FreshMind13

I will show other examples aside from Purewal then: An Indian Ephemeris, Vol VI, Swamikannu Pillai Pancanga software (version 3.14), By M. YANO and M. FUSHIMI, Kyoto University, Japan. According to Purewal, if we use 1754 Sammat, Bhadon Sudi 8 comes on Sunday. Maybe Guru Sahib used elapsed years instead of Vartmaan years? This is a question for scholars to look at Puratan Birhs of Sri Dasam Granth or do research in history to figure out why. I have given the math.

Nanakshahi was released in 2003, how could he have used a year in the future? 23 Poh, 2064 BK was on January 7, 2008 and Poh Sudi 7, 2064 BK was on January 15, 2008. There was no "base year". I'm still baffled by this as mathematically, when calculating Nanakshahi dates, there is no base year used anywhere.

So are we just going to attack Purewal or the Nanakshahi Calendar? And btw, Purewal's calculation for that date is not wrong. It is corroborated with many Jantris published by other Panchang scholars. Guru Sahib cannot be wrong, Guru Sahib is perfect. But we have to acknowledge not everything is black and white.

Guru Sahib Ji has written 2 Barah Maha's in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, there is one Barah Maha in Sri Dasam Granth as well. Guru Sahib has written the Ruti Salok bani, and there are three banis that talk about Tithis. To say that Guru Sahib talked about the months is an understatement. Nakakshahi has 12 months, starting from Chet as it is the first month in Barah Maha. Using the Tropical Year, it keeps the calendar in sync with the Ruts given in the Barah Maha and in Ruti Salok. In the month of Asarh (Harh), in Barah Mah Tukhari, Guru Nanak Dev Ji says: ਰਥੁ ਫਿਰੈ ਛਾਇਆ ਧਨ ਤਾਕੈ ਟੀਡੁ ਲਵੈ ਮੰਝਿ ਬਾਰੇ ॥ ਰਥੁ ਫਿਰੈ refers to the Summer Solstice (Dakhshnayn) which Guru Sahib has described in the month of Harh. In less than 500 years, around year 2400, the summer solstice will start occurring in the month of Jeth. This is due to Bikrami using the Sidereal Year. Nanakshahi using the Tropical Year will still the Summer Solstice in the month of Harh.

His reason #1 still stands, Bikrami uses the Nirayana Year, not the Sayana Year, so it's not linked to the seasons. Anyway, I'm not going to comment on his theological arguments for Nanakshahi, I can only support him on a scientific and Gurbani basis.

Maybe Purewal got some dates wrong, he is human. But most of his dates are consistent with other books aside from him using Punjab sangrand rules. From what I read, Purewal didn't even want to get his book published because his calculations didn't match the dates in Sri Dasam Granth. He has explained that here. I was also banned from Anurag Singh's facebook comments because I proved him wrong on his points. He does not even know the difference between the Julian Calendar and the Gregorian calendar. I read his facebook posts on Nanakshahi, they don't have much substance aside from attacking Purewal by using ad hominem attacks. Yes, it used to only be a sammat, not a full calendar. I mentioned it used Bikrami calculations. Not quite so. Both systems of measuring the length of the year, Sidereal (Nirayana) and Tropical (Sayana) are well mentioned in Indian Astronomy. Nanakshahi uses the Sayana system rather than the Nirayana system used by Bikrami. The reason for this so the calendar stays in-sync with the axis of the Earth, which causes it to stay in sync with the seasons (in Punjab). I mentioned this before. This argument does not hold up. There is no such thing as a "Base Year". No Nanakshahi Calculations use a base year. The Bikrami Date for 23 Poh (in 1999/2055BK) was January 7th, 1999. The Lunar Date of Poh Sudi 7, 2055BK was on December 25, 1998. If we use the actual year of Guru Sahib's Parkash, it would have been January 1st (check the table I posted earlier). Where did he use Bikrami of 1999? Nowhere. This is a misunderstanding of how Nanakshahi dates were calculated. Read what I had posted earlier. This isn't some arbitrary date as people people like to make it out.

Did you even read my explanation where the January 5th date comes from? Stop making a strawman.

I have created a table of the dates in various calendars. Parkash Dates Guru Sahib Bikrami Lunar Bikrami Solar Nanakshahi Julian Gregorian Weekday Guru Nanak Dev Ji Katak Sudi 15 (Pooranmashi), 1526 BK 21 Katak, 1526 BK (Uses Lunar) October 20th, 1469 October 29th, 1469 Friday Guru Angad Dev Ji Vaisakh Vadi 1, 1561 BK 5 Vaisakh, 1561 BK 5 Vaisakh, 36 NS March 31st, 1504 April 10th, 1504 Sunday Guru Amar Das Ji Vaisakh Sudi 14, 1536 BK 9 Jeth, 1536 BK 9 Jeth, 11 NS May 5th, 1479 May 14th, 1479 Wednesday Guru Ram Das Ji Katak Vadi 2, 1591 BK 25 Assu, 1591 BK 25 Assu, 66 NS September 24th, 1534 October 4th, 1534 Thursday Guru Arjan Dev Ji Vaisakh Vadi 7, 1620 BK 19 Vaisakh, 1620 BK 19 Vaisakh, 95 NS April 15th, 1563 April 25th, 1563 Thursday Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji Harh Vadi 7, 1652 BK 21 Harh, 1652 BK 21 Harh, 127 NS June 19th, 1595 June 29th, 1595 Thursday Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji Magh Sudi 13, 1686 BK 19 Magh, 1686 BK 19 Magh, 161 NS January 16th, 1630 January 26th, 1630 Saturday Guru Harkrishan Sahib Ji Savan Vadi 10, 1713 BK 8 Savan, 1713 BK 8 Savan, 188 NS July 7th, 1656 July 17th, 1656 Monday Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Vaisakh Vadi 5, 1678 BK 5 Vaisakh, 1678 BK 5 Vaisakh, 153 NS April 1st, 1621 April 11th, 1621 Sunday Guru Gobind Singh Ji Poh Sudi 7, 1723 BK 23 Poh, 1723 BK 23 Poh, 198 NS December 22nd, 1666 January 1st, 1667 Saturday Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (First Parkash) Bhadon Sudi 1, 1661 BK 17 Bhadon, 1661 BK 17 Bhadon, 136 NS August 16th, 1604 August 26th, 1604 Thursday Gurgaddi Dates Guru Sahib Bikrami Lunar Bikrami Solar Nanakshahi Julian Gregorian Weekday Guru Nanak Dev Ji (From Parkash) * * * * * Guru Angad Dev Ji Assu Vadi 5, 1596 BK 4 Assu, 1596 BK 4 Assu, 71 NS September 3rd, 1539 September 13th, 1539 Wednesday Guru Amar Das Ji Chet Sudi 4, 1609 BK 3 Vaisakh, 1609 BK 3 Vaisakh, 84 NS March 29th, 1552 April 8th, 1552 Tuesday Guru Ram Das Ji Bhadon Sudi 15 (Pooranmashi), 1631 BK 2 Assu, 1631 BK 2 Assu, 106 NS September 1st, 1574 September 11th, 1574 Wednesday Guru Arjan Dev Ji Bhadon Sudi 3, 1638 BK 2 Assu, 1638 BK 2 Assu, 113 NS September 1st, 1581 September 11th, 1581 Friday Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji Jeth Vadi 14, 1663 BK 28 Jeth, 1663 BK 28 Jeth, 138 NS May 25th, 1606 June 4th, 1606 Sunday Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji Chet Vadi 15 (Massia), 1701 BK 1 Chet, 1701 BK 1 Chet, 176 NS February 27th, 1644 March 8th, 1644 Tuesday Guru Harkrishan Sahib Ji Katak Vadi 9, 1718 BK 6 Katak, 1718 BK 6 Katak, 193 NS October 6th, 1661 October 16th, 1661 Sunday Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Chet Sudi 14, 1721 BK 3 Vaisakh, 1721 BK 3 Vaisakh, 196 NS March 30th, 1664 April 9th, 1664 Wednesday Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maghar Sudi 5, 1732 BK 11 Maghar, 1732 BK 11 Maghar, 207 NS November 11th, 1675 November 21st, 1675 Thursday Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Katak Sudi 4, 1765 BK 6 Katak, 1765 BK 6 Katak, 240 NS October 6th, 1708 October 17th, 1708 Wednesday Joti Jot Dates Guru Sahib Bikrami Lunar Bikrami Solar Nanakshahi Julian Gregorian Weekday Guru Nanak Dev Ji Assu Vadi 10, 1596 BK 8 Assu, 1596 BK 8 Assu, 71 NS September 7th, 1539 September 17th, 1539 Sunday Guru Angad Dev Ji Chet Sudi 4, 1609 BK 3 Vaisakh, 1609 BK 3 Vaisakh, 84 NS March 29th, 1552 April 8th, 1552 Tuesday Guru Amar Das Ji Bhadon Sudi 15 (Pooranmashi), 1631 BK 2 Assu, 1631 BK 2 Assu, 106 NS September 1st, 1574 September 11th, 1574 Wednesday Guru Ram Das Ji Bhadon Sudi 3, 1638 BK 2 Assu, 1638 BK 2 Assu, 113 NS September 1st, 1581 September 11th, 1581 Friday Guru Arjan Dev Ji Jeth Sudi 4, 1663 BK 2 Harh, 1663 BK 2 Harh, 138 NS May 30th, 1606 June 9th, 1606 Friday Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji Chet Sudi 5, 1701 BK (Adhik Month/Mal Maas) 6 Chet, 1701 BK 6 Chet, 176 NS March 3rd, 1644 March 13th, 1644 Sunday Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji Katak Vadi 9, 1718 BK 6 Katak, 1718 BK 6 Katak, 193 NS October 6th, 1661 October 16th, 1661 Sunday Guru Harkrishan Sahib Ji Chet Sudi 14, 1721 BK 3 Vaisakh, 1721 BK 3 Vaisakh, 196 NS March 30th, 1664 April 9th, 1664 Wednesday Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Maghar Sudi 5, 1732 BK 11 Maghar, 1732 BK 11 Maghar, 207 NS November 11th, 1675 November 21st, 1675 Thursday Guru Gobind Singh Ji Katak Sudi 5, 1765 BK 7 Katak, 1765 BK 7 Katak, 240 NS October 7th, 1708 October 18th, 1708 Thursday Other Dates Event Bikrami Lunar Bikrami Solar Nanakshahi Julian Gregorian Weekday Creation of Khalsa N/A 1 Vaisakh, 1756 BK 1 Vaisakh, 231 NS March 29th, 1699 April 8th, 1699 Wednesday Shaheedi Elder Sahibzaade N/A 8 Poh, 1761 BK 8 Poh, 236 NS December 7th, 1704 December 18th, 1704 Thursday Shaheedi Younger Sahibzaade N/A 13 Poh, 1761 BK 13 Poh, 236 NS December 12th, 1704 December 23rd, 1704 Tuesday Completion of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Bhadon Vadi 3, 1763 BK 15 Bhadon, 1763 BK 15 Bhadon, 238 NS August 15th, 1706 August 26th, 1706 Thursday

The rush was from Gurcharan Singh Tohra who asked Purewal to make the calendar after seeing is work on converting Bikrami dates I believe. Maybe someone else can elaborate more.

I won't deny maybe he had ego, but that is more of a motive question. I mentioned earlier that politics got in the way of things, I try to stay focused on the science and technicalities.

Yea, first we should have at least Audio Tapes or transcripts from Sri Akal Takht Sahib released. Purewal didn't get to implement his calendar fully though, as Baba Kashmira Singh and others wanted to keep three dates (Parkash Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Holla, and Bandi Shhor/Diwali) as Lunar Dates. There was definitely some criticism of Purewal. I personally don't agree with him on Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Parkash being on 1 Vaisakh, I still believe its was on Katak Pooranmashi. But this is a issue for historians, not me.

He was at various meetings at Sri Akal Takht Sahib where he presented his ideas there. Many scholars and Sants where there. Maybe SGPC should make transcripts of the meetings available. You can go to Purewal's website and read his papers there. Missionaries don't do the calendar any justice, they support it because of their agendas, not because of the science behind it. Ask any of them what are calculations behind Nanakshahi are and they will fall silent (same can be said for Bikrami supporters, some don't even know its a luni-solor calendar).

I'm not going to reply to the emotional and personal attacks, keeping it strictly on the technicalities. Purewal never fixed the date to January 5th. He converted the Lunar Bikrami Date (Poh Sudi 7, 1723 BK) to the Solar Bikrami Date (23 Poh, 1723 BK). Since Nanakshahi has the same months as Bikrami, 23 Poh became Parkash. In Nanakshahi, Poh Sangrand is December 14. If we add 23 Days to December 14 we get January 5th or 23 Poh. I recommend reading the English version of the Surya Sidhantta for more detail and research papers on Indian astronomy which is a very old subject, India has been doing astronomy for many centuries and they were very accurate at it too until now where we have computers and satellites to track stars and Earth's movement. Celebrating on different dates isn't a feature of the Bikrami calendar, it is the method in which the days are calculated. Do you have any evidence in support of this claim? Nanakshahi is based of Bikrami, however instead of using the Sidereal Year (Nirayana Year), it uses the Tropical Year (Sayana Year) and the Sangrands are not based off of Sankranti (when the sun enters a sidereal zodiac). Look up calendars such as the revised Julian calendar or the Iranian Solar Hijri Calendar. These have much better rules to match the tropical year than Gregorian. What is so extremist about this? Do some research in astronomy first.

I've read Col. Nishan Singh arguments. He makes the mistake of mixing Nanakshahi, Gregorian, and Julian calendars. Purewal never even touched Gregorian or Julian, he only converted between Bikrami calendar systems. While I do respect Col. Nishan Singh, he wants us to celebrate Parkash of Guru Gobind Singh Ji on January 1st (the Gregorian Date). This completely rids us of any desi months and dates.

Yea, these people do more harm then good for the argument for the Nanakshahi calendar. Nanakshahi is based of Bikrami, but it uses different calculations. Saying Bikrami is a Hindu or Brahman calendar would make Nanakshahi the same because it's based off of Bikrami. The only thing "Brahman" about Bikrami was that you had to go to a Pandit, but now you can do the calculations yourself by reading British translations of their Sanskrit texts (mainly Surya Sidhantta). So that argument doesn't hold up. People who make those arguments are usually missionary types. I base my argument on the actual math and science behind the calendar. To my surprise, there is much discussion about the Bikrami Calendar in the Hindu world today. Traditional Hindus want to maintain their traditional calculations as mentioned in the Surya Sidhantta Granth, while modern Indians want to use modern calculations called Drik Gannit. I don't like saying the calendar Guru Sahib followed or favored by Purewal. The calendar is the same, but the calculations are different. Think of it as replacing the engine of a car.