on NKJ? You hate DamDami Taksal because they have the courage to stand up for Sikhi, which means standing up for human rights.  They Gave their lives for humanity and didn't take a step back.  You can't even admit Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the only true Guru who can take any one to Vaheguru when the person follows to the letter, which includes repeating Vaheguru with love not stop for hours as Gurbani instructs Sikhs.  You hate them because they are committed to the most noble cause when you sit at home thinking and can't produce anything.

Your atheist website needs to send better trained posters to influence this website viewers.  

If the original poster wants to know why any person should be against NKJ.  Then go to the other thread already started and view the video I posted. You will be disgusted even before the video ends.

[Guest Brainwashpropaganda]

why the heck are people bringing up the taksali issue? yes taksali peeople have answered back to dhadrism twisted views on sikhi but every single person protesting against harinder is not a taksali. this is no taksal vs dhadrism issue. the point is the rubbish coming out  of nkj and dhadhs mouth, that is the main issue and it is mainly taksalis that have raised a voice. 

[Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh]

Both the NKJ and Taksal are wrong un's...in equal measure. The NKJ work with a very sneaky strategy. Their strategy is to use gimmicks to first appeal to the older females in Sikh families....i.e. the mother / wife. This gimmick involves using sound effects / echo effects in order to portray the illusion that something truly profound is being said as well as giving Gurbani a bollywood style sound makeover that will appeal to the sons and daughters of those females. The objective is to get those mothers to introduce their husbands and children to the Gurdwara by telling them that these guys don't do "boring old kirtan". No. These guys have "jazzed it up" so that it will appeal to the yoots dem. And there you have it: a jazzed up illusion that is making them rich. REALLY rich !!   But, you can't beat them with the "rich" stick because they have even adopted the strategy of the 1980's American mega-rich Christian Evangelists by invoking the 'prosperity doctrine'. The NKJ, in their kathas, tell other people not to value possessions and riches but publicly say their own riches are justified because it is Guru's hukum and you can't help poorer people unless you are first in a position of power (i.e. have money). This, my friends, is the strategy of charlatan evangelists being used on impressionable badly educated Sikhs.

The Taksalis, on the other hand, are just pointless. They don't do anything. A current pale shadow of what they once were.

2 things then sum up everything that is currently wrong with the panth:

1) The Cult of Personality

2) The Prosperity Gospel

 

 

btw.....I notice some of you are still criticising the protest against NKJ so I will paste again what I said a few days in another thread but the Mods never posted it:

I think it's important that we all discard for one moment our UK, Canada and America learned notions of how arguments, points and protests should be made and understand the historical / cultural differences.  Before I do that however, let me state categorically that protesters cannot and should not be blamed for the fact that dozens of police appeared and remained before Guru ji in the diwan hall with their heads uncovered and boots on their feet. They didn't ask them to come there.....some others did. Once they were there....that should have been something that united everyone in that Gurdwara that day. Everyone there should have united in telling the Police that they MUST cover their heads and take off their boots. All sides present failed in their duty in that respect.

Now....'protests' have been on my mind the last few days given what is happening in France. This French culture of protest can really be traced back to the 17th century when the culture of 'charivari' started. It started as a culture of mobs forming to protest against the moral transgressions of people....such as extra-marital affairs. Soon, as time went on and ideas of morality changed, it took on a more political dimension. There developed a culture of protest and the idea of the protest was to create enough disruption that their voice would have to be heard. This is very different to the anglo culture of the UK, Canada and America where the culture is to talk and negotiate and only as a last result protest if negotiations fail. And then you have in France the reality that only a very very tiny percentage of the French actually belong to a Union - much smaller than the UK and America etc. What this means is that employers in Anglo countries start negotiating with workers by making a quite reasonable offer and this fosters a negotiating atmosphere. In France that is not the case. In France the employers always make a ridiculous offer to begin with and so the accepted culture is mass protests before the thought of negotiating can even begin. I'm mentioning this because we need to understand our own collective psyche and culture - formulated through history - when it comes to the subject of protesting. Within our collective social history as Punjabi Sikhs there is nothing that points to a 'negotiate first - protest after' culture. That has never been our collective experience. Our collective cultural history, just like the French, has always been to protest...i.e make a forceful visual point first before the idea of negotiating or talking can even be considered. It's who we are. And who we are has been created by history and experiences. So by all means have discussions about the merits and shortcomings of NKJ (AKJ) and the Taksalis but please don't enforce Anglo concepts and values of how to protest upon Sikhs. Values and concepts are made by history. We have our own history.

[Guest Singh 1]

There's a couple of things happening here...

- Bhai Ranji eluded (in a program about a year ago) that the dastar of the Damdami Taksal has been removed due to Baba Harnam Singh's close association (as a chumca) of Parkash Badal.  i.e. stating that the respect that the Taksal had is now gone, due to a Taksal, started by Guru Gobing Singh Ji, is now in the pocket of a politician (a politician who is effectively a gangster & biggest destroyer of Sikhi since the mughals)

- Above was twisted by Takalis that led to a Taksali Singh attempting to kill Ranjit Singh...Ranjit Singh's colleague was shot & killed instead

- Rather than defuse the situation, Baba Harnam Singh applauded the shooter & bayed for more violence , willing to protect the shooter (is it right to endorse killing a fellow Sikh...fellow human...?)

- Allegations of 'cult of personality' made against Ranjit Singh (e.g. people touching his feet, worshiping him), with Ranjit Singh stating he can't control people from doing those all he time.

- Allegations of 'Kachi Bani' made against Ranjit Singh & Jatha. Their refute is that, Kavishiri (taddi's) Jathe should also be stopped then

- on top of that, allegations of homosexual contact (kissing simran & touching private parts) allegations made against Harinder Singh (NKJ) by a guy.  Many clips of telephone recordings on youtube.  Harinder Singh denies allegations...police investigated & case dropped...make your own determinations (also seen responses that apparently an associate of Harinder Singh was caught as a sex offender in the UK, named as Parbinder Singh)

- Per above points, Harinder Singh is aligned with Ranjit Singh, so naturally Taksali's against both Ranjit Singh & Harinder Singh

 

All those in the pot spell discourse, hatred, suspicions...

 

...Not Sat, Santokh, Daya, Sharda...& Prem

 

[Amit12]

22 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

First you give a ridiculous reason why taksal is against NKJ.  Then you say you don't have ANY info on NKJ.  How could you know why taksal is against NKJ when you don't have ANY info on NKJ? You hate DamDami Taksal because they have the courage to stand up for Sikhi, which means standing up for human rights.  They Gave their lives for humanity and didn't take a step back.  You can't even admit Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the only true Guru who can take any one to Vaheguru when the person follows to the letter, which includes repeating Vaheguru with love not stop for hours as Gurbani instructs Sikhs.  You hate them because they are committed to the most noble cause when you sit at home thinking and can't produce anything.

Your atheist website needs to send better trained posters to influence this website viewers.  

If the original poster wants to know why any person should be against NKJ.  Then go to the other thread already started and view the video I posted. You will be disgusted even before the video ends.

I gave the reason why taksalis hate dhadriawala..... ( You Wrote a whole paragraph just by Pre-assuming something ? ) 

LOL

[Akalifauj]

1 hour ago, Amit12 said:

I gave the reason why taksalis hate dhadriawala..... ( You Wrote a whole paragraph just by Pre-assuming something ? ) 

LOL

Seriously they need to rescue you from this website.....you can't understand anything 

[Amit12]

34 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Seriously they need to rescue you from this website.....you can't understand anything 

LOL, Okay