Big meat debate

[S1ngh]

Simple question

Person can live without eating meat, so why he needs to kill and eat?

[Gupt_Singh]

learner singh you are clearly not learning much.

i love it when people use the "taking the shabad out of context" excuse and then quote teh whole shabad and find it still has the same meaning :umm: :umm: :D

there is a very simple way to prove that meat is not allowed.

in guru ki sakhian for 10th guru there is a bhatt vehi account of vaisakhi. this is decided on by all scholars to be the most reliable source available. do you agree so far?

in this account the bhatt says that "KUTTHA" was banned for sikhs. do we agree?

what is kuttha? people generally believe it means halal. but to follow others is sheepish.

what is the most accurate and best preserved documentation we have from guru jis times? guru granth. do we agree?

how could we find out what kuttha means? by analysing the vocabularly used in the granth. agreed?

so quoting the shabads as bhai sahib mkhalsa did (and you ignored) lets have a look at what guru ji says:

In Gurbani the word "Kuthha" as well as "Kohna" have been used at a number of places in this sense:

Paap Karendar Sarpar Muthey.

Ajraeel Pharrey Phar KUTHHEY. (pg. 1019)

The sinner will certainly be ruined or destroyed.

The angel of dea

th will seize and kill them.

(Here the word "kuthhey" means simply killing, not killing by Halaal)

Bed Parhey Mukh Mitthee Baani

Jeeaan KUHAT Na Sangey Paraanee. (pg. 201)

He (Pandit) recites the Vedas very sweetly, but he does not hesitate to kill life.

Abhakhya Ka KUIHHA Bakra Khanaa

Choukay Upar Kisey Na Jaanaa. (pg. 472)

They eat the meat obtained while uttering the unspeakable word (referring to Qalima of the Muslims which the Hindus considered as unspeakable) and allow none to enter their kitchen square.

the quote itself in english is IRRELEVANT. in the FIRST passage, the verb KUTTHEY is used. this stems from the noun kuttha. agreed? KUTTHEY in this context means killed. it does NOT mean hallalify or kill by muslim rites. therefore we can see that KUTTHA means KILLED literally, or DEAD FLESH/KILLED BEING/CARCASS.

ALL scholars, including the khalsa consensus translation, agree that kutthey means to kill rather than to hallalify. so we agree if KUTTHEY means kill, then KUTTHA means killed carcass, yes? im glad we agree.

you can forget everything you quoted, because SGGS is very cryptic. to try and prove a point you have mostly quoted places where the guru has asked a question to teh reader or got him to think. by following your logic, the end of akal ustat would totally negate teh basics of sikhi because guruji asks us a huge number of open ended questions to focus our gyan (or lack of) on.

by looking at simple language and grammar, and not analysing the more complex and rhetorical shabads, it is blatantly obvious that gurbani is telling us what kuttha is. kuttha is more of a muslim/persian word i THINK. go and ask a muslim what it means, and he will ALWAYS say the same thing. any type of meat.

it is because selfish undisciplined people have made the notion of kuttha being halal widespread is why there is such a lapse of rehat in this area.

why would banda singh bahadur, who was given POLITICAL LEADERSHIP of the KHALSA by GURU GOB

IND SINGH give a clear HUKAMNAMA also to the khalsa, ordering them not to eat meat also?

meat isnt a little thing in sikhi, a case of its orite either way.....its a big thing!

[Gupt_Singh]

oh and dont forget that bhagat kabeer was a strict vegetarian. therefore its no suprise his bani and insight on the matter was mentioned in SGGS.

in some of his bani not in SGGS he says "the hindus do their jhatka and the muslims their halal, but compassion has left them both"

[S1ngh]

YoooOO all are moorakhs (stupid).. i didn't say it.. it's our guru jee who said it..

[Ryu Hayabusa]

i havent heard of anyone saying take a drug or die.. but im sure a sikh would rather die..

Die instead of tkaing a drug? Man that sounds real stupid. After so many incarnations you finally get to become a human being and you would just give it up instead of taking a drug. I don't understand this and I honestly don't think anyone would be stupid enough to do this.

Try not to look at everything as black and white, there is alot of grey area. It is in the grey area where tough choices are made for good or bad.

[Guest SikhForLife]

veerji its like this.. would u rather have ur hair cut by someone or would u rather die before they could do it?

i would chose death !!!

and so did Guru Gobind singh jee's SOn...........!!!

i will not betray sikhi in such a way

this thread has gone too far..... dont get involved in the pleasures of eating.. its that simple..

[Mkhalsa]

I have no comment on ur ridiculous articles and twisted way to present gurbani..

and if guru sahib said u cant eat meat then it isnt ur right.. im not taking anything from you.. you are so blood thirsty you cant even see the simple facts.. your haumai is so strong u are not even willing to listen...

[Guest learner singh]

I can't believe that all my posts are deleted just because there was NO arguement to face it but frustration, which Mkhalsa showed and whoever deleted my posts...lol

Believe on me it gives me more encouragement to shad off your biased propaganda...

Don't worry you all are soon going down when we will have the truth in your biased market and people will go by truth.

Gurbani Says.

'Falsehood will perish, O Nanak

And truth shall prevail, ultimately' "

Good bye "fateh" is not for you manmati wanna be sikhs....

[Gupt_Singh]

your posts were probably deleted becuz u just posted pages and pages of gurbani which were not relevant and did not show the line in a different light.

please read my arguments regarding kuttha then carry on......just keep it short n sharp!

[GurbarAkal]

yeh I asked the admin to delete those posts of yours. I couldn't take the miss use of gurbani or any posts by the person who missed used gurbani. you just succeed in confusing people with your long senseless posts making people think that you are a gyani with all this info on everything.

I think you should be banned from this message board. No One has benefitted from you anyway. you have only wasted people's time with your senseless believes. Your name doesn't suit you instead it should be "TEACHER SINGH". you are not here to learn or listen to anyone.

Gurbani Says.

'Falsehood will perish, O Nanak

And truth shall prevail, ultimately' "

I agree with that I m sure everyone else believes the same on this board.This pauree is for people like you.

pourree ||

Pauree:

sabh ko aakhai aapanaa jis naahee so chun kadteeai ||

All call You their own, Lord; one who does not own You, is picked up and thrown away.

keethaa aapo aapanaa aapae hee laekhaa sa(n)dteeai ||

Everyone receives the rewards of his own actions; his account is adjusted accordingly.

jaa rehanaa naahee aith jag thaa kaaeith gaarab ha(n)dteeai ||

Since one is not destined to remain in this world anyway, why should he ruin himself in pride?

ma(n)dhaa kisai n aakheeai parr akhar eaeho bujheeai ||

Do not call anyone bad; read these words, and

understand.

moorakhai naal n lujheeai ||19||

Don't argue with fools. ||19||

Good bye "fateh" is not for you manmati wanna be sikhs....

you don't deserver it either. Since I m not that great of sikh myself. I can just say "see you in hell."