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Hi to everyone, I believe each member is valuable here, as each one tries his/her best. It is amazing to see how most friendly ask and answer, and behave, as this forum is about to be with good spirits: Sikh Sangat. The only thing which I dislike to see, or it pains, is when I see that because of disagreement, some abuse mercilessly each other. We have to understand that, not all have that same mental capacity of assimilating things, but that does not mean, we should hate them or bully them, we could respectfully talk with them, and leave it if the disagreement persists. So what, that is not the end of the world. There is still something better to look at, Bani and Wahiguru. To those who provoke, or want to drag us to their grounds of ego and agyanta, we should sincerely forgive them, and pray for them, as they are the most who need it. Anyhow, if ever I have conscioussly or uncosciouslly, been rude with anyone, I ask for forgivenes with both my hands folded. Loves and blessings for all. Sat Sree Akal.

I'm not sure what the Sikhs of the past sowed that they had to go through the Chota and Vadda Ghallughara?

I don't look funny, smelly, or like an under-nourished manlet. That's probably a currycel Indian thing for urban Delhi and Mumbai dwellers. I'm Punjabi. My gene game from a wider ethnic and familial genetic perspective is strong. Make a Sikh joke at my expense, and I'll plant one on your nasaa. ?

You should be hoping for development of the whole country not wars. Panjab will lose a lot if China / Pak invade, remember everything is fair in war , so chinese soldiers would not think twice about leveling Golden Temple into dust and then posing for photos. Unless you're hoping everything around Panjab is destroyed and somehow Panjab isn't touched. In 2050, India will have a bigger economy than USA, so in the mean time, since you live in Panjab, convince the SGPC to create missionaries to convert North India, so Sikhs can take over from the inside out.

You make a very good point. There are people asking for money to make Khalistan happen by 2020. Meanwhile, the drugs, the alcohol consumption, the illiteracy, the poverty, the aborted girls, the cancer, the poverty and 1984 victims (who need to be our immediate top financial priority) are all being ignored because of these imaginary paper exercises and the empty slogans every year that do nothing to help those suffering. Very well said 5AkaalSingh Ji. The type of people who make these false allegations against Master Tara Singh Ji are probably not even aware that in 1947 Sikhs were a minority in every single district of Punjab. These people seem to imagine that 100% of Punjabi's are 100% Sikh today in 2018. And when you tell them that only 14% of Punjabi's were even Sikh in 1947 it helps them slightly grasp that nowhere in the last 200years has a 14% demographic minority been granted independence (to rule over a majority of others) by an Empire that perpetrated the British Empire's Genocide of Sikhs against us as seen in the aftermath of 1849, Jallianwala Bagh and the countless shaheeds of the Gurdwara Reform Movement. Just to add to your point the Muslims had a population just shy of 100 million back in 1947. I genuinely feel that a lot of people are ignorant of this reality that 66% of Punjabi's today are Muslims, 22% are Hindu's across the states and whilst only 11% of historically Punjabi populations are Sikhs. Meanwhile the Sikh population was in fact just over 5 million in 1947. And Sikhs were even a minority in Majha, Doaba and Malwa let alone all the other districts. Albeit that our numbers weren't too far behind the Muslims in these three districts and therefore allowed our people to thus avoid total extermination in the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs. Muslims were the majority in the cities of Amritsar, Jalandhar, Ludhiana and Muslims had voted for all of Punjab to be in Pakistan so Jinnah's plan was to annex present day east Punjab into Pakistan. So the people claiming that the British offered the 14% Sikh minority an independent fully functional independent state in which Muslims were the majority are kidding themselves and insulting a great Sikh who dedicated his life to the Panth for no financial gain. The ignorance regarding current demographic projections of a Sikh minority in Punjab is shocking. Brother let me make clear, I support wholeheartedly the actions of our great Shaheeds - Bhai Beant Singh, Bhai Satwant Singh and Bhai Kehar Singh. My dream is to see Delhi airport rightfully named in honour of these great heroes one day (however long into the future that might be) as opposed to being named after an evil terrorist like Indira Gandhi by Congress thugs to commemorate her very rightful and deserved dispatch. Sodha of real dushts who have the blood of innocent Sikhs on their hands is something every Sikh should support. Justice is one of the fundamental corner stones of what Sikhi is all about. Shaheed Bhai Sukha Singh and Shaheed Bhai Mehtab Singh are heroes to the entire Panth. I don't think a single person can have any opposition to their actions. If Baba Baghel Singh could could conquer Delhi in the past then there is no reason that parchar and seva cannot return Khalsa Raj to Delhi again one day if we solve the immediate problems we face in front of us in the short term (like the fact that Sikhs may become a minority in Punjab by the 2021 census). Now coming on to your point about justice. We haven't gotten justice in the last 34years. Year after year things have gotten worse and worse and worse since 1984. The splitting of single united Gurdwara's into multiple golaks, Sikhs rolling around on drugs, Sarkari Sikhs killing sincere GurSikhs, Sikhs letting poor children rot without an education and letting their parents convert or die if they don't have money for cancer treatment, so-called Sikhs perpetrating female infanticide. These are injustices we have to correct right here right now. You have been open and have pledged to support the education of a poor Sikh child to do your part to be part of the solution. So I hope everyone reading the thread can join it and publicly commit to doing the same. I would like to nominate MisterrSingh or Harsharan000 as honest Sikhs who can be trusted to oversee the Sangat's donations to the poor Sikh children who we as ordinary posters will commit to supporting. http://www.shdf.org/ https://educatepunjab.net/

Bro it's because most Sikh women realise that the prostitute wants the oxygen of publicity so the best thing we can do is fight it quietly and legally and by dropping subscriptions to Zee (assuming it's a paid for channel). That's exactly what the prostitute is banking on. Mass protests by Sikhs so that can use that to garner attention and generate more viewers and social media attraction and TV and press coverage. Certainly no poster with the name Kaur should be tolerated but we don't need to advertise this by burning posters publicly. Quietly does it. Well said Ranjeet! That's what the prostitute wants - so why generate more money for her? Well said sister. Boycotting Zee subscriptions can achieve results. Generating the prostitute free publicity via mass protests (free publicity) or a social media campaign (that she is praying for) will not help us

200 years from now your group will be saying Sant Jarnail Singh ji was doing havan. When someone presents a video where sant ji says not to do havan. You will say the video is altered. So there is no end to the nindiya you will spread. The problem is, today nihangs are not willing to sacrifice themselves for the Khalsa Panth and they did not let go of their Hindu practices. There are shabads speaking against havan in Gurbani but posting it to a guy who ran away from a different discussion will not help here. Hes got an agenda, he throw out learning long time ago. Its like a white girl coming to Sikhi but still hugs her guy friends and views dating as not an issue. The nihangs try to reinforce their manmat beliefs today and in the past by using authority figures (baba deep Singh ji) and granths. Everything written in the granths they use is not true. Yet they will label you as manmukh because you dont believe everything a so called Granth says. They dont follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, yet I am the manmukh. There can't be anything more ridiculous than this but all the little children buy it because they want to belong to a group. These children don't have the Gurus knowledge and courage to question their baba. No Gursikhs ever did havan. Let me correct this, the havan of a Sikh is to sacrifice their life to Gurbani and then give it to the khalsa Panth. Since nangs have abandoned both, they are sacrificing rice to a fire.

That is where Jinnah deserves credit. Despite being the architect of the Rawalpindi Sikh massacres along with his Muslim Jat (Liaquat Ali) and Muslim Brahmin friends (Iqbal) etc he did not get his hands dirty with pronouncements to that effect. The Genocide was planned in Muslim League secret meetings and the level of Genocide inflicted upon kaffirs clearly exposes what Pakistan's intent was. The ISI doesn't need to say what it is doing in order for bombs to explode and kill innocents.

One pangtai explains it all - Apay beej apay-he khaw, Nanak hukami aavo jao. What we sow is what we reap. Simples. When we do bad karam we do not care, we go ahead and do them. When those karam come round and we have to work through them, then we cry and howl - I am such a good person, I do my paath, I do sewa, I never done anything wrong, why is this happening to me. We forget those bad karam we did. Maybe we did them in a previous life but those karam made in ego and karodh will come back to haunt us. Guru Ji got nothing to do with it, we are the makers of our own misery.

Please don't mind me saying but your post clearly showing that you don't trust Waheguru and finding a fault in our waheguru ji. You need to read more bani.

We are letting dumb Hindus make joke of us. It doesn't happen in my life, because Hindus know they don't stand a chance.

In a country where Hindi has engulfed regional languages, Panjabi is the only one surviving and thriving in North India. Gotta give it up to my dravidan bros for not only killing Rajeev " Big Tree " Gande but also for rejecting Hindi as a whole. People from the South just HATE hindi and it's imposition. Yes , there is hindi in Panjab but, that's the fault of Panjabis for not working on their land rather bringing poor hindi migrants from Bihar and UP. You can't control non Punjabi speakers who invade Panjab and dilute real Panjabis , you have to blame Panjabis for having the worst Politicians in the world. What I'm saying is , it's a miracle Panjabi is not just surviving but thriving in this era. Be grateful

Have you been to Punjab recently? There are alot of schools there that teach in Hindi in Punjab.. Its quite odd because I know some families whos children go to those school in Punjab, and their children can't even count in Punjabi. My cousin's family migrated from Punjab to here in the west, and her kid can't read Punjabi but they can read Hindi.. It surprises me. A lot of the shops use Hindi signs rather than Gurmukhi ones. Im pretty sure Delhi was part of the Punjab region as well, and look what its turned into linguistically.

False ! Panjabis are the best looking ethnic group in India. Panjabis don't look like the stereotypical " Apu " from the simpsons like most Indians do. Panjabis don't go to other states to work as laborer [ they go cross country to Canada ] JK , other Indians from slum filled H*LL holes go to Panjab to work as laborers. Panjabis are the tallest and strongest ethnic group in India [ look it up] , it's also not a Surprise, Panjabi language is now famous because Sikhs carried it . You might not like the Panjabi media with the gangster / bad boys songs but because of these guys Panjabi is not only " surviving " , it's thriving. Gone are the days of Daler Mehdi , the clown who made Sikhs look like a bad meme , now Panjabi media is finally competing with Bollywood and getting 40-50 millions views each video. Look at other states where Hindi replaced the original language , Bihar [ most people don't even speak bhojpuri ] , Rajastan , Gujrat , Maharashtra , Orrisa , Jharkhaland , etc etc . Hindi has killed native languages in most States, but not Panjabi. You have to give it up to Panjabi media even if you dislike them , they are carrying Panjabi. Also forgot to mention , the only other language which is featured most in Bollywood beside hindi is Panjabi , most movies take place in a Panjabi setting and most dialog involve Panjabi phrases mixed with hindi. As far as jokes go Hindus are made fun of for worshipping everything , Arabs are called Sand N*****s , Indians generally are made fun of for not having toilets and pooping in streets [ thanks to poor central indians like UP / Bihar etc ] , Afgans are called boy lovers [ cause they dress boys as girls and do horrible things to them , and for being general savages in a dead country ] Chinese are called Gooks / slant eyed / dog eaters / people who eat everything , etc etc . Point is , no point in getting butthurt over santa banta jokes , those aren't even that bad compared to the ones I listed.

When we look back at our history the Sikh community only were able to achieve great victories those who tried to exterminate us by being unified and feeding into a pot that helped the community become self sufficient and then the goal of creating a commonwealth of Sikh populated area's of influence. What we have nowadays is Sikhs busy trying to further their own selfish interests, trying to accumulate their own financial needs instead and putting each other down of looking at the bigger picture of community progressing to a strong position so that population grows instead of it declining and suffering as see it with Sikhs in islamic dominated hell holes of afghanistan, pakistan and kashmir and now even punjab our population is not the healthy majority it used to be. I see some Sikhs with huge houses, latest flashy cars some even helping build big beautifully decorated gurdwara's and it reminds me of Sikhs of the past. They were rich, they were royals, business or land owners they spent huge monies one expensive personal goods and also build gurdwara's all over the place. Then the british east india company army came along and the Sikh empire was no more and then 1947 happened and those huge numerous beautiful gurdwara's were destroyed by musilms or converted into masjids or pakistani govt buildings. The Sikhs should have spent their resources on creating a huge population by either birth rate or converting the muslims and other masses to Sikhi instead of building gurdwara's because its the people that matter not the buildings they can be destroyed or converted by enemies.

Why do sikhs living in their own state of Punjab speak Hindi instead of punjabi?

Who are you describing as indigenous? Dravidians? I hope you realize that the Iranian Neolithic Farmers were Dravidians. They were also "invaders". Or are you talking about the Australoid tribals, who "invaded" from Africa. Which population is indigenous? The Aryans were steppe nomads. Haplogroups from burial sites prove this. The Mongols who are Turkic invaded the Eurasian steppe after descending from the Altai mountains and therefore displacing/mixing in with the the original "Aryan" population - the Uyghurs in China are an example of an Aryan/Mongol mix. The Aryans did not travel through Iran to get to India. The Aryans originated in the the Pontic-Caspian steppe and they descended down from there and reached Central Asia (the Hindu Kush), and they then split off into two distinct populations (the Indo-Aryans and the Iranics). Here is a map outlining all populations entering South Asia (the Yamnaya pastoralists are the Aryans, the Iranian agriculturists are Dravidians and the Indian hunter-gatherers are Australoid tribals):

There's also a definite sense of... I'm not sure if "racism" is too strong a word, but there's a palpable sense of these native hosts considering themselves naturally superior to these brown immigrants, such as Indians, by virtue of existence. The locals also find the idea of immigrants seeking citizenship to be mind boggling, and they actually say to those guys quite openly, "But you'll never be Spanish / Italian." lol. It's not even said in a cruel way, but almost in exasperation or disbelief, like someone trying to fathom the inner workings of an alien species. Fascinating stuff.

Nice. Have fun propagating Arab culture for Arabs while being ridiculed by them. South Asian Islam is basically Persian Islam. From the Sufi shrines to the prayer practices, it's all been taken from Persia.

Not really. We criticize Hindus and Muslims for their rituals. Yes, we are casteless by scripture, but of course there are issues in practice. With more education that will improve. Rituals ordained in scripture cannot though. Oh, marriages like those have happened. Multiple times. The same can't be said for Muslims. Dude, you're the one initiating this conversation, you are the one that started throwing stones, but I'm not surprised. ? Well, you learn something new everyday.

Yes, here: https://books.google.ca/books?id=Q-F07ALiguEC&pg=PA268&lpg=PA268&dq=separate+mosque+for+dalits&source=bl&ots=V0F1aQZXaA&sig=FIYfVj0W3BAlgoLEO8IixLo0lTo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYn5jd7qvcAhVY1IMKHfaqCJcQ6AEIiwEwDg#v=onepage&q=separate mosque for dalits&f=false You guys are even worse that you discriminate amongst the dead: http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/mar/06bihar.htm

Speaking to Sikh guys who worked a few years in places like Italy before coming over to the UK, they say the same thing: whilst they weren't abused or mistreated, there was definitely a sense of low-key hostility or resentment towards them, on the part of the native host community, for almost having the temerity to come to those aforementioned European countries for which non-white immigration is a relatively recent phenomenon. It's certainly an eye-opener.

He's exactly the person I've had in mind for a few years now when analysing certain aspects of this discussion. Gurdas Maan started out as the Punjabi-Sikh Bob Dylan; his folk influenced lyrics (admittedly not entirely his own compositions) that broached frankly amazingly deep sentiments about life in general and our particular Punjabi mindset, eventually gave way to the kind of frothy nonsense that Malkit Singh has been churning out since day 1. The phrase, "artistic integrity" is one that's conspicuous by its absence in the lexicon of nearly all Punjabi artists and performers.

There's actually an interesting story about this. The Rig Veda, which epitomizes and praises Indra as supreme was written in Sapta Sindhu (Greater Punjab). However, after there was internal conflict among the Indo-Aryans (culminating in the Battle of the Ten Kings), the Bharatas, the victor tribe, established Vedic hegemony on all, and as they moved into the Gangetic plains, they came up with new practices to ensure segregation, such as caste. These new practices were rejected by the remaining Indo-Aryans living in Sapta Sindhu who revered Indra. And so in order to spite them, all further texts written in the Gangetic plains, such as the Ramayana, and Mahabharata, not only insult those remaining Indo-Aryans by calling them "mleccha", but also ridicule and bring down the status of Indra, their supreme God, and are instead replaced by a new Hindu trinity - Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu. So there is some history behind why Indra is portrayed as morally corrupt in later on texts of Hinduism.

harsharan000

Can mod's please close the thread and not make it visible to anyone. Gurmat is our favorite and inspires everyone here, so stick to it. Everything else is dust and will go back into dust. There is no higher pyare than pyare for Rehat. We need to write more post expressing deep love for Satguru, Gurmukhs, Gursikhs, Shaheeds and no one else. Then spread them like wild fire so others can benefit from them. This thread is just a battle of the egotistical.........Admin benti please close it.