Homosexuality in Sikhism

[kiran_k 0]

WJKK WJKF

Hi everybody, im new here.

Im doing an extensive research coursework thing in Religious studies AS level and obviously i ve chosen sikhism. so far i have covered most subjects well but when the topic of homosexuality came up, i realised i knew nothing.

So i was wondering if anyone could tell me what the view on homosexuality is?

Thanks so much

Kiran x x

[DhadiMania 11]

the view of being gay in sikhi.

interesting

lets look at for

well, the gurus talked alot about being equal, and now havent gays become the new untoucables? therefore, it should be allowed.

2. sexuality is not a choice

3. just because your gay, doesnt mean you have to have s*x, you can be gay, but none of that.

4. does god look at them as inferior? and if he does not (because it says equality all the time), then why should we? we all have the same mission in life and that is to be mukhat. a gay guy can be religious as well.

a very weak points yes.

lets look at against

1. anand karaj, why with MAN AND WOMAN. when at the time, being gay in the gurus times was around?

2. got to have little khalse :e: . cant do that with your own sexuality ji

3. you look at the creation stories of adam and eve, it states clearly god made adam for eve, and not adam for steve.

4. the jathedar of the akal takhat, joginder singh vedanti has said gays in sikhi is a no no.

5. would you like your children to be gay? why/why not

i request this topic to be under firm control of the admins. many types of this topic have been asked, and it leads to an SGPC style fight (the only difference is that this is an SGPC style fight on the net).

gustaphi maaf

[kiran_k 0]

hey, thanks for your reply, many of the things you used in the for argument, i have considered in my cwork already but i didnt really have much against it. so thats helped.

i personally do not have anything against homosexuals, so if my child was gay, it wouldnt make a difference to me.

kiran x x

[Guest rsingh]

well some people will look at the subject of Sex and say it is only to be done as it were for reproductive perpose, as its kaam. one of the 5 vices and therefore can only take place between two people of the opposite sex.

In sikhi we look at marriage as binding 2 souls forming a union and becoming 1. another thing why Sikhs would see it as wrong and against Sikhi is because Akaal Takath has said the homosexuality isnt acceptable.

maaeiaa kaam viaapiaa samajhai naahee gaavaar ||

Engrossed in Maya and sexual desire, the fool does not understand.

I have very little to no knowledge to none at all, i suggest refference to gurbani. www.sikhitothemax.com

i swear theres an old thread somewhere, maybe someone can find it?

[sher_panjabi 12]

Sikhs see all people as the sons and daughters of Vaheguru.

Some religions call people "evil" and that they are born "sinners"

No-one is "evil"... our actions and the consequences of our actions can be "evil" or "bad"

Guru Nanak's House is open to all.

No-one will ask your occupation, what you do for a living, what your mind thinks, what actions you do at night or whether you have murdered someone when entering a Gurdwara... a Gurdwara is open to all without discrimination.

A "homosexual" can take Khande-Pahul Da Amrit. We take Amrit because we love Guru Ji, when we take Amrit we give our head to Guru Ji... we don't put conditions "I will only take Amrit if i am allowed to fantasy, sleep or marry a person of the same-sex"...

When we take Amrit we surrender our mind, body and soul to Guru Ji - that is giving our head to the Guru. "do as you please with me guru ji - i live and die for you."

We take Amrit to get help and support - and therefore if someone has issues with homosexuality, then as stated in the earlier post they should get the help of Amrit, and hold the hand of the Guru, grabbing hold of the Guru's Feet (Gurbaani).

Our mind thinks all sorts... we see so many images... we are fed so many thoughts by the people we talk to, see and hear.

However the key is to Control our thoughts and not be drowned in them. If someone fantasies about the same sex or even the opposite sex or any other thoughts of whether desire/lust, anger, attachment etc.... then if we are "Sikhs"... we will acknowledge that we are useless, and that we are "nothing" and that Vaheguru is "everything".... surrendering ourselves and putting our hands up and saying "hey, my mind thinks silly things, my body is influenced by mind which wanders.... but Guru Ji i need your help... i know nothing, you know everything."

Labelling people as "homosexuals" kind of makes things worse (i personally believe) because once you are labelled it is a self-fulfilling prophecy... u say "hey i am gay" - so you start to identify as being gay, then act more like that label and then start justify... so from your mind wandering (effect of the illusion of Maya) we make it concrete.

Instead we should identify ourselves as a Sikh of the Guru, the Slave of Vaheguru.... then identifying ourselves always as this, we can strive to become like this and with Guru's help we can rise above the false illusion of life, and realise the True Reality (thats the stage of Sach Khand).

As Sikhs we believe in living in the Hukam of Vaheguru - which includes accepting the Laws of Nature.

.... if you do anything contrary to the Laws of Nature then you get the reaction to that....

1) Deforestration and pollution = effects of Global warming (floods, droughts, and rising sea level)

2) Feeding cows and pigs MEAT = the cause of Mad Cow Disease (BSE, CJD) and foot and mouth disease (you have heard about this in UK).

etc

Laws of Nature are that man and woman are to mate.... going contrary to this you will give the reaction and slap in the face from Nature.

This is what I was taught in A-Level Ethics:

1/ (Male) Homosexual sex (i don't wish to describe it - but i assume you know what i am on about) is biologically damaging to that area of the body - over penetration leads to bleeding and the damage of the tissue in that area. Therefore our bodies are not built for it.

2/ HIV, AiDs and other diseases

3/ Socially - Homosexuals tend to go opposite to Hetrosexual culture... e.g. homosexuals generally tend to have more partners, not wish to marry etc... this is socially and health-wise not good.

4/ Homosexual cannot be Universally viable - because then the human race would cease to exist... therefore if it is "right" then it cannot be a "universal right or good" thing because it can only be a minority thing... but that doesnt make sense if you are claiming homosexuality is good and that there is nothing wrong with it.

If i am talking utter waffle or have said anything Manmat (contrary to Gurmat) then please forgive me.

[Gupt daasan daas 25]

straight up

sexual desire is used to repordoduce

to make babis

thas it

being gay is not allwed in sikhi

that doesnt mean we hate em,lets burn em thing

let them get married in courts

court marrige doesnt matter,it has nothing to do with vaheguru je

a real marrige is under dharm, who cares bout world courts

if they coem to gurughar and wanna get married, no, that wud defeat whole prupose of marrige

dont hate em, if they wanna get married in court, ok, doesnt affect anyone or violate anyones rights

even thought it isnt right

if they wanna get married in gurughar, naw

bhula chuka maf

[Inder 84 0]

I agree with Gupt Daasan daas Bhaji,

I have nothing against Homosexuality myself as I work with a lot of them in the NHS, but it is forbidden in Sikhi.

Bhull chukh maff karna

Inder Kaur

Gurfateh Jio

[Ambrosia 3]

Laws of Nature are that man and woman are to mate.... going contrary to this you will give the reaction and slap in the face from Nature.

4/ Homosexual cannot be Universally viable - because then the human race would cease to exist... therefore if it is "right" then it cannot be a "universal right or good" thing because it can only be a minority thing... but that doesnt make sense if you are claiming homosexuality is good and that there is nothing wrong with it.

Just a thought, a question, an exploration... of sorts:

Could we assume, 'hypothetically' that (maybe) humans went contrary to nature by:

a- Overly reproducing (taking over...)

b- Becoming so defensive (its understandable) over our self-preservation, that we have caused most of our natural enemies to either cease to exist, are going under extinction, cures to diseases with vaccines and whatnot...

c- With urbanization, and technology stuff... have killed entire forests all over the world, animals are scarce and kept herded and used like slaves in some parts of the world... la la la

That... these types of factors have lead to a huge imbalance in the Earth's homeostatic state.

If this is True... then according to the first quote above, Mother Nature, will do as it sees fit to regain a natural balance (a 'slap in the face'). If so, what are things mother nature could do?

a- Create more diseases that will spread easily and are uncurable at the moment, or make older ones stronger super-viruses.

b- Natural Disasters like Tsunamis, Tornados, Starvation out of lack of crops and whatnot, volcanos, la la

c- Create humans who have no wish to reproduce, or cant, or are homosexual...

ITS not that they are lower, Not at all! All is equal. It is not that they are better or worse or anything! But just another peice of the puzzle that makes Mother Nature go about her Job...

That do you think....

?

[Ambrosia 3]

Something i forgot to add there...

The human race wont cease to exist because there are some homosexuals. The human race would however cease to exist if there are too many humans on earth that there arnt enough food and stuff for all of them.

[Bhajneet 1]

Sikhs see all people as the sons and daughters of Vaheguru.

91539[/snapback]

just wanted to note that in God's "eye," so to speak, we are all girls, because we are all His soul-brides.

I think we've covered the subject on humans all being equal, so I won't go there.

I do wanna say though, that if we had Gays in the sangat, that would be a very bad bad BAD thing.

The reason that the girls sit on one side and the guys sit on the other is so that the guys don't "mess" with the girls sitting next to them, in which case they would be furthered from God.

If homos are in the same place... i mean... its gonna be a distraction...

[Khalsa4ever 5]

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

Actually, its been documented (i believe) that in the original darbaars of the gurus, families used to sit TOGETHER: ie: no guy/girl separation.

Bhul Chuk Maph

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

[DhadiMania 11]

I do wanna say though, that if we had Gays in the sangat, that would be a very bad bad BAD thing.

i am not sure who wrote this, but there was someone (well a group) of gay gursikhs who do mass loads of paath (was it you Singh who said this).

anyway, they dont bother coming to gurdwara because they may be actually be beaten up.

remember, dharam raj will not call upon you and say "ah bhai sahib, you have done alot of paath, and your straight, you are mukath now."

he wont say "bhai sahib, lots of paath, sewa, just one thing, your gay, now dont look at me in that way or you wont get mukti. come to think of it, your gay, so chaurasi for you again!"

regards to the above, even if there were no gays in sangat, people will still be eyeing each other up. gay or not gay. you'll still have the 5 vices whereveer you go, and the mssion is to kill them in one life.

The reason that the girls sit on one side and the guys sit on the other is so that the guys don't "mess" with the girls sitting next to them, in which case they would be furthered from God

would you say that for langar? where girls and boys sit together? (well used to in the old days, i think there are some gurdwaras that do this still).

vedanti has said gays is wrong. but its law of nature, the sunrises, the sunsets, man cannot stop it, even if he tried. similarly, your either born gay or your born straight (some cases bisexual). it is said that the reason why one is gay is because in many joons they were of a different sex (so a girl you is a lesbian was a boy in so many of her previous janams) however, now a girl, she has got used to what she liked in the previous janam, hence some of what you did and liked in previous janam follows you into a current janam.

i am not saying its good to be gay, nor am i saying its wrong

gustaphi maaf

[Bhajneet 1]

I was just referring to the rehats, for those. Sorry, didn't know peeps would get so mad.

[Gupt daasan daas 25]

people think its natural but it isnt

bbe careful not everything scince tells u is right

its mostly guesses

so, while the kids a baby, he gets kaam by looking at guys?

half of the guys make a decision to go gay when their like 40]

it aint natural

its a decision

this is kaljug, wat u except

bhula chuka maf

[sher_panjabi 12]

" beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

attraction = illusion

some of us get trapped in the beauty of food, some of us get trapped in the beauty of clothes, for others its the beauty of men or beauty of women which they get caught in.

"Jio supnaa ar pekhnaa aise jag kau jaan. en mai kachh saacho nehee naanak bin bhagvaan"

"Recognise the world just as a seeing a dream. Nothing is true in it, O Nanak, apart from God alone."

Marriage to opposite sex = benefits:

1/ Balance Kaam

2/ Have kids (who will look after you and the Panth <_< )

3/ Spiritual partner - help you in Sikhi and following Guru's Hukam

4/ Physical partnership in life - women's virtues + man's virtues = advantage

Appreciate the world and everything but don't get caught into it.

Homosexuals to my understanding get caught up in the beauty of man/women (their own sex) - which = illusion of Maya

... not end of world... illusion of Maya is destroyed through:

1/ Gurbaani & Naam Simran

2/ Saadh Sangat & Sewa

3/ Waheguru's Kirpaa

We can either feed our illusion or we can try to get away with it. Feeding the illusion = through illicit films, television programmes which feeds images, sounds and thoughts to our minds... through listening to others talk about illicit things etc

Destroying it = hanging around with good Sadh Sangat, keeping in a spiritual environment, feeling Guru Ji and Waheguru's presence always