Dalits and OBC tribes don't like gita!

[shastarSingh]

Spiritually we don't need the parchar of kachi bani of gita from our stages.

Thinking a bit more politically, there are crores of dalits, kabirpanthis, sikligars, vanjaras and many other OBC tribes who are prospective candidates of Sikhism.

These so called lower caste people hv problem with gita.

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/141220/commentary-op-ed/article/gita-and-obcs

Even the great leader of dalits Dr. Ambedkar has written against gita.

https://roundtableindia.co.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4347:essays-on-the-bhagwat-gita-philosophic-defence-of-counter-revolution-krishna-and-his-gita&catid=119:feature&Itemid=132

By doing parchar of gita from our stages, we will only be alienating ourselves from these crores of people who r very prospective candidates to become Sikhs.

Some of our parcharaks just to show off their scholarly skills start quoting from gita or vedantic texts. They r harming Sikhs spiritually and politically.

[shastarSingh]

Dallysingh veerji

MisterrSingh veerji

Jkvlondon sisterji

Ranjeet01 veerji

And other intelligent Sangat ji

Plz give ur opinion

[dallysingh101]

6 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Dallysingh veerji

MisterrSingh veerji

Jkvlondon sisterji

Ranjeet01 veerji

And other intelligent Sangat ji

Plz give ur opinion

Bhai ji, if we just practiced the inherent compassion and fairness embedded in the egalitarian social structure of Sikhi amongst ourselves more, I think we'd be struggling with the amount of converts we'd have coming in.  

But people aren't fools, once they get in, and see the reality of commonly practiced discrimination in the panth, many will soon get disillusioned and want to leave - exactly like a lot of the Mazhbhis and Ravidasias did. 

It's pointless highlighting the egalitarian nature of Sikhi when we can go to practically any village in Panjab and see it's not actually practiced.  

In this case, we are actually worse than Hindus. At least they have a mandate for their discrimination from certain 'scriptures' of theirs. We don't. 

Another danger point is being used and having our resources diminished by outsiders. I used to go to this small back street Gurdwara in East London years ago, and they'd be some nonSikhs (probably illegal immigrants?) who'd eat langar, but wouldn't matha tek. I remember one pardaan having a row about this with a sullah once. Some people see us as easy touches, or people who are easy to make fools of. We need to address that too.   

[shastarSingh]

24 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Bhai ji, if we just practiced the inherent compassion and fairness embedded in the egalitarian social structure Sikhi amongst ourselves more, I think we'd be struggling with the amount of converts we'd have coming in.  

But people aren't fools, once they get in, and see the reality of commonly practiced discrimination in the panth, many will soon get disillusioned and want to leave - exactly like a lot of the Mazhbhis and Ravidasias did. 

It's pointless highlighting the egalitarian nature of Sikhi when we can go to practically ay village in Panjab and see it's not actually practiced.  

In this case, we are actually worse than Hindus. At least they have a mandate for their discrimination from certain 'scriptures' of theirs. We don't. 

Another danger point is being used and having our resources diminished by outsiders. I used to go to this small back street Gurdwara in East London years ago, and they'd be some nonSikhs (probably illegal immigrants?) who'd eat langar, but wouldn't matha tek. I remember one pardaan having a row about this with a sullah once. Some people see us as easy touches, or people who are easy to make fools of. We need to address that too.   

That's true.

To be gita specific, do we need to do gita parchar when we don't need to?

It's the scripture most revered by upper caste Hindus and lower caste people hv objections against this scripture.

[dallysingh101]

1 minute ago, shastarSingh said:

That's true.

To be gita specific, do we need to do gita parchar when we don't need to?

It's the scripture most revered by upper caste Hindus and lower caste people hv objections against this scripture.

Veera, we are in a really basic position regarding our own written culture. I know we have Gobind Gita, which some people purport to be a composition of dasmesh pita, or at least a contemporary darbar writing which is a commentary of Bhagawad Gita. We are in such a basic position right now, most of us aren't familiar with the contents and would struggle to read it. 

I'd be more impressed if a giani shed light on this, or someone translated it fully. 

 

  

[Premi5]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

Spiritually we don't need the parchar of kachi bani of gita from our stages.

Thinking a bit more politically, there are crores of dalits, kabirpanthis, sikligars, vanjaras and many other OBC tribes who are prospective candidates of Sikhism.

These so called lower caste people hv problem with gita.

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/141220/commentary-op-ed/article/gita-and-obcs

Even the great leader of dalits Dr. Ambedkar has written against gita.

https://roundtableindia.co.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4347:essays-on-the-bhagwat-gita-philosophic-defence-of-counter-revolution-krishna-and-his-gita&catid=119:feature&Itemid=132

By doing parchar of gita from our stages, we will only be alienating ourselves from these crores of people who r very prospective candidates to become Sikhs.

Some of our parcharaks just to show off their scholarly skills start quoting from gita or vedantic texts. They r harming Sikhs spiritually and politically.

Why are you so caught up on 'Gita'? I've never heard of parchaar of Gita and i've listened to a few kathavachaks

Are there many kathavachaks doing katha in Hindi or other languages in India ?

I think Sikhs need to sort out Punjabis first, as they are the majority of the root of the Sikh community. If that's done, then maybe think more about areas of India. 

You mention sikligars, - I thought many were Sikhs already? 

What do you think of white Sikhs like the Chardhikala jatha who do Kirtan at Sri Harmandir Sahib? More English-speaking kathavachaks will help spread Sikhi in Western countries. 

Also, to think that there will never be divides within a community is wishful. Other religions have their own divides within their communities 

42 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Another danger point is being used and having our resources diminished by outsiders. I used to go to this small back street Gurdwara in East London years ago, and they'd be some nonSikhs (probably illegal immigrants?) who'd eat langar, but wouldn't matha tek. I remember one pardaan having a row about this with a sullah once. Some people see us as easy touches, or people who are easy to make fools of. We need to address that too.   

 I heard a story about a Gurdwara in E London around 15 years ago where they got 'fed up' of outsiders that attended just for langar. Whether it was 'karma' (or not!) apparently shortly after, they had some sort of pest infestation in their langar soon after and they couldn't serve langar for a while after !

I should know this, but is it mandatory for those going for Langar to matha-tek ?  Security at Gurdwaras seems to be still somewhat lax. I think all attendees should be screened for weapons and intoxication use before being allowed entry. 

[shastarSingh]

9 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I know we have Gobind Gita, which some people purport to be a composition of dasmesh pita, or at least a contemporary darbar writing which is a commentary of Bhagawad Gita

It's not a commentary in my opinion.

It's a sutantar independent rachna.

Same way krishan avtar in Dasam Granth Sahib is not a translation or commentary of 10th skandh of bhaagwat puraan but an independent rachna.

[dallysingh101]

Just now, shastarSingh said:

It's not a commentary in my opinion.

It's a sutantar independent rachna.

Same way krishan avtar in Dasam Granth Sahib is not a translation or commentary of 10th skandh of bhaagwat puraan but an independent rachna.

I'd use the word 'adaptation' myself. I agree, very little in the Dasam Granth Sahib is a straight translation. 

Until proper vidwaans study these granths in depth and bring out the subtle things within, especially in relation to the original works, I think we'll be in a basic position as a panth. The traditional steeks with their surface literal translations don't always cut it in my opinion, but I do appreciate anyone who has created any of these, because they are helpful with language.  

[shastarSingh]

15 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

Why are you so caught up on 'Gita'? I've never heard of parchaar of Gita and i've listened to a few kathavachaks

Also listen to simranjit Singh tuhana on YouTube.

There r other kathavachaks too who quote gita.

Nirmalas rever gita almost like Hindus and many of our gianis and kathavachaks hv/had nirmala "vidiya gurus".

[MisterrSingh]

They also have a very strong case for not throwing in their lot with Sikhs, too.

Our elders back in the day treated Ravidassias like dirt, to put it mildly. You don't forget or forgive that kind of thing very quickly. So while we can crow about Sikhi's egalitarian values on paper, the people who practiced Sikhi chose not to enact those values in their day-to-day lives. The amount of times I've heard that whole "separate entrance in pind's Gurdwara" (or in some cases, barring them entry altogether) is so embarrassing to the point it makes me angry.

This idea that the only thing stopping these particular castes is a lack of parchaar, is naive. There are families from those backgrounds who converted to Sikhi around 5 to 7 generations ago who are STILL referred to (by people of our background) as belonging to their former caste.  Disgraceful.