Heated Debate: Should We Hand Back The Crown Jewels? | Good Morning Britain

[BhForce]

On 3/4/2023 at 5:37 AM, dallysingh101 said:

Sorry, it's not a personal attack but I'm just exasperated by it at this point. 

Totally not taken as personal. We're just discussing pathways for the Panth.

On 3/4/2023 at 5:37 AM, dallysingh101 said:

What planet are you on bro? We wasted decade upon decade going to Human Rights groups, UN, various governments, countless marches - haven't you learned that these things are useless yet?

There are two ways to gain what you want: having power yourself, or being useful to someone who has power. Since we don't have #1, the remaining option is #2.

It's basically like the "Iraqi National Congress" hanging out in Western countries until such time as a great power needs them.

I can't promise this is the path forward. But it's one approach.

I'd be interested in hearing your approach(es).

[BhForce]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:55 PM, californiasardar1 said:

Sikhs need to stop looking back at Ranjit Singh's empire and making it out to be something that it wasn't.

You make good points, but none of them invalidate the reasons I gave that it's not just "a bunch of rocks".

 

[BhForce]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:55 PM, californiasardar1 said:

This portrayal does not seem to be grounded in facts, but rather sentimental revisionism.

It might be, but you do admit that I'm not the only one who does so, right? Even Sikhs who currently reside outside the Lahore Kingdom's borders (i.e., west of Satluj) look back to Maharaja Ranjit Singh fondly. Few look fondly to the Patiala or other kingdoms.

On 3/2/2023 at 9:55 PM, californiasardar1 said:

It is puzzling why people portray Ranjit Singh's empire as having been so important to the Sikh cause.

Instead of being puzzled, I'd ask you to probe the reasons. Why indeed do Sikhs remember Maharaja Ranjit Singh and not any of a half dozen other Sikh rajas?

[Ranjeet01]

The Kohinoor is a bit like Golum's ring in Lord of the Rings. 

Getting it back to us going to create Gollum like behaviour,  "My Precious!"

Nothing good has ever come from that diamond. 

[BhForce]

Just now, Ranjeet01 said:

The Kohinoor is a bit like Golum's ring in Lord of the Rings. 

Getting it back to us going to create Gollum like behaviour,  "My Precious!"

Nothing good has ever come from that diamond. 

OK, once you put it this way, it's hard to argue, I have to admit.

[Ranjeet01]

11 minutes ago, BhForce said:

OK, once you put it this way, it's hard to argue, I have to admit.

It will just amplify the 5 chors.

[californiasardar1]

9 hours ago, BhForce said:

It might be, but you do admit that I'm not the only one who does so, right? Even Sikhs who currently reside outside the Lahore Kingdom's borders (i.e., west of Satluj) look back to Maharaja Ranjit Singh fondly. Few look fondly to the Patiala or other kingdoms.

Instead of being puzzled, I'd ask you to probe the reasons. Why indeed do Sikhs remember Maharaja Ranjit Singh and not any of a half dozen other Sikh rajas?

 

Why does it matter that you aren't the only one who engages in sentimental revisionism about Ranjit Singh's kingdom? Does the fact that, in addition to you, a large proportion (probably a majority) of our people are misguided and misinformed somehow make it less cringe-worthy?

Regarding why Sikhs remember Maharaja Ranjit Singh and not the other various Sikh rajas, there are two reasons:

1. Ranjit Singh had a much larger kingdom

but, moreover:

2. 95% of today's Sikhs (including Malwai) probably are unaware of the existence of the other rajas in any case

 

We are sadly one of the most clueless and ill-informed groups of people on the planet. I bet you more than 95% of Sikhs who have heard of Ranjit Singh also believe that his empire included all of modern Indian Punjab.

[californiasardar1]

9 hours ago, BhForce said:

You make good points, but none of them invalidate the reasons I gave that it's not just "a bunch of rocks".

 

 

Sikhs will not be able to move forward and progress until we stop:

1. Attaching importance to silly things

and

2. Living in the past (and even worse: living in a pretend fairy tale version of the past)

 

 

The Koh-i-noor diamond is not some sort of special symbol of Sikh sovereignty. It has just been a status symbol for various rulers over time. The Sikh obsession with it is corny and pathetic on multiple levels. It's like caring about random material possessions of some rich person just because that rich person comes from the same background as you. Also, Sikhs crying about the British taking it is silly considering that Ranjit Singh took it from someone. What is the appropriate amount of time to go back to determine the "rightful" owner of anything?

[californiasardar1]

On 3/4/2023 at 2:37 PM, dallysingh101 said:

What planet are you on bro? We wasted decade upon decade going to Human Rights groups, UN, various governments, countless marches - haven't you learned that these things are useless yet? Jews are white too, and we should all know (by now!) how deeply rooted white supremacist racism plays a central part in western european politics. 

You seriously think any org would push for sanctions against India? And that too, for our mostly pendu, minor economical status community.  I don't think so. 

 

When people post things like you have above, it makes me wonder just how politically clueless apnay are - even after all this time. Sorry, it's not a personal attack but I'm just exasperated by it at this point. 

You make a great point.

Nobody is going to mess with an economic giant consisting of over 1 billion people because some random, uneducated pendus who have no money, no organization and no power.

 

Sikhs are very clueless. Just browsing SikhSangat is extremely depressing. I think there was a thread a long time ago where people were speculating on the worldwide Sikh population, and everyone was just pulling random crazy numbers out of their @sses (like over 100 million).