Khalistan

[ravindersidhu]

You Say

I agree that it will be difficult to find the leaders that will bring inspiration but when you say that khalistan is forgotten/not spoken of in India, you must realise that I never believed that Sikhs in India would build or help us get Khalistan. . . I believe it will be won by the Sikhs outside of India because they are much more passionate about it.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

If we look back at our history

Guru Arjan said if a fight for freedom is to come, sikhs must prepair for it, each sikhs must own a horse and know how ti ride it, and he asked some sikhs to get into that trade buying selling horses,

Guru Hargobind asked all able bodied sikhs to enlist in his army, and encouraged offerings ion the form of weapons or horses

so did Guru Gobind Singh Ji

but contrary to that you want to liberate ppl who have no wish to be liberated

without inspiring them without their consent, with them thinking of u as anti-national you will give them khalistan

that is what i understand from what you have written...

Bul Chuk Maaf

but sikhs in india r no short on compassion

how many sikhs in the UK have died in the previous struggle for khalistan or how many have been humiliated for it

or how many answered questions to the police who knocked doors in the middle of the night

khalistan is only possible if you can inspire sikhs, for that you must first bring them back to their tradition and remind them of their religious duties

and let me tell you another thing

i'm saying to not just to manmohan kaur but all those who say we will do this in khalisthan, this will be in khalisthan this will not be in khalisthan

How many of you are going to be at the political front, or how many of you are going to be personally involved in its liberation,

Its very questionable if you will have any say in it at all? or how much involvement you will have, and to be here and be a khalistan activist is more challenging then being outside india and talking of it, here each days survival will be an acheivment, and being in the UK or the US you can have a sound sleep at night

we living in india are also sikhs

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"we living in india are also sikhs"

really, article 25 of indian constitution says your hindus. Your marriage certificate says your hindus.

And remember Kartar singh sarabha came from california to fight. And many singhs from Canada and America did fight in the dharam yudh Morcha of the 80s. Your living in your brahman dominated INdia and your thinking is clouded to the point where it makes no sense to argue with you. You live in a country where the woman who destroyed akal takhat sahib and attacked 48 other gurdwaras has an airport named after her (Indira Gandhi INTL Airport). Why don't we name Amritsar Ahmad Shah Abdali nagar?! Man your a slave and you don't ven know it. It is sad but most sikhs in India are like you, that's why when people say man so many people are leaving Punjab for the West, i say good because when they come here they realize what INdia really is.

[ravindersidhu]

if its penned down that a sikh is a hindu, that dosn't make me hindu

the majority always finds its way faster, kartar singh sarabha came from the US to fight coz he believed in it and he acted upon it, but to believe in something and not to act upon it..... is that the righteous action of a true sikh. I don't think so

and the majority believes in her and not in sant bhindranwale, very few believe in him being right in doing all he did, many believe that he was responsible for the killing, and also for the 4 dead bodies found in the drain coming out of the golden temple.

so the way ppl see it is that indra gandhi brought an end to it all,

sant jarnail singh bhindranwale is nothing to them.

if you can anyway help bring awareness to indian sikhs that he was not a villan, I would be greatful to you for all my life

and have u heard of the term the british came up with 'hindu-sikh'

[ravindersidhu]

and what is the ratio of the indian sikhs against the sikhs coming from UK canada or US taking part in this khalistan struggle or the dharam yudh morcha,

and if a sikh comes here to participate either of the 2 struggles his family back home is safe, but what abt the indian sikh,

and how many innocent Uk canadian or US sikhs have been killed in the struggle under fake encounters,

or how many have had militants come in for shelter

how many have been kidnapped for extortions

in punjab all this was very common

8 ppl were kidnapped from my village at one instance, none were abused by the militants, but they were kidnapped

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"how many have been kidnapped for extortions

in punjab all this was very common"

well that is your beautiful india brother, in real democracies that doesn't happen. but you said india is all better now so if sikhs asked for khalistan why would the gov't kidnap anyone, oh yeah BECAUSE INDIA HAS NOT CHANGED! aND YOU SAY NO PEN CAN MAKE YOU A HINDU WELL BUDDY COUNTRIES ARE BUILT ON LAWS AND REGULATIONS, LIKE FRANCE SAYS NO TURBANS, SO WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO SAY OH DOESN'T MATTER IF FRENCH LAW SAYS NO TURBANS I CAN STILL WEAR ONE! THE CONSTITUION IS LAW BUDDY, AND THE LAW SAYS ANAND KARAJ IS FALSE, SIKHS ARE HINDUS. THINK ABOUT IT.

[S1ngh]

Since going through 9 pages

This post is to RSidhu...

I will be very straight forward with you here. Veerjee, I think you have some kind of hatred against NRI sikhs or maybe jealous from your brothers and sisters who are living outside of India. You also don't want any non-resident sikhs to guide you guys back in India and thats very fair and i support that argument. I hate ppls who shout a lot on internet but do nothing in reality (like helping out in camps and other social events). I also see that you do agree that very bad stuff happened to us during late 70's and early 80's but the situation is that you don't want the whole time to come again as you feel there's no need for that in current modern punjab or india. You feel that the current punjab is best and there's no visible discrimination against sikhs in any part of India. Iam gonna post this reply in two parts. Non-Sikh Viewpoint and Sikh Viewpoint

1) Non-Sikh Viewpoint

Current Punjab? Is it what Sikhs,hindus,christians need ? Economy is HELL, no jobs (thats the reason sikhs started going abroad). Giving out free electricity is the ONLY STUPIDEST THING ANY IGNORANT Person can do. By that you do have the idea how backward the majority of farmers and Punjabi residents are. Did you notice by that free electricity cheap campaign damaged the whole water level issues of punjab state ending up farmers loosing their crops and by that they end up having huge debt and sadly they choose to end their life. Saying Free electricity is like saying "Come and chop my future generation heads off". I wonder if California PG&E gonna offer free electricity <_< . Besides jokes, Punjab lost their water, Youths are jobless, Porn theaters are up lately and you literally feel ashamed seeing dirty posters up on PUBLIC WALLS. Male, female ratio of Punjab is terrible in Punjab history. All jobs are given to Banglore or other states but all punjabis are left with nothing but few textile industries in ludhiana area and btw all labor of those industries are immigrants bhaiiyas of UP. Kids Bunk out of high school and goes to watch movies and college students are busy in doing drugs, ragging, watching girls at the gate (khalsa college). Is this the place where a mature educated punjabi family would like to raise their child? i know i wouldn't. Sometime you have to take off the black govt provided sunglasses and see the real stuff happening around you.

2) Sikh Viewpoint

The reason why i support different country concept is because i want to see the government system runs the legal and pure way (at least try to). Don't worry about facts and so on.. as i lived in that region and i can tell you the vast differences between "Current" Punjab and any other civilized country. Sikhs are good in Punjab? Maybe they are and maybe they are not. But i will end this part in very short form. Government of India and some citizens of india do not like Sikhism religion as they fear that if they don't suppress us then their religion figure will go down significantly, thats the reason why we see no sikhs name mentioned in history books and not giving proper credits to sikh community. Besides that we see sardar jokes on cell phones, emails and then on huge screen in theaters of India proudly sponsored by Bollywood who starts every movie of having a OM or Ganesha or some hindu religion introductory statement. If we lift the visa restriction to punjab residents to come to USA, you know 75% of punjab will be empty. Think what the reasons are? Think without being baised !

Anyway before i go more out of topic, i would like to say that punjab now is whole different than what it was 20 or 30 years go and it will destroy sikh culture in future by recruiting more and more sikh youths into Mona paan.

[Khalsa_starr]

"how many have been kidnapped for extortions

in punjab all this was very common"

well that is your beautiful india brother, in real democracies that doesn't happen.  but you said india is all better now so if sikhs asked for khalistan why would the gov't kidnap anyone, oh yeah BECAUSE INDIA HAS NOT CHANGED!  aND YOU SAY NO PEN CAN MAKE YOU A HINDU WELL BUDDY COUNTRIES ARE BUILT ON LAWS AND REGULATIONS, LIKE FRANCE SAYS NO TURBANS, SO WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO SAY OH DOESN'T MATTER IF FRENCH LAW SAYS NO TURBANS I CAN STILL WEAR ONE!  THE CONSTITUION IS LAW BUDDY, AND THE LAW SAYS ANAND KARAJ IS FALSE, SIKHS ARE HINDUS.  THINK ABOUT IT.

90234[/snapback]

Let's just admit it Hindu's, sikhs, and muslims are guilty of all sorts of bad things lets not point fingers and just accept the fact that each religion at one point or another had done something wrong. Nuff said, now we should be dealing with today and for the future. Instead of looking back in the past. If we keep on blaming each other, we will never get Khalistan...

[ravindersidhu]

kidnaping for extortions, i was refering to the militants,

I do agree there r a few amendments to be made in the constitution

and i do not hate NRI sikhs, but some of u r seriously living in 1984,

but all you in this forum, i look upon u as my friends and brothers and i'm maybe agruing but I'm not fighting you

but i feel too much resentment/anger in some replies posted by a few.. not all, just a one or two, maybe i have deserved it.

for the first time someone had refered to the actual problem, i am refering to S1ngh ji

but sikhs do immigrate sue to unemployment, i myself would goto punjab if i could fin work there, but other then chandigarh(which is starting to get conjeste) i can't find work there

free electricity was a ridiculous thing aimed at fooling the illeterate farmers

so there is a problem, i agree.. but we should try to get these things changed

even mark tully has said in his book that hindu practices find their way in rituals and practices of other religions,

and its happening to sikhism, we need a figure like sant jarnail singh to bring our ppl togeather, if we do, getting article 25 changed would not be a challenge

or else we should move towards a more difficult goal

harnessing hatred and ager will not get us anywhere.

[jassi]

1984 was unjust to the sikhs no doubt, but u see that time is gone, sikh and hindu comunity is very well integrated in delhi, and thats how it is almost all over north india,

I have seen these khalistan websites,

had i seen all this in early 1980's i would have perhaps agreed and approved of the idea, but now that is in the past, way in the past,

its actually a funny thing that people not living in punjab want it to be a seperate country

88569[/snapback]

[jassi]

1984 was unjust to the sikhs no doubt, but u see that time is gone, sikh and hindu comunity is very well integrated in delhi, and thats how it is almost all over north india,

I have seen these khalistan websites,

had i seen all this in early 1980's i would have perhaps agreed and approved of the idea, but now that is in the past, way in the past,

its actually a funny thing that people not living in punjab want it to be a seperate country

88569[/snapback]

91815[/snapback]

veer ravinder singh, u said, " that is in the past, way in the past."

but jo kauman aapan itihaas bhula den, oh kadey ni wadhdian phuldian.

te baaki rahi gal , tussi keha,funny thing, people not living in punjab want it to be a seperate country.

acha je tussi itihaas paria hai, te tuhanu pata hona, banda singh bahadur de time vi singh lakhi jangal jande rahe ne. te eh na bhulna , jo bahar rehnde ne, oh vi punjab ton hi aaye ne.

baaki tussi aap samajdaar ho.

jaida bol giya te maaf karna.

waheguru ji ka khalsa , waheguru ji ki fateh.