What was Indira Gandhi's Personal Beef With Sikhs?

[genie]

I'm trying to understand her motivations of what lead her to the path of such death and destruction not just for so many Sikhs but herself. Early on in her life and political career she seemed to have enjoyed a good relationship with the Sikh community but things seemed to have changed around mid 70s to late 80s.

Possible reasons could be below:

• Former BJP MP sumbarimayan alleges the USSR KGB (who was allied with India during the cold war) advised her to targeting and painting Sikhs as terrorists and get the hindu votebank to win elections
• She had an estranged Sikh daughter in law manika gandhi (who was from a Sikh family married to indira's son sanjay gandhi). Rajiv gandhi and arun gandhi hated manika so maybe developed an eminity for Sikhs cos of her and wanted to teach her and her community a lesson.
• Akali Dal used Sikhs in punjab to fill mass jails with peaceful agitations opposing indira gandhi's emergency powers. It is alleged she took this very personally and wanted to teach the akali dal a lesson.
• Being a daughter of Late Prime minister Nehru perhaps she secretly held the same grudges and beliefs her father held about Sikhs that they were a "criminal tribe" when they violently resisted the partition of their homeland Punjab in 1947 and then after the horrors of partition genocide wanted what was promised to them in 1950s.

[MisterrSingh]

It's easy to get drawn into the "Hollywoodisation" of real life. Everyone needs a reason or a compelling purpose for turning evil or becoming a tyrant, right? 

No. In real life, people of the status of Mrs. Gandhi don't think like you or me. They have an objective, and they are willing to do anything to fulfil it. Past friendships, decency, and ties mean zilch. If you're in their way, and you're removable, they will not think twice about pushing you aside to maintain their grip on power or to further a cause. That's as simple as it is. We aren't talking about Darth Vader's origin story. These people have the lives of hundreds of millions or billions in their hands. Showing weakness or hesitation just won't do. To quote, ironically, a fictional figure, "It's not personal, it's business."

[ChardikalaUK]

She was power mad and wanted Congress to win in Punjab. She used Bhindranwale to break up the Akali Dal dominance but he ended up turning against her. That's all it really was, just wanting to hold onto power.

[puzzled]

Yh   she basically wanted power in punjab. She was a very power hungry competitive woman.  A lot was going on in Punjab politically in the early 80s. I think initially the akalis kept sant ji close as sant ji was very vocal about indiras corrupt ways  which politically was great for the akalis,  but then sant ji became far more popular than the akalis in punjab and the akalis were getting worried about sant jis strong influence over sikh matters    indiras party I think waited and took advantage of sant jis growing influence as it weakened the akalis    but then the akalis started working with congress to eliminate sant ji and his influence.

A lot of games were being played   by people like longowal. 

Iv read there also was some clashes between zail singh and cm darbara singh. At one point when the police was sent to arrest sant ji by darbara singh, zail singh rang from the central government to the punjab police and told then to slow down and let sant ji get away. The idea was to defame darbara singh. Interesting as both zail and darbara were congressmen.

[ChardikalaUK]

35 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Yh   she basically wanted power in pubjab. She was a very power hungry competitive woman.  A lot was going on in pubjab politically in the early 80s. I think initially the akalis kept sant ji close as sant ji was very vocal about indiras corrupt ways  which politically was great for the akalis,  but then sant ji became far more popular than the akalis in punjab and the akalis were getting worried about sant jis strong influence over sikh matters    indiras party I think waited and took advantage of sant jis growing influence as it weakened the akalis    but then the akalis started working with congress to illuminate sant ji and his influence.

A lot of games were being played   by people like longowal. 

Iv read there also was some clashes between zail singh and cm darbara singh. At one point when the police was sent to arrest sant ji by darbara singh, zail singh rang from the central government to the punjab police and told then to slow down and let sant ji get away. The idea was to defame darbara singh. Interesting as both zail and darbara were congressmen.

The one thing I like about the UK is when a political leader is defeated in an election he/she resigns as leader out of shame of losing and thinks the party would be better served under a different leader.

This behaviour only happens in North West Europe, America, Australia and New Zealand. No wonder they are the most successful countries in the world.

Indira lost in 1977 and should have called it a day but being the power hungry woman she was she couldn't let go. Some people say that she even had her own son Sanjay Gandhi killed as he was a threat to her rule. I wouldn't put it past her.

It's a big joke that Nehru and his family have been ruling India for the majority if the time since partition. It is nepotism to the max and the stupid public put up with it. This behaviour just breeds nepotism and corruption in the wider public.

Bluestar was purely for her to get Hindu votes, to show herself as being a tough leader.

[Premi5]

Some people say it was from a grudge related to one of her ancestors dating to Gurus' times

[genie]

17 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

Some people say it was from a grudge related to one of her ancestors dating to Gurus' times

That would be strange as it was the sacrifice of Guru Teg Bahadhur Ji in defence of kashmiri pundit brahmins (whom nehru's/indira gandhi's brahmin lineage come from). That prevented total destruction of hinduism in northern india and mass conversions of hindus to islam during auranzebs reign.

[puzzled]

1 hour ago, ChardikalaUK said:

The one thing I like about the UK is when a political leader is defeated in an election he/she resigns as leader out of shame of losing and thinks the party would be better served under a different leader.

This behaviour only happens in North West Europe, America, Australia and New Zealand. No wonder they are the most successful countries in the world.

Indira lost in 1977 and should have called it a day but being the power hungry woman she was she couldn't let go. Some people say that she even had her own son Sanjay Gandhi killed as he was a threat to her rule. I wouldn't put it past her.

It's a big joke that Nehru and his family have been ruling India for the majority if the time since partition. It is nepotism to the max and the stupid public put up with it. This behaviour just breeds nepotism and corruption in the wider public.

Bluestar was purely for her to get Hindu votes, to show herself as being a tough leader.

She really regretted operation blue star  she thought it would shut sikhs down and she would become a hero. I saw this singh interview on TV and he used to work for all india radio I think. He said after the operation she was a completely different woman. She had lost her confidence, was very anxious all the time and lost in thoughts. B4 operation bluestar he said she was a very confident strong headed woman  always thought she was right, very confident in what she said or did,  but the last time he met her after operation bluestar  he said she was a completely different woman.

The emergencey was one of the darkest periods, 100,000s of politicians, activists, protestors and media persons were sent to prison. The media and newspapers were not allowed to write anything negative about her and if they did they were sent to prison. 1000s of sikhs were sent to prison for protesting against the emergencey  under sant kartar Singh ji bhindranwale. 

On top of that during the emergencey she carried out a sterilisation programme where 100,000s of mostly young men for forcefully sterilised. Young men were picked up from universities, schools, trains, etc and operated on    her son sanjay was with her on this. 

Yh I heard as well that she got her son sanjay killed. My mum told me that even back then when he died people were saying it was set up. 

Her family have millions stashed in foreign banks. 

Shocking thing is  after all this the indian public voted for her again and she became pm again! 

 

[puzzled]

1 hour ago, Premi5 said:

Some people say it was from a grudge related to one of her ancestors dating to Gurus' times

Yh apparently gangu bhaman is their ancestor. Gangu bhaman was a kashmiri bhaman living in punjab. Nehru isnt their actual surname but a name given to the clan of bhamans that lived near a river  nehr meaning river/stream. Nehru wrote in his biography that one of his ancestors got a job under one of the later mughal emperors darbar in delhi. 

Its possible gangus kids were rewarded for his loyalty to the mughals and given a job.

It wasnt common for kashmiri pandits to side with the mughals  so its possible gangu and the ancestor nehru talks about in his biography were from the same family.

Kashmiri pandits have very rarely sided with the mughals,  the mainland bhamans on the other hand were mughal @ss lickelickers. There always had been a divide between kashmiri bandits and mainland bhamans. The kashmiri pandits were quite influenced by persian culture and learnt persian a long with sanskrit,  the mainland bhamans saw this as corruption of bhaman maryada. There were many other differences as well.

That's why when aurangzeb was forcing to convert the kashmiri pandits they came running to the sikhs and not to their bhaman brethren who had close contact with the mughals. 

Even now the kashmiri pandits are being used politically  the central government doesnt actually care about them. A lot of them have been struggling outside of kashmir. 

[genie]

11 minutes ago, puzzled said:

She really regretted operation blue star  she thought it would shut sikhs down and she would become a hero. I saw this singh interview on TV and he used to work for all india radio I think. He said after the operation she was a completely different woman. She had lost her confidence, was very anxious all the time and lost in thoughts. B4 operation bluestar he said she was a very confident strong headed woman  always thought she was right, very confident in what she said or did,  but the last time he met her after operation bluestar  he said she was a completely different woman.

The emergencey was one of the darkest periods, 100,000s of politicians, activists, protestors and media persons were sent to prison. The media and newspapers were not allowed to write anything negative about her and if they did they were sent to prison. 1000s of sikhs were sent to prison for protesting against the emergencey  under sant kartar Singh ji bhindranwale. 

On top of that during the emergencey she carried out a sterilisation programme where 100,000s of mostly young men for forcefully sterilised. Young men were picked up from universities, schools, trains, etc and operated on    her son sanjay was with her on this. 

Yh I heard as well that she got her son sanjay killed. My mum told me that even back then when he died people were saying it was set up. 

Her family have millions stashed in foreign banks. 

Shocking thing is  after all this the indian public voted for her again and she became pm again! 

 

In my opinion indira gandhi didnt think operation blue star would be the huge disaster that it turned out to be. She probably was advised either that sant bhindranwale and dharmi fauj would surrender when the indian army showed up or at the very least the secret commando's she had hidden within the sangat would do the assassination/kidnap job on Sant ji and it would be a limited operation with very minimum casualties. I think those who wanted a greater carnage were the likes of Rajiv and arun gandhi the same ones who were responsible for the brutal anti-sikh genocide all over india after indira's death.

The operation did not go to plan so the Indian army panicked and after it was all over the indian state propaganda machine was in a state of panic trying to justify the motives of the government to the world and to the indian communities aboard. They even hurriedly filmed general brar giving commentary to justify what they did and what weapons they had recovered but we can hear gunshots were still going on while he was giving his hap-hazard interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-2nbrjP7Qo

 

What i think the congress indian establishment initially wanted to do was come out as hero's with the army displaying weapons to the world that they had put there themselves (via R&AW agents) having been recovered from so called "sikh terrorists". Having appeased the hindu votebank for a problem they had created they wanted to capitalise on that for political purposes. What actually happened was a bloodbath not just of Sikh civilians and fighters but their own troops many of them elite commando's. Indian army Sikh soldiers across the country broke ranks rebelled and killed their commanding officers and fought their own side all over indian bases. Huge blunder, very shameful very embarrassing for the indian state and Indian army for generations to come.

Sanjay's death i think could be linked to his brother Rajiv gandhi or Arun gandhi or some other deep state establishment actors we are unaware of so far. Perhaps outside forces like the USSR KGB? who saw sanjay as a threat for not following their communist agenda?..... or perhaps the CIA/M16 whose operatives were known to be working in india against USSR aligned Indian govt. Indira considered sanjay as the apple of her eye his death changed her into a more cold hearted woman so any suggestions she had him killed would be very hard to comprehend. Operation blue star shook her to the core made her paranoid and hoping Sikhs would forgive her by visiting darbar sahib in july 1984 she even delusionaly had dreams of old sikh man protecting her and thus thought that ment her elite Sikh bodyguards would protect her from what was to come.

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence or common sense within a country's establishment would know not attack the centre of a peoples religion. Especially a religion that tends to have very militant followers willing to die for their faith to avenge any attack on it. So those who advised gandhi obviously either had low IQ or wanted the carnage of Sikhs and eventually her dead and out of the way because they if they did any research on Sikh history they would have known Sikhs have proud traditions of revenge/ justice operations that target those leaders who order attacks on Sikhs.