Revising Matha Tek

[sher_panjabi]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

I hope it is common sense - if you can't physically put your head on the floor to matha tek - then you do your best to show utmost respect to Guru Ji in the best way possible to you.

This may be jus bowing you body slightly and not fully - but it depends on your body

THe only thing we should be aware of is: Don't do anything which inflicts physical pain and distress to the body.

So in the case of sitting on the floor for langar or matha teknaa... please use common sense!

Disable people don't have to get out of their wheelchairs and fall on the floor to do the matha teknaa, nor wud anyone make a cripple forced to sit on the floor cross legged.

however, these ppl are exceptions!

our guru = samrath

its not even worth discussing these type of issues - my view anyway

"common sense, is a rare sense"

food for thought :T:

[Gupat Singhni]

we cannot change Gursikhi or Gurmat to benefit ourselves

we need to change ourselves for the sake of Gursikhi and Gurmat

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

I second that!

[Gurbar Akaal]

wasnt the anand karaj that we know as it is today introduced in early 1900s too?

isnt that changin gursikhi that our gurus layed down for us?

[tarunjeet singh]

wasnt the anand karaj that we know as it is today introduced in early 1900s too?

isnt that changin gursikhi that our gurus layed down for us?

Gurbar akal please provide evidence that the anand karaj's that where held before 1800 where any different to what we have know. On a side note it's important to remember that Sikhi had become riddled with Hindu customs by the the late 1800's, thus was the need for a Surbat khalsa to iron out all the differences in the panth.

[sher_panjabi]

Just like to agree and stress on what tarunjeet_singh said.

After the collapse of Khalsa Raaj of Banda Singh Ji Bahadar, Sikhs soon became fugitives and were hunted down for money by the authorities.

During this time, Sikh's in large numbers moved to the Jungles and wildered lands to escape extermination of the community.

At this point - Mahants (who were Hindus) looked after the Gurdwaras and Sikh institutions for the Sikhs. This period marks when BIPRAN KI REET (Brahmanism rituals and beliefs) were incorperated and flooded into Gurdwaras and Sikh Institutions.

THe Singh Sabha Movement in the late 1800s to early/mid 1900s was a Sikh revivalist movement, when Sikhs realised that Guru Granth Sahib Ji's hukam is contrary to what is happening in the Sikh institutions.

This led to the removal of idols at Harmandar Sahib (Sri Amritsar) installed by Hindu Pandits, and the formation of Sikh Rehat Maryada which prohibits acts such as Aarti, Toof, Jyot and other things which were installed as religious requirements by the Mahants.

Hope that helps

[Gurbar Akaal]

were the gurus marraiges carried out by doin parkarma around fire or sri adi guru granth? if u dont agree, please provice evidence against this

[sher_panjabi]

The Janam Sakhis and Sau Sakhi written about Guru Nanak Ji put forward:

GUru Nanak Ji refused to get married according to the Brahman ritual of circulating a fire seven times. Instead Guru Nanak Ji had a unique marriage, whereby Guru Nanak Ji and his wife walked in a circle together (not around a fire) while reciting mool mantar.

So if Guru Nanak Sahib Ji is recorded to have refused the Brahman marriage ceremony then all the Gurus (when they were Sikhs of the GUru, or become the Guru) they must have followed GUru Nanak Sahib Ji's maryadaa.

[Confu Singh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Veer Sher Panjabi is right...

Guru Nanak Dev ji asked for pen and paper with which they wrote out 'Ik Oankaar... Gurprasaadhi' around which He and Mata ji did Parkarma.

At the time of Guru Amar Das ji, some Gursikhs had there Anand Kaarj's performed around Anand Sahib bani (can't remember the names).

And it was at the time of Guru Ram Das ji when the Parkarma was performed around Lava Paath.

BTW:

Jyot was required as part of the Maryada during the evening to allow Akhand Paath to continue. A hidden Jyot was kept in case the main one was extinguished. Some people who were not aware of the rationale for the Jyots started to call the hidden Jyot an 'Akhand Jyot' and treating it as jyots in Hindu mandirs were.

[Gurbar Akaal]

acha i never knew that, ill read into it

apologies :wub:

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

The parikarma around the Guru Granth Sahib Ji were instituted by the son of Baba Dyal of the origional Nirankari movement (not Sant Narakdharis) named Bhai Darbara Singh. The custom back then was to invite a Brahmin pandit to do the wedding per Hindu traditions aka. around the fire. Bhai Darbara Singh recognized this as a Bipran Ki Reet and started the tradition of doing the 4 Lawans around the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This ceremony has become standard practice and is incorporated into the Panthic Rehat Maryada.

As a side note, from my father's pind, before the Rehat Maryada was more or less universal in implemantation, the ceremony of marriage was that the to be married couple would sit in the presence of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, listen to the Lawan, and at the end of each lawan, matha tek as a sign of acceptance of the Guru's advice. So different traditions did exist in marriage until the Rehat Maryada was implemented.

As per Matha Tek, each Sikh will do according to their individual Pyaar. Guru Sahib is ever understanding and knows each Sikh's heart.