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AjeetSingh2019

Sri Raag Ashtapadis. Why 11th Ashtapadi has 10 padas rather than 8?

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So asthapadi always mean 8 pada right. Thats how its in Sukhmani Sahib.

I was going through Sri Raag Ashtapadian. 

And I notice out of total 17 ashtapadis, the 11th one has 10 ashtapadi rather than 8 .

For eg: the number at end of each ashtapadi is like 

8 || 1 ||

8 || 2 ||

8 || 3 ||

....

8 || 10 || 

and then strangely 10 || 11 ||

then becomes usual again with 8 || 12 ||

8 || 13 || 

.... 8 || 17 ||

 

why is this so ?? (ang no 64)

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Because that particular Astpadi has 10 Tuks, and there are many examples of this throughout Gurbani. 

Everyone knows what a Sawayiaa is, yet when you read Bhattaan De Sawayie, you can see that they don't necessarily follow that same structure. 

I believe I heard this in a katha of Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindran Wale, that which Gurbani is written in Astpadis, Sawaiye, Chhants etc. Gurbani is swatantar, and is not bound by these rules, hence this

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2 hours ago, Koi said:

Because that particular Astpadi has 10 Tuks, and there are many examples of this throughout Gurbani. 

Everyone knows what a Sawayiaa is, yet when you read Bhattaan De Sawayie, you can see that they don't necessarily follow that same structure. 

I believe I heard this in a katha of Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindran Wale, that which Gurbani is written in Astpadis, Sawaiye, Chhants etc. Gurbani is swatantar, and is not bound by these rules, hence this

This doesn't make any sense. sorry. I know it has 10 padas with 3 tuks each. 

But in an ashtapadi it should only have 8 tuks. Like in sukhmani sahib.

Thats why its called "asht"(8) padi .

Your answer doesn't answer my question sadly.

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On 5/10/2020 at 10:56 AM, AjeetSingh2019 said:

This doesn't make any sense. sorry. I know it has 10 padas with 3 tuks each. 

But in an ashtapadi it should only have 8 tuks. Like in sukhmani sahib.

Thats why its called "asht"(8) padi .

Your answer doesn't answer my question sadly.

See, I appreciate that this may not satisfy you, but it is the answer nonetheless. However, I'm more than happy to concede that I may not have explained it properly, and for anyone else to expand further🙏🏾

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Like @Koi has explained Maharaj sets the boundaries but if need be, they'll tweak them as well. 

You will find this throughout Gurbani. Off the top of my head, look at Raag Maru sohley. Each shabad should have 16 sections as the name states - sohley. However, there are many instances where shabads have 17 sections. 

Unfortunately I can't pinpoint the katha that I heard explaining this phenomena, but I'd start to listen to Giani Kulwant Singh as he great at explaining this type of thing.

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19 hours ago, ssinghuk said:

Like @Koi has explained Maharaj sets the boundaries but if need be, they'll tweak them as well. 

You will find this throughout Gurbani. Off the top of my head, look at Raag Maru sohley. Each shabad should have 16 sections as the name states - sohley. However, there are many instances where shabads have 17 sections. 

Unfortunately I can't pinpoint the katha that I heard explaining this phenomena, but I'd start to listen to Giani Kulwant Singh as he great at explaining this type of thing.

Honestly makes no sense. esp when doing for just one asta-padi out of 17 total.

This needs further research actually. Rules are not meant to be tweaked like that. We need further intellectual research in this.

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On 5/15/2020 at 12:21 AM, AjeetSingh2019 said:

Honestly makes no sense. esp when doing for just one asta-padi out of 17 total.

This needs further research actually. Rules are not meant to be tweaked like that. We need further intellectual research in this.

Research has already been done. In SGGS Ji, Ashtpadi can have 8, 9, 10, 11, etc paddas. Guru Sahib never used the word Naupadda, Daspada, etc. to label a Shabad.

Otherwise, a whole new section in the Raag would need to be made just for Naupaddas Daspaddas etc. (this is just my theory)

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14 hours ago, FreshMind13 said:

Research has already been done. In SGGS Ji, Ashtpadi can have 8, 9, 10, 11, etc paddas. Guru Sahib never used the word Naupadda, Daspada, etc. to label a Shabad.

Otherwise, a whole new section in the Raag would need to be made just for Naupaddas Daspaddas etc. (this is just my theory)

So hv u verified ashtapadi has 8, 9 , 10 and till 11 only.

11 is significant because rigveda also has a thing called "tristubh" meter in which most of Rigveda hymns are written and it has 11 mantras each 

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7 hours ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

So hv u verified ashtapadi has 8, 9 , 10 and till 11 only.

11 is significant because rigveda also has a thing called "tristubh" meter in which most of Rigveda hymns are written and it has 11 mantras each 

No my point was that in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, Ashtpaddi refers to a Shabad that has 8 or more paddas.

Here is an example of an Ashtpadi with 12 ਪਦੇ, made up of ਚਉਤੁਕੇ, and the ending one is a ਛੇਤੁਕਾ:

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ਸਾਰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਅਸਟਪਦੀ ਘਰੁ ੬ ॥
ਅਗਮ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਨ ਕਥਾ ॥
ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਅਚਰਜ ਸਭਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਮਸਕਾਰ ॥
ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਇ ਅਪਾਰ ॥
ਮਨ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ॥
ਗਿਆਨ ਅੰਜਨੁ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
ਮਿਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੁ ॥
ਸੋਭਾ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਅਪਰ ਅਪਾਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਰੰਗ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਗਨੇ ਨ ਜਾਹਿ ॥
ਸੋਗ ਹਰਖ ਦੁਹਹੂ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬੇਦ ਧੁਨਿ ਕਰਹਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਮਹੇਸ ਬੈਸਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਧਰਹਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪੁਰਖ ਅੰਸਾ ਅਵਤਾਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਊਭੇ ਦਰਬਾਰ ॥੩॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪਵਨ ਪਾਵਕ ਅਰੁ ਨੀਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਰਤਨ ਸਾਗਰ ਦਧਿ ਖੀਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਸੂਰ ਸਸੀਅਰ ਨਖਿਆਤਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ॥੪॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਬਸੁਧਾ ਅਨਿਕ ਕਾਮਧੇਨ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪਾਰਜਾਤ ਅਨਿਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਬੇਨ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਅਕਾਸ ਅਨਿਕ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਮੁਖੀ ਜਪੀਐ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥੫॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਪੁਰਾਨ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਹੋਵਤ ਬਖਿਆਨ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਸਰੋਤੇ ਸੁਨਹਿ ਨਿਧਾਨ ॥
ਸਰਬ ਜੀਅ ਪੂਰਨ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੬॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਧਰਮ ਅਨਿਕ ਕੁਮੇਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਬਰਨ ਅਨਿਕ ਕਨਿਕ ਸੁਮੇਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਸੇਖ ਨਵਤਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇਹਿ ॥
ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਤੇਹਿ ॥੭॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਅਨਿਕ ਤਹ ਖੰਡ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਬਨਾ ਅਨਿਕ ਫਲ ਮੂਲ ॥
ਆਪਹਿ ਸੂਖਮ ਆਪਹਿ ਅਸਥੂਲ ॥੮॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਦਿਨਸ ਅਰੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪਰਲਉ ਅਨਿਕ ਉਤਪਾਤਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੀਅ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
ਰਮਤ ਰਾਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਇ ॥੯॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਲਖੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਕਲਾ ਖੇਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਧੁਨਿਤ ਲਲਿਤ ਸੰਗੀਤ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਗੁਪਤ ਪ੍ਰਗਟੇ ਤਹ ਚੀਤ ॥੧੦॥
ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚ ਭਗਤ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ॥
ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਰੰਗਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਅਨਾਹਦ ਆਨੰਦ ਝੁਨਕਾਰ ॥
ਉਆ ਰਸ ਕਾ ਕਛੁ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰ ॥੧੧॥
ਸਤਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਤਿ ਅਸਥਾਨੁ ॥
ਊਚ ਤੇ ਊਚ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਿਰਬਾਨੁ ॥
ਅਪੁਨਾ ਕੀਆ ਜਾਨਹਿ ਆਪਿ ॥
ਆਪੇ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਿਆਪਿ ॥
ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਇਆਲ ॥
ਜਿਨਿ ਜਪਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੧੨॥੧॥੨॥੨॥੩॥੭॥ (ਅੰਗ ੧੨੩੫)

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11 hours ago, FreshMind13 said:

No my point was that in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, Ashtpaddi refers to a Shabad that has 8 or more paddas.

Here is an example of an Ashtpadi with 12 ਪਦੇ, made up of ਚਉਤੁਕੇ, and the ending one is a ਛੇਤੁਕਾ:

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ਸਾਰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਅਸਟਪਦੀ ਘਰੁ ੬ ॥
ਅਗਮ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਨ ਕਥਾ ॥
ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਅਚਰਜ ਸਭਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਮਸਕਾਰ ॥
ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਇ ਅਪਾਰ ॥
ਮਨ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ॥
ਗਿਆਨ ਅੰਜਨੁ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
ਮਿਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੁ ॥
ਸੋਭਾ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਅਪਰ ਅਪਾਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਰੰਗ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਗਨੇ ਨ ਜਾਹਿ ॥
ਸੋਗ ਹਰਖ ਦੁਹਹੂ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬੇਦ ਧੁਨਿ ਕਰਹਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਮਹੇਸ ਬੈਸਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਧਰਹਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪੁਰਖ ਅੰਸਾ ਅਵਤਾਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਊਭੇ ਦਰਬਾਰ ॥੩॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪਵਨ ਪਾਵਕ ਅਰੁ ਨੀਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਰਤਨ ਸਾਗਰ ਦਧਿ ਖੀਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਸੂਰ ਸਸੀਅਰ ਨਖਿਆਤਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ॥੪॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਬਸੁਧਾ ਅਨਿਕ ਕਾਮਧੇਨ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪਾਰਜਾਤ ਅਨਿਕ ਮੁਖਿ ਬੇਨ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਅਕਾਸ ਅਨਿਕ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਮੁਖੀ ਜਪੀਐ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥੫॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਪੁਰਾਨ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਹੋਵਤ ਬਖਿਆਨ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਸਰੋਤੇ ਸੁਨਹਿ ਨਿਧਾਨ ॥
ਸਰਬ ਜੀਅ ਪੂਰਨ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੬॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਧਰਮ ਅਨਿਕ ਕੁਮੇਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਬਰਨ ਅਨਿਕ ਕਨਿਕ ਸੁਮੇਰ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਸੇਖ ਨਵਤਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇਹਿ ॥
ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਤੇਹਿ ॥੭॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਅਨਿਕ ਤਹ ਖੰਡ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਬਨਾ ਅਨਿਕ ਫਲ ਮੂਲ ॥
ਆਪਹਿ ਸੂਖਮ ਆਪਹਿ ਅਸਥੂਲ ॥੮॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਦਿਨਸ ਅਰੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਪਰਲਉ ਅਨਿਕ ਉਤਪਾਤਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਜੀਅ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
ਰਮਤ ਰਾਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਇ ॥੯॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਲਖੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਕਲਾ ਖੇਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਧੁਨਿਤ ਲਲਿਤ ਸੰਗੀਤ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਗੁਪਤ ਪ੍ਰਗਟੇ ਤਹ ਚੀਤ ॥੧੦॥
ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚ ਭਗਤ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ॥
ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਰੰਗਿ ॥
ਅਨਿਕ ਅਨਾਹਦ ਆਨੰਦ ਝੁਨਕਾਰ ॥
ਉਆ ਰਸ ਕਾ ਕਛੁ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰ ॥੧੧॥
ਸਤਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਤਿ ਅਸਥਾਨੁ ॥
ਊਚ ਤੇ ਊਚ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਿਰਬਾਨੁ ॥
ਅਪੁਨਾ ਕੀਆ ਜਾਨਹਿ ਆਪਿ ॥
ਆਪੇ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਿਆਪਿ ॥
ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਇਆਲ ॥
ਜਿਨਿ ਜਪਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੧੨॥੧॥੨॥੨॥੩॥੭॥ (ਅੰਗ ੧੨੩੫)

This is a very big mystery. 

Who can answer this

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On 5/24/2020 at 4:47 AM, AjeetSingh2019 said:

This is a very big mystery. 

Who can answer this

I suggest you listen to the katha of Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindran Wale🙏🏾 for a more comprehensive answer

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