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Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh The Sri Dasam Granth Sahib saroop at Aurangabad is not a new discovery. I came across it some years ago and Dr Kamalroop Singh also has written about the manuscript in his PHD. We discuss the manuscript in our forthcoming book: The Granth of Guru Gobind SIngh: Essays, lectures and Translations. Panjab Digital Library has digitized many important Sri Dasam Granth Saroops over the last few years none of these are available on their website I had to go to Chandigarh to look at the pictures in their offices Gurinder

DHAN DHAN GURU GOBIND SINGH SAHIB JEE. DHAN DHAN GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE. DHAN DHAN DASAM GRANTH SAHIB JEE. DHAN DHAN SARBLOH GRANTH SAHIB JEE. DHAN DHAN BHAI MANI SINGH JEE. DHAN DHAN BHAI SUKHA SINGH JEE. DHAN DHAN BHAI MEHTAB SINGH JEE. DHAN DHAN PUNJAB DIGITAL LIBRARY JEE. Further proof that Dasam Granth Sahib (as a large Granth) was in existance during Guru Gobind Singh Jee's life (or right after) and that Dasam Granth Sahib was around way before Bhai Sukha Singh Jee and Bhai Mehtab Singh Jee took care of Massa Rangarh. Also this is further proof that Dasam Granth is not created by British or RSS or Nirmalas or Mahants or whatever conspiracy theory people try and make up. There are MANY proofs of Dasam Granth before 1800 and even before 1750, so all of those conspiracy theories go out of the window. I find it very interesting that these saroops are found in Maharastar and Aandhra Pradesh......the same areas where the missionaries are going out of their way to do katha and seminars and speak against Hemkunt Sahib and Dasam Granth Sahib, etc. These historical granths were found in Pinds (villages). I have always been very against the missionaries' "Pind Sambhaalo (take care of your village)" initiative, (where they go into your village and do 'parchaar' for a certain period of time in order to 'save' Sikhi). These findings makes things look even more suspicious. Hmmm.... Let us support organizations like Punjab Digital Library, who are trying to preserve our history and traditions...rather than destroy it like the missionaries are attempting to do. This is also further proof that we need to respect and embrace other religions and communities, as these people have a lot of hidden treasures of the Sikhs. Not just in India, but in Pakistan, Middle East, possibly china, possibly russia, possibly eurpoean countries, etc as well. I urge anyone who has a piece of Sikh history (or anything related to it), to contact Punjab Digital Library so that it can be digitalized and shared with everyone. Let's stop keeping these types of treasures to ourselves, and let everyone enjoy the Amrit Ras and Darshan. One fine example is of this is a family in the UK: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69908-bhai-mani-singh-wrote-arth-pothis-16vol-uk/?hl=%2Bbhai+%2Bmani+%2Bsingh It is a historical FACT that Bhai Mani Singh Jee did Katha of Gurbani to Sangat and taught them correct meanings. So it is very exciting to hear that there is written copies of the katha/explanations as well. It is very sad however that they are not being revealed for digitalization. However, in the meantime, let us enjoy and celebrate these new discoveries! I know I went off on a tangent and only talked about Dasam Granth Sahib Jee. These findings are great for research on Guru Granth Sahib Jee as well. As many manuscripts and Granths were destroyed in the Sikh Reference Library fire, these are crucial findings for Sikh history. These findings will further give scholars resources to examine and compare to other historical Granths. Sikhi is not old, let's stop pretending like it is. 250, 300 and 350 year old Granths go back to Guru Gobind Singh Jee's lifetime or right after his lifetime (which is still during Baba Deep Singh Jee's lifetime, Bhai Mani Singh Jee's lifetime, Baba Banda Singh Bahadar's lifetime, etc). Amazing!

It's good discussion but complex one. I agree with veer johnny101. There is no way one can be sikh of Guru sahib and shariat level muslim. Gurmat does not acknowledge prophet muhammad as avtar or anything like that nor it agrees with aurenzeb type of shariat islam. If we read gurbani, gurbani re-defines how muslim should be, in fact the gurbani shabad itself posted in my previous post is originally meant for updesh to muslim if we read the whole shabad but on a broader context it off course applies to everyone including sikhs. It' quite possible not surprising at all, guru nanak dev ji gave amrit via charan amrit or via deb dristhi to lucky student- ruk ud din yet still let rukh ud din attach to marfat, hakikat layer of Islam, let him jaap naam of allah, khuda re-enforced importance of Zikr meditation of Islam. We need to stop at looking at sikhi from abrahamic point of view. Sikhi isn't some cheap jevoh witness movement- take amrit, forget about previous resounding names of god, we purify you, give you new one which will guarantee you mukhti...it sounds quite cheap jevoh witness type of purification/converation. Each individual avastha are different as such..yes many were given full fledge gursikhi- start from scratch based on their antish karan/karams but some based on avastha of individuals exceptions guru maharaj encourage them to pursue mystic layer in their respective dharam and were given kirpa/bhramgyan amrit by deb dristhi- Gurparsad. Satguru nanak dev nirankar were nirankar themselves in sargun roop live pooran avtar guru of this whole universe/multiverse they came to give people mukhti/give people amrit in various forms-charan amrit, deb dristhi amrit, khanda da amrit , they gave mukhti based on people's merit/actions, avastha, sharda and prem as opposed to based on merit of people's socio-religious rehni behni/people following shariat layer of dharam. Satbachan..there is no question about it..satguru nanak dev nirankar is supreme lord... Gurbani da vak sada sat hai. I think most sikhs inspired by puratan samparda's- taksal/nirmale etc are steady fast believe in gurbani vak above- Sabh te vadda Satgur Nanak jin kall raakhi meri while maintaining acknowledging previous yug avtars- Ram, Krishna based on gurbani. Gurmat does not acknowledge prophet muhammad whatsoever as avtar and does not considers buddha as hari avtar but rather nit avtar. So for sake of complexity of discussion we could mohammad or buddha out of discussion for now. In fact, sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale gurbani katha consistent with Gurmat writes in their pothi of japji sahib- Both puran hari avtar and Guru Avtar are avtars of Vahiguroo ji, puran hari avtars such as krishan, ram were avtars of vahiguroo in previous yugas according to the need of previous yugas. In kalyug, only satguru nanak dev nirankar in sargun eleven forms are guru avtar of vahiguroo ji and in kalyug, only universal sikhi providing universal message of niskham seva, meditating on name (shabad surat/gyan of real self) are fastest way to get kaival mukhti in this kalyug. We need to realize there is a diffference between genuine pride based on truth and gajini type of false pride/ego. Guru Maharaj has said, ਗਰਬ ਗੰਜਨ ਦੁਸਟ ਭੰਜਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦਾਇਕ ਕਾਮ || Thou art the Destroyer of ego, the vanquisher of tyrants and performer of works leading to salvation. For example- Genuine pride based on nothing but eternal truth- Sabh te vadda Satgur Nanak jin kall raakhi meri, Gurmat is fastest way to get to sackhand if understood, contemplated, if one takes full dive in depth of Gurbani. Gajini type of false pride/misguidance- Inadvertently or advertently turning sikhi into abhramic faith, into jevoh witness type of movement, seeing dualism among avtars of vahiguroo as opposed to seeing energy behind avtars. Gyani sher singh ji put it eloquently in his katha on sri dasam granth by giving example that- one must rise from wrapping their heads around electricity forms(different forms of avtars) such as - bulbs, tube lights, generators- power goes through bulbs, tube lights, generators based on how much is needed based on need but make no mistake it's same non dual power- Vahiguroo nirgun roop which is giving power to all these different forms based on need of time (yugas). It's all that same one non dual vahiguroo khel, he himself put traps of maya front of krishna and ram chandar ji- many of times based on vahiguroo grace - they pass and upheld dharma in their respective yuga were able to show followers of yuga right path to salvation but some of it they failed to uphold dharma again(as sri dasam granth sahib ji points out) miserably, under hakum of vahiguroo- vahiguroo himself had to set the record straight based on time so they were ascended back to nirankar as vahiguroo sargun hari avtar saroop of ram and krishnan folded itself back in its nirgun roop as their job in their respective yugas was done (they didn't go back to satan thats the key here they went back in nirankar appear/disappear in khands based on hakum they are not confined in khands but rather exist in our consciouness/perception/avastha) ..fast fwd to kalyug vahiguroo ji himself had to descend with full powers as satguru nanak dev nirankar in sargun saroop to resume and upheld dharma as kalyug is toughest yet easiest (if one follows universal sikhi based on niskham seva and simran). Anyway, to be honest where theological discussion of avtarvad(different types of avtars above) ends thats where real spiritual sikhi- bhramgyan starts. In other words, deep time consuming discussion of avtars are thing of hinduism (vaishav matt).. Sikhi does not overly emphasize on avtarvad. Sikhi is non dual/advait gyan marg, gurbani gives updesh at the end to human being- each one of us are avtars, in layman terms - yes there are super heros in indic relgious faiths but whats the stopping you an human to be just like them, in fact vahiguroo jot is in everyone, we are all avtars of vahiguroo ji- we all have potential to know our real self- atma-paratma vahiguroo but with that being said, existence of avtarvaad cannot be outright rejected as it helps a beginner to invoke devotion, prem, sharda. In hinduism how bhagti -vaishanav mat/order and gyan order- advaita/adi sankarcharaya are staunchly against each other but its mind blowing its only in sikhi - how gursikhi bhagti and gyan layer- atma-paratma-bhramgyan are magnificently blended with each other- there is no difference between nirgun and sargun- Ikongkar non dual atma-paratma...its amazing...!!! Dhan teri sikhi maharaj, dhan teri sikhi..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brother you said some things like: Sikhi is not a religion, but according to webster's dictionary of what a religion is: Definition of RELIGION 1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith Now how is using the term religion for Sikh Dharm wrong according to the definition of "religion" Second claim you made was that Guru Nanak Dev Jee gave Amrit to Muslims yet they remained Muslims. By that you are indirectly saying that they were still followers of Prophet Muhammad while also being Sikhs. When Rukn Ud Din took Amrit and became a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev Jee he was tortured and killed by the Muslim Arabs. A Sikh is a sacha Aashiq of his Guru, you cannot do Aashiqee with two and claim to be a true Aashiq of any one of them, it's either one or the other. If you put your foot in two separate boats you will slip and sink. A path of Sikhi is full of trust and Shardha not critical. It is only through the path and blessings of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee that you can have darshan of Vahiguru because the Darshan is obtained through Gurprasaad. Sadly most Sikhs today like to lower the status of Sri SatGuru Jee almost like he is on the same level of Raam, Krishna, Buddha or Prophet Muhammad. Sabh te vadda Satgur Nanak jin kall raakhi meri. The canonical scriptures of the Sikhs are: -Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee -Bani of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee -writings of Bhai Gurdas Jee(varaan and Kabit) -writings of Bhai Nand Lal Jee Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee being our Satguru. And I am not criticizing you in a negative way Bhaaji, sorry to see you see it that way. This is more of constructive criticism. By discussing some issues like this, I can learn new things from you and maybe you might see my point of view and learn something from me. This is good discussion.

"It takes you out of deep meditation when they spray that strong stuff." Well, next time before you go there to sit in deep meditation what I would do is ask the Sevadars there as to why keep the sprays there. Since they spend most of their lives there i'm sure they know what they are doing. It's easy for us to sit here back at home holding opinions about something. Also with no offence intended, but is this meditation really deep if it is disturbed by a smell. Again, I know nothing about "deep" meditation so please don't think i'm trying to say you're not a deep meditator or anything of the sort.

we should ALL be chardikala like that !! Treat everyone around you as being on a higer status than yourself. Always judge your own self as the lowest of the low.

It is very good to see somebody doing an academic study on our community. Good survey too! Has got me thinking about my life actually! Everybody please take the time out to do it -literally took me five mins!!

Singh jeo, This beer was looted during evacuation of Anandpur sahib. Ultimately it was bought by a sikh family in Bombay.From there it is said to be brought to Chandigarh but the owner is not known as it is held in secret.

In the journey of my life,,,, I have never seen a person in my life like him... He is incredible.. He is my father or we can say our father... Keep on following him... if u want to live a life full of pride :D Sometimes i think about him..... n the first thing strike my mind... is.... "MY" n when u start considering some1 mine... there is nothing in this world which can take u away from ur Guru :D The life that he lived... n what he did for us.... no body can even understand his pain... for the sake of society n for ur pleasure u r forgetting him..... :nono: :nono: He is a sweetest heart a human can have.... :respect: :respect: :respect: :l: :l: :l: :l: :l: :l: :l: :l:

Pictures cannot describe our Guru's. Their personalities are beyond brush and pen. :respect:

hunn keeti na gall...hunn na magaj maari, nai te sanu sachee lagna vi tenu mirch kaahto lagdi aa :D

Bhai Sahib who holds this beerd? Was it taken during the 1984 Ghallughara by the indian govnt?

das didnt read post fully , if it is bhog then akhand path is needed

True, but it distracts people like me trying to get into that state. I was listening to kirtan at Harmandir Sahib and they sprayed really strong cologne which irritates people and triggers a lot of people's allergies. If smell doesn't affect deep meditation then why do they spray it in the first place? Do you see the flaw in logic there? Something like dhoof or something mild would be best in my opinion.

13 mirch eh fokiya gallan nu shad eh gall jaan la pyar phull vangu ah..phull haiga mehak haigi..phull khatam hogeya, par mehak fir vi haigi...par je kanda (thorn) haiga fir kise nu koi laabh nahi, ,mareya hoya jaisa...aur ena phulla di zindgi boht thordi hundi ah; dar jo hai kandeya da.. aur kandeya di zindagi bahut lambhi hundi hai, darr jo bna k rakhya sareya phullan te.. ik gall ta hai kanda rakhwali de kamch ta ah janda..par jithe kande ne kise nu rok leya manzil tak pochan li ous bande nu rass baaray kuch ni pata hovay ga....Sakat har ras sadh na janeya tin antar haume kanda he..dont fall for the physcial objects that bring love..it was the true love your were looking for not the objects, instead the true one...

You've not suffered much have you bro? :biggrin2: Nah I'm just kidding. It's easy to talk about duality when passing judgement on other people's lives and situations, and you are right that we should aspire to see happiness and pain as one. But when a person is mired in suffering to such an extent that to live each moment of life without any hope of knowing when there'll be a respite to this suffering is an absolutely harrowing existence. But I'm not a Gurmukh therefore I'm not at the level where I can shrug off the cruely of life just yet.

Sir, with all due respect to you and your valued opinions, I beg to differ and say that a Gursikh walks not on his/her path but the path shown to us by Guru Sahib. As for bullying on this forum, I doubt if Johnny or FancyBanana are the kind of members who bully folks on here, but if you feel anyone is, please use the report feature.

I wasn't talking about you or your post bro. I was merely saying what I thought. I did not pass judgement on you or anyone else, neither am I bullying anyone. Am I not allowed to express my own opinion?

Whats the issue veerji , kind of confused. If Sangat decided to simran for 48 hours, what is the issue :s? Unless they are saying we shouldn have akhand paaths or something along those lines. Please explain. Waheguru

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HI61y0w2Fw&feature=share

All theories against Dasam granth sahib is a vicious propaganda. Two beers of Dasam Granth were compiled in Guru sahibs time. The year was 1698 and beers are called Anandpuri beer and Beer patna. So these thugs who say Dasam Granth sahib was introduced by British are touts of anti sikh agencies. A separate manuscript of chartropakhayan dating to 1721 is lying in university library of PUnajb university.

It's targetting grown men who still wear patkas. I can see the logic in the website creator's argument, but I wouldn't create a blog and start posting people's pics on the net. Absolute nonsense.

Waheguru This is great news and the 'Punjab Digital Library' needs to be given thanks for acting so fast on getting it digitized. Cant wait till its available to read on their website. Waheguru

I too had my doubts and questions before I really started to learn about Sant Ji. But I can safely say from my own experience - if you take heed of this particular pappi's words - Sant Jarnail Singh should not be doubted. As for strategic decisions regarding the resistance vs the Indian army it's hard to say unless we walked that particular path and had to make life and death decisions. It breaks my heart to learn how they've been misrepresented and villified over the years. Had they belonged to another faith or race, they would've been considered a Mandela / Guevara-type figure, i.e. an inspirational leader who took up arms against a tyrannical government who was oppressing a minority within it's own borders. Of course, with their intense spirituality and gian they were much more than just a fighter. Instead they've been turned into a Bin Laden-type bad guy by the Indian propaganda machine, and worse of all our own people have swallowed it for decades. What an absolute injustice.