BhForce

This is so not true! The fact is there are many, many lines from Guru Granth Sahib Ji which on first glance are promoting the Hindu or Brahmin philosophy. You need to go deeper into meanings and set up a interpretational framework to be able to derive meanings of Gurbani. I don't have the time to give all such quotes from Gurbani, but anyone who has read Bani is familiar with them. Let's not go to afar, just look in Japji Sahib. Is Guru Nanak Dev ji calling Isar, Gorakh, Brahma, and Parbati Mai Gurus that we are to be Sikhs of? Is Guru Ji saying Ram Chander of Ayodya dwells within the hearts of those in the upper spiritual realms (khands)? When Guru Nanak Dev ji says that Krishan did such and such of a deed in the forest Bindraban, is Guru ji encouraging such actions? Your answer will likely be "No, you're using the wrong meanings of Bani. If you use the right meanings, what you see as Brahminical will look like Gurmat." Exactly. But: use the same approach for Dasam Granth. Here is a link in which Vijaydeep Singh details all sorts of quotes from Gurbani regarding Hindu mythology. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/25492-answering-doubts-dalbeer-singh-ji-regarding.html If you take the view that simply using Hindu myths to make a point is bad, then you'll have to reject Guru Granth Sahib ji at some point. The logic naturally leads to such a conclusion.

Thanks for the link. Shame on nindaks (slanderers) like McLeod who doubted that Guru Nanak Dev Ji visited Baghdad. Shame on the Americans as well who partially destroyed this shrine to the great master as well as destroying element's of humanity's past. Note: Baghdad is in Iraq, not Persia. Iranians (Persians) speak Persian (Farsi). Iraqis are Arabs who speak Arabic.

Back to the point of the thread: Did anyone actually bother viewing the video? No one sexually harasses the reporter. The crowd is just mad about something and are debating with the reporter. That's it! Not to mention the fact that saying "Hindu mob" is just stupid.

LOL on #2. Anyway, as a general matter, it's usually observed that with increasing urbanisation, men grow weaker, having to do much less physical work for their livelihood. The average officeworker man does no excercise at all. His temperament has also become weaker. He doesn't have confidence and junoon, as pointed out by Mehtab Singh. The same for women. With labour-saving devices, the average woman who used to: -help in harvesting and threshing -grind flour -grind food for beasts -churn butter -wash clothes -make pickles It's hard to imagine a woman who grinds flour by hand not being able to fend off an attacker. (She doesn't have to overpower him, merely not allow him to overpower her.) I don't know if the same can be said for today's woman without years of self-defense lessons and a fad diet.

As a general note, it is said by some that Mahraja Ranjit Singh purposely sent Hari Singh Nalwa to be killed by "friendly fire" in his last battle. This is because Hari Singh Nalwa reminded the Maharaja that his kingdom was not his personal fief, but rather the property of the entire Khalsa community, who had all sacrificed in the battles of the 1700s to come to a point where a Raj could be established. Therefore, he should hand over the reins of his reign to a council of Five Singhs. The Maharaja accepted the principal of Khalsa supremacy to a point (on a de jure basis, one could say) in that he accepted the sovereignty of Akal Takhat and Akali Phoola Singh and also styled his government and himself as Sarkar-i-Khalsa (Government of the Khalsa). But when someone dared to say that the de jure arrangement should be made de facto, it is said he had him (Nalwa) killed.

Since the basics of the story are quite clearly from an old Arabic story, it's also clear that it doesn't apply to Guru Gobind Singh Ji. As for the reason for the story, I think one possible lesson that can be learned is don't set yourself up as a spiritual guru. If you do, it's inevitable that some or another follower of yours will develop sexual feelings for you. Only the true Guru has the ability to resist such temptations, as, for example, Guru Nanak Dev Ji did in Singladeep, Lanka. Guru Hargobind Ji was asked by a guest (I can't remember if it was Mohsin Fani, a contemporary of some of our Gurus, or Mughal Emperor), "Your female followers are so beautiful, how do you resist?" It was a silly question to ask the true Guru, but he asked it from his mundane viewpoint. Anyway, Guru Sahib said something along the lines of: suppose you are going to die tomorrow, will you think of pretty women? Keep death in mind all the time On the other hand, it is commonly seen that religious and other leaders who develop large followings fall into the trap of Kaam. Rajneesh (aka Osho) was famous for this, and his ashram is basically a big STD minefield. There are a number of examples among Sikhs as well. Lesson: Don't become a guru, just remain a man and a sikh.

It seems amazing that some people's goal in life, instead of being to do as much bhagti and seva as possible, is just to downgrade Dasam Bani. You can never quite pin down an anti-Dasam supporter. Sometimes, it's Chriteropakhian is bad, sometimes it's Hakayts, sometimes Akal Ustat is incomplete, Bachittar Natak doesn't make sense, and sometimes it's the whole Dasam Granth needs to be thrown out. I have to say, though, that bad or incomplete translations of Dasam Bani have also contributed to the confusion. A random missionary picks up a Dasam Teeka. It doesn't make total sense, so that person's mind is ready to be attacked by a Dasam opposer. The interesting thing about Gurcharan Singh Jeanwala is he doesn't even really believe in Parmatma. How could he, since he doesn't believe in Atma. He stated clearly in the debate with B. Hari Singh Randhawa that he doesn't believe there's anything after death! What's he even doing bothering with the fine points of a religion (any religion), if he doesn't even believe there is anything beyond the material (i.e., spirit).

Granted, beard tying isn't really promoted by the rehit. Gurus didn't do it, Singhs didn't do it. The only reason to do it (outside of specified professions) was to please the British; now we just do it to please others who got used to pleasing those who used to please the British. However, leaving that aside, there are some occupations where keeping your beard tied (in some fashion) would be best for safety. These might include machine/saw/lathe operator, surgeon, and food worker. I haven't seen any posts that really explain how to tie a dhari if you had to one day. Do we need some dhari tying videos lol (like the dastar tying videos)? One alternative might be to tie a patka (piece of fabric) around your dhari extending to be tied above your turban, like the Nihang Singhs do, only neater. Some men, esp. ex-Army, seem to wear those things all day (but they tie it under their turban).

You have to consider the vessel of a particular Guru sahib. Gurus from 1-10 were in human body form. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is pothi-avtar. (Pustak parmesar ka than.) Applying any kind of liquids or anything else whatsoever is corrosive to the vessel and for that reason is total beadbi. Also, Guru sahib doesn't need our tilaks. Finally, jana-khana (normal joe) doesn't have the authority to apply a tilak to Guru Sahib. Tilak (annointment) was applied to Guru Sahib during the Guruship ceremony by the chief reader, Baba Buddha ji. None of us is at that level. High level person applies annointment to a low level person, not vice versa! In any case, Guru sahib doesn't need annointment because Guru sahib is already holds the Guruship after Guru Gobind Singh ji performed the Guruship ceremony in Nanded. Talk about stupid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anointing

I agree with SikhRoots, we need to all support each other. Monas, Kesadharis, amritdhari. Although it's true you probably won't get anything to help achieve your life's spiritual goals from a GD Mann concert, it's still a little different from the one case I rember where a 3ho sikh was barred from a night club because of headgear rules.

<br /><br /><br />The videos on this site have subtitles (on the page, not in the video, though): http://www.ehow.com/videos.html For example, "How to Drive a Car with Manual Transmission" is at http://www.ehow.com/video_3234_drive-car-with.html

Hmm, it looks like some kind of unstitched fabric that he wears to do seva of the shasters. I guess you could look at it as some kind of sadhu ritualistic thing. Or you could look at it as preventing airborne or other contaminants from affecting the shasters, which, hopefully will be there for hundreds of thousands of years to come and we need to treat them like they will. A few microns of wear every day will add up to a very noticeable .25 mm of wear in only a few centuries. Oils and dirt that we have on our body have a corrosive effect. Just check out a gutka after 5 years of daily use. In general, it's probably a good idea not to get too worked up about maryada at HZR (Hazur Sahib) as it's not going to change. Thanks for bringing this up, though. I learned something I didn't know before.

I guess I misread the article originally. I saw IV = 4th year. Actually, it's VII = class 7 students! Having girls up to 4th wearing those pleated Catholic school mini-skirts is sort of perverted, but this takes the cake. So this principal lady wants to have pubescent girls who are possibly having to deal with some difficult bodily situations forced to wear skirts! Mini, at that. Not to mention the fact hair on the legs is growing at that age, and I would suspect in that sort of Angrez environment girls would be facing peer pressure to shave their legs. It only takes a few girls from non practicing families to shave their legs and then make fun of those who don't. Have a look at this picture of girls from the school sitting trying to do kirtan in mini-skirts lol (scroll down a little for the pic): http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070518/jplus1.htm#11 The skirts are stretched to the limit as they've been pulled forward trying to (barely) cover the girls' legs. Totally unbelievable. As a side note, check out the permanently attached sewed-on "chunnis", lol.

Apne (so-called "our people") are worse Angrez's (Englishmen) than the English! As for the jeans-wearing Amritdharies: Lol. Props to the school principal for trying to go to the lowest level. Is this the way she runs her school? (Rinky threw a spitwad at the teacher, why can't I?) Seriously, though, as long as the salwar-kameez is generally matching school colours, the principal is just making a problem where there is none. By the way, what's the point of uniforms again? Keeping order in the school, allowing poorer kids to not have to compete with expensive brand names, minimizing sexual and other distractions, right? Also, I bet if she's saying this, she also would have a problem with Sikh boys wearing turbans before the designated year in which they're supposed to stop wearing kiddie patkas.

Care to post a picture of what you're talking about?

Yes, hindu authorities always move against Sikh killers, which world you living in. Just remember tytler, sajan, kps. bkand brother, you've provided a viangmei (sarcastic) slap, which I am grateful for, but hopefully someone familiar with the situation can provide the information we're looking for (whether the civil authorities were moving against this man). We need this information to determine the justifiability of this move in accordance with Sikh ethics as defined by Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji. (It is justifiable to pick up the sword after all means have been exhausted. -- Zafarnama http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Zafarnama) By a simple corollary, if all other means have not been exhausted, direct action is haram (prohibited).

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that. Were the civil authorities moving against him? (Was this the reason he was going to the courts?)

"He was posted as patwari in canal department," By the way, there's nothing to say that this case has anything to do with the ongoing Sikh/Sirsa struggle. All we know that happened is that some patwari (land registration official) was killed. For all we know, this could have something to do with a land dispute that was unfavourably settled or something else completely unrelated. Since there are plenty of Sirsa followers, not every Sirsa person who is robbed, killed, or has something else happen to him had it happen because he goes to the dera.

I'm trying to figure out what kind of 'surma' kills a random misguided follower of the Sirsa leader. It would have been one thing to give a adequate response to the bodyguard that killed a Sikh in Bombay, just picking off somebody who goes to or at sometime went to the dera is stupid and wrong and anti-Sikh and anti-God.

It's amazing that a fire reduced the whole building to ashes within minutes! What was it made of, matchsticks? I thought most schools are made of brick or cement blocks.

There are untold numbers of domains in the creation, but that doesn't mean they are in the same universe as us. I'll try to elaborate later.

OK, makes sense. At least the titles are better than those on SikhAwareness: Vada Jathedar | Vadi Jathedarni | Puran Sevadar | Big Honcho. Lol.

It looks like you changed the look again. The one you had yesterday was great. This one looks washed out. And the text is light grey. I know every cool website eschews black, but you could just do a light black or a dark grey. Also the "My Profile/My Settings box" top left seems to intrude into the Reply box if you have your text size increased. It didn't with the style you had yesterday.

How about some pics of the Sikh Channel bibi, anybody?

Also, as to the specific question of Mughal wealth and bank robbery: The Mughal wealth was all looted anyway. The banking system is just pure deception and thievery. The Federal Reserve is owned by member banks, which are private. The Bank of England is a private bank. In India, Indira Gandhi nationalised the all the banks. With banks in govt. control, deposits in Punjab would be used to fund industry in other states. The robbery hurt the government that was using peoples own money to fund a genocide against them. If you say, well then just don't make deposits in banks, the GOI made keeping cash of more than a half lakh (50,000 Rs.) illegal. Yeah, they thought of everything. Nothing in this post is meant to encourage people to rob banks or anything else immoral.